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Undis Samba Member
Joined: October 24, 2006 Posts: 1396 Location: Riga, Latvia & Sydney, Australia
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Posted: Fri Feb 12, 2016 3:27 am Post subject: Re: A VW 39 heading for restoration after a museum fire |
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There are many more differences between a '38 and a '39 than between a '39 and a regular KdF Wagen. The VW38 was entirely hand-built where the '39 was put together with stamped panels. Also all the quirky differences of the '38 were not carried over to the '39. In other words it was a production ready car. I don't know if this is a blessing or a curse because as the VW38 panels were originally hand built it was relatively easy to replicate them for the VW38/06 by doing exactly that - making them by hand. In case of this '39 the guys will have to reproduce the stamped look or use actual KdF stuff as this would be the closest. |
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PatterBon Samba Engine Connoisseur
Joined: September 27, 2008 Posts: 3446 Location: Copperas Cove, TX
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Posted: Sun Feb 21, 2016 1:06 pm Post subject: Re: A VW 39 heading for restoration after a museum fire |
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Did they still use the nitro cellulose paint that was used on the VW38? If i remember right, the paint took a really long time to cure and I could only imagine they had a different type of paint when the cars went into full blown production. _________________ PNW Dub Folk & Kitsap dub Folk (KdF)
Austin Aircoolers VW Gang
2020 Ford F-150
1973 Standard Beetle
1969 Cessna 172K Airplane
1959 Karmann Ghia
US Army CH-47 Chinook Helicopter Repairer |
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pastellgreen Samba Member
Joined: January 06, 2012 Posts: 1049 Location: Germany
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Posted: Mon Feb 22, 2016 2:33 am Post subject: Re: A VW 39 heading for restoration after a museum fire |
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I have heared also that there was a point before war or during the war, where they switched over to Kunstharzlack (one-component synthetic resin). During the VW38 series, they had one body for experiments with dip coating, it was a beige car, they used Kunstharzlack for technical reasons (Kunstharz was based on Alkyd resin at that time). It was pretty much cheaper than nitropaint as on the 3806 and easier to handle with. I once met a german artwork restorer, she had written her dissertation on the paintsystems of early cars. During her research in archieves of Porsche, she has found out much about the paint systems of the early prototypes of KDF and Porsche. She told me that they used Kunstharz for the VW38 or 39 series at a very early point, as nitro would have been to much expensive and complictated for a series, even a small series. We also have to remember that at this time, they worked under hard time pressure. |
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Maddel Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2013 Posts: 935
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Posted: Mon Feb 22, 2016 5:19 am Post subject: Re: A VW 39 heading for restoration after a museum fire |
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Nico1981 wrote: |
... I once met a german artwork restorer, she had written her dissertation on the paintsystems of early cars... |
A bit off topic but do you have any info about the exact title of this dissertation?
I searched the web to no avail... |
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pastellgreen Samba Member
Joined: January 06, 2012 Posts: 1049 Location: Germany
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Posted: Mon Feb 22, 2016 10:40 am Post subject: Re: A VW 39 heading for restoration after a museum fire |
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I was wrong, it was not her dissertation but her diploma thesis. I don't know the title, but you may ask her. It's Gundula Tutt, she is well known as artwork restorer in the historical car scene, she is the first adress for doing real restorations on car painting, especially early cars from the motorsport area before WWII.
Her homepage: http://www.omnia-online.de/ |
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Maddel Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2013 Posts: 935
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Posted: Mon Feb 22, 2016 10:36 pm Post subject: Re: A VW 39 heading for restoration after a museum fire |
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Nico1981 wrote: |
I was wrong, it was not her dissertation but her diploma thesis. I don't know the title, but you may ask her.
It's Gundula Tutt, she is well known as artwork restorer in the historical car scene,
she is the first adress for doing real restorations on car painting, especially early cars from the motorsport area before WWII.
Her homepage: http://www.omnia-online.de/ |
Perfect, thanks for the info!
To whom it may concern...
