Early Temp Gauge: What is "Normal"?

[borninabus]

long story, short:
cross country customer, 83.5 WBX, A/C, auto.
had som problems crossing I-10 desert; disconnected O2 sensor and continued on.
eventually blew a coolant hose and got towed to me.
new hose, O2 sensor, thermostat, both temp sensors and thorough bleed done by me.
customer has been very thorough and has ticked all the boxes in my normal checklist.
new rad, rebuilt injectors, good vacuum hoses, etc

customer says the temp gauge has always read high.
the low speed fan comes on here:

and it will bring the needle back down to the upper part of the light.

here it is cruising stop and go in town, A/C on:

here it is cresting my "test grade" which consists of about 5 miles of 6-8% grades, A/C on:

question being: is this normal?
ambient temps are mid 80s to mid 90s.
i will be checking some tune-up stuff and rigging up a temp gauge while i patiently await opinions
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88 Van WBX, A/T - 13 JSW TDI 6M/T - 2012 Touareg TDI Sport

[whafalia]

Those look just a bit higher than what I would expect on my 84 before I put in a 10c oil cooler. No A/C on mine which may be some of the difference. The oil cooler drops the gauge quite a bit as long as the van is moving, the early ones have no oil cooler, glad I invested in one,
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84 westie 2.2 w/ digijet, AT

[danfromsyr]

I was just reading this thread on testing the temp gauge for normal operation.
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=464113&highlight=temperature+gauge+resistor

you will want to hit the engine coolant outlet with an infrared temp gun (~$35 iirc) to know what that scaled value really means in numbers.

was the T-stat tested in a boiling pot? they can be slow/faulty out of the box..
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[windnsea]

That actually looks quite normal for a 1.9 with A/C and an automatic trans in AZ. IIRC, I put in the radiator fan switch/sensor from a later 2.1 as they cut in at a lower temperature.

Stay cool!

[t3 kopf]

[borninabus]

thanks all!

i am currently pluming in a water temp gauge (temporarily) to see what the gauge readings actually mean.
i have an IR gun and tested both the old & new Tstats in 87c water

thanks for the suggestions on the oil cooler and rad fan switch, both sensible upgrades.
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88 Van WBX, A/T - 13 JSW TDI 6M/T - 2012 Touareg TDI Sport

[borninabus]

well, i got 97c on the IR gun @ the temp sender at this gauge reading:

i am more than happy with that

i will pass on the recomendations and send them on their way.
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88 Van WBX, A/T - 13 JSW TDI 6M/T - 2012 Touareg TDI Sport

[Ahwahnee]

Yeah - those gauges pictures look high to me but, as noted, could be the gauge or sender so a check with an IR or mechanical thermometer is in order.

Mine does not get that high going up Mt Lemmon (similar to your test grade which sounds like Mingus Mountain). Typically the AC is off when climbing but the needle scarcely gets above the LED.

I guess we all hope it is just a lying gauge but you say "problems crossing I-10 desert; disconnected O2 sensor and continued on. eventually blew a coolant hose..." so it is worth being sure all is well now.

[danfromsyr]

IIRC VW 'adjusted' the 'normal' position of the needle in the later model year vans. to soothe and comfort worried american westy drivers..
to a more normal feeling spot just under the led
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[t3 kopf]

I don't know about all that but ive seen many different gauges from different years show different temps but not consistently
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'90 Carat w/ '95 phase 1 EJ22 OBD2 conversion