Her doctoral thesis: "History, materials and application of vehicle paints between 1900 and 1945"
Find the table of contents here: https://www.dropbox.com/s/oms1b8unobeof8w/ContentsE.pdf?dl=0 |
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pastellgreen Samba Member
Joined: January 06, 2012 Posts: 1049 Location: Germany
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Posted: Tue Feb 23, 2016 2:06 am Post subject: Re: A VW 39 heading for restoration after a museum fire |
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So I was not wrong, it was her diss. Would have been too much work for only a thesis. From the content you see, this written piece is about the theme, we discuss here. As she knows me, I contact her and try to get a whole example. |
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Undis Samba Member
Joined: October 24, 2006 Posts: 1396 Location: Riga, Latvia & Sydney, Australia
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Posted: Fri Feb 26, 2016 3:18 am Post subject: Re: A VW 39 heading for restoration after a museum fire |
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This rare and very important photo was kindly provided by Frank Jung of the Reutter family archive through the Prototyp Museum Hamburg.
In the photo you can see the assembly of VW39 series car. It could even be car #3 for all we know. Picture was taken at the Reutter factory in 1939. PROTOTYP says: "We are just about to reproduce the very special unique rear hood only found on the VW39 cars and shown in this picture. Unfortunately ours was replaced one day."
Yes folks, just have a good look at it. Take it all in. There is plenty of stuff happening in this photo.
Photo courtesy of Reutter family archive and Prototyp Museum Hamburg.
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D-train Samba Member
Joined: January 08, 2007 Posts: 1455
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Posted: Fri Feb 26, 2016 12:48 pm Post subject: Re: A VW 39 heading for restoration after a museum fire |
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That's fantastic!!
Such a bunch of dapper men. Is it known who they are? _________________ shiny paint doesnt make it worth any more |
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splitjunkie Samba Member
Joined: April 04, 2006 Posts: 4095
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Posted: Fri Feb 26, 2016 12:58 pm Post subject: Re: A VW 39 heading for restoration after a museum fire |
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A couple of things I notice are the splices in the upper A pillars and the roof is clamped on so it hadn't been welded on yet. . _________________ Chris
You know, a lot of these scratches will buff right out... Jerry Seinfeld |
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Undis Samba Member
Joined: October 24, 2006 Posts: 1396 Location: Riga, Latvia & Sydney, Australia
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Posted: Fri Feb 26, 2016 3:21 pm Post subject: Re: A VW 39 heading for restoration after a museum fire |
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That’s right Chris about the splices on the A pillars. Of course on the post war, full production cars the roof including the windshield frame and rear window was pressed in one piece. Here they are clearly piecing it together from several parts.
I do think that at this stage in production Reutter was already using press dies for the panels. There must have been a limit in size they could press therefore larger and more complex panels were made in several pieces then welded together and hand finished. It certainly looks that way going by this particular photo.
Looking at the deck lid it looks very much like the VW38 one with its raised hump for the brake/licence plate light. Interestingly there seems to be a ridge across the raised section of the licence plate base. I wonder if this is something that will be flattened later as it makes no sense to have a ridge there. Perhaps it is the joint where the two sides of the deck lid were welded together. The upper lip of the deck lid also looks kind of large. My thinking is that the inner brace still has not been attached. Once that is done the lip will be partially folded over the inner brace and will reduce in size.
The front fenders look stamped. The headlight hole has not been cut out yet.
Speaking of headlights – look at the curious bowl type of object sitting in the trunk. That to me looks like a headlight bucket ready to be installed on the fender. Note the raised hump. That must be there to accommodate the wiring plug for the headlight. On later cars the bucket didn’t have this. There also is what looks like a metal wiring tube attached to the headlight bucket. Going by the orientation of this I’d say this is the left side bucket ready to be welded into the fender. Also I think I can see wrinkles on the headlight bucket – clearly a stamped item.
Such a great photo! |
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ARG 62 Samba Member
Joined: March 26, 2012 Posts: 10 Location: Argentina
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Posted: Sat Feb 27, 2016 12:59 pm Post subject: Re: A VW 39 heading for restoration after a museum fire |
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If those part were stamped... can´t they just find the mold, the matrix and stamp them again? |
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Bruce Samba Member
Joined: May 16, 2003 Posts: 17290 Location: Left coast, Canada
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Posted: Sat Feb 27, 2016 2:11 pm Post subject: Re: A VW 39 heading for restoration after a museum fire |
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The dies would have been scrapped 60+ years ago. _________________
overheard at the portland Swap Meet... wrote: |
..... a steering wheel made from a mastadon tusk..... |
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wcfvw69 Samba Purist
Joined: June 10, 2004 Posts: 13389 Location: Arizona
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Posted: Sat Feb 27, 2016 5:29 pm Post subject: Re: A VW 39 heading for restoration after a museum fire |
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It's too bad VW didn't think to save all the body panel stamps over the years. Yes, it would of been a huge undertaking to store them all. It makes me wonder what happened to the body stamps VW of Mexico used to make the last beetles. I wonder if they were scrapped and melted down.. _________________ Contact me at [email protected]
Follow me on instagram @sparxwerksllc
Decades of VW and VW parts restoration experience.
The Samba member since 2004.
**Now rebuilding throttle bodies for VW's and Porsche's**
**Restored German Bosch distributors for sale or I can restore yours**
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**Restored Porsche distributors or I can restore yours** |
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peter schepens Samba Member
Joined: April 17, 2003 Posts: 1014 Location: belgium Caesars camp
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Posted: Sun Feb 28, 2016 2:47 am Post subject: Re: A VW 39 heading for restoration after a museum fire |
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wcfvw69 wrote: |
It's too bad VW didn't think to save all the body panel stamps over the years. Yes, it would of been a huge undertaking to store them all. It makes me wonder what happened to the body stamps VW of Mexico used to make the last beetles. I wonder if they were scrapped and melted down.. |
That whould have been a HUGE warehouse to stock all the dies... Do not forget, they wear and go out of their range to be accurate... And to press one part, there are severl dies needed if it is a complex part.
I know for sure that the dies for the engine cover of hebmuller are scrapped in the 50's and not late 50's but early... _________________ Zelensis, glassfibre body made in Belgium , disigned and built on a VW platform About 25 body's built.
Hebmuller info wanted for http://www.hebmueller-registry.com/home.html |
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tisius Samba Member
Joined: July 11, 2011 Posts: 1570 Location: Rotterdam,NL (+Chicago,IL)
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Posted: Mon Feb 29, 2016 2:51 am Post subject: Re: A VW 39 heading for restoration after a museum fire |
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ARG 62 wrote: |
If those part were stamped... can´t they just find the mold, the matrix and stamp them again? |
hahaha now that just made me laugh thank you for that awesome moment !
Sure, and then, after restoring the '39 car with the stamped parts using the original VW factory machines from the nineteen-forties, let's just continue to stamp out a bunch of panels for NEW KdF cars .... now that would be something right there ! _________________ drive it like you just robbed the bank
you don't have to be crazy to be into VW's, but it sure helps!!
.... if it ain't dutch, it ain't much! |
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Martin Southwell Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2010 Posts: 986 Location: Bath, England
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Posted: Mon Feb 29, 2016 3:22 am Post subject: They don't make ties like that any longer! |
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Wow - Look at the 'Kipper' tie on the fellow with the white shirt! Along with the car, was this also a prototype? |
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Grant Reiling Samba Slow-Change Artist
Joined: November 28, 2003 Posts: 491 Location: behind the wheel
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Posted: Mon Feb 29, 2016 4:51 am Post subject: Re: They don't make ties like that any longer! |
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Martin Southwell wrote: |
Wow - Look at the 'Kipper' tie on the fellow with the white shirt! Along with the car, was this also a prototype? |
Maybe, but that haircut might be also! |
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splitjunkie Samba Member
Joined: April 04, 2006 Posts: 4095
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Posted: Mon Feb 29, 2016 5:43 am Post subject: Re: A VW 39 heading for restoration after a museum fire |
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Here are some pictures from the period or right after the VW39
These pictures were cropped from pictures originally posted that showed other panels being pressed so these would have been before the factory had been finished.
_________________ Chris
You know, a lot of these scratches will buff right out... Jerry Seinfeld |
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pastellgreen Samba Member
Joined: January 06, 2012 Posts: 1049 Location: Germany
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Posted: Tue Mar 01, 2016 11:20 am Post subject: Re: A VW 39 heading for restoration after a museum fire |
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ESEM in Schwarzenberg is still there, today they are leaded via "KUKA", a well known enterprise in Germany factoring robots for the production.
I would like to know, what they have for panels, parts or machines on their attic!!! |
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