69 bay bus "Weld Busler"

[Yarkle]

Ok, so after doing alot of searching, it looks like, on a 69 at least, there is NO grommet coming from the lower front apron fort he main harness.

So, after months of little or no activity, we got some work done on the bus! More than id expected, less than id hoped.

Caleb was home from college, but as a mailman, i was pretty much buried at work until after the new year, and when i was able to take a week off, he got "the strep throat"

And the brain worms kind of encourage clutter, so it took awhile ot get the garaj somewhat organized, but by the time last thursday rolled around, caleb was ready to work (See, originally i think the bus was supposed to be a young lady trap, but then he found he could catch them in their native habitat, so the bus soemtimes gets put on the back burner)

He was so excited and amazed he couldnt decide which set of goggles to put on:

Last summer, we decided that the main wiring harness had to go. One of the many PO hacks was to splice into it and then reuse the positive battery cable after it was apparently used as a test for a ginzu knife commercial, so it shorted out and burned alot of the wiring.

So we pulled the harness, then scuffed out the major rust, treated it with ospho. and pulled a string with the old harness.

Then I bought my own bus

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=8272498#8272498

and Caleb went to college.

So fast forward until now when Caleb has recovered from his virulent pox..we had a warm spell so the goals were to get the frame where the harness was going to run treated with masterseries and eastwood internal frame coating, put the front end back together (enough to push it out of the garaj) and pull the new harness.

Caleb has on his dust mask cuz he was scraping out some ospho dust...

I take horrible pictures, but alot of the frame looks like this:

but you could tell where we had put on the ospho, alot of it was a kind of grayish, black or greenish color..it looks rusty in this pic but its actually not rusty..plus once he scuffed it a bit with the scotchbrite pad it seemed the rust was gone (not the same area)

so then we went and used foam brushes to lay down some masterseries primer. first coat went on really smooth with cheap foam brushes..but you will be wearign it for a good week or two if you get it on your skin

note the string i used to help pull the wiring harness..much of which is now stuck to the frame

Trucka insists on safety and he didnt want that stuff on him either

The weather continued to cooperate, and the second coat was kind of harder to put on cuz you couldnt really "see your place"..but once it was on it covers really well

incidentally, while i was underneath the bus with the engine out, i took a picture of that rear shock nut that causes alot of problems..Ive been soaking it in kroil in the hopes of getting new rear shocks on

more updates to come..this was thursday and friday of week before last
_________________
Tilda the Mustard Tigress 1973 Squareback (o'''^'''o)

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=771024&highlight=

[Yarkle]

2nd Update for last week.

We spent alot of time fighting mice and just decluttering the garaj, and then got the masterseries chassis black stuff in saturday morning, just in time to apply it..it does NOT go on well with a foam brush, and for the frame, a roller really wont fit.

But it went on alot better with just a regular bristle brush.

It is Waaaay thinner than the silver stuff, so it tends to drip and get on you and the floor alot easier

we did one coat saturday, and one coat sunday, and i forget what else we did.

but two coats covers really good..

I managed to skate out of work on wednesday, as it was almost 50 with the idea of putting on the internal frame coating.. Now...as ive said, either in this or the Urkelgrue thread, ive got the brain worms, so sometimes i dont really think things through, other stuff i overthink. Really, we should have done all of this in the summer, or at the very least i should have done the frame coating stuff first.

Well, it seems to cover pretty good...I had Caleb frog tape up the holes so i could just spray where we couldnt masterseries, but theres alot of little "weep holes"

drippage

and maybe stuff i didnt explain so well as to where iwas spratyign and where i wanted him to tape

blowout

so we got alot of surrealist olive drab colored cloud art on the garage floor, and i kind of looked like i was either turning into the hulk or reverting back to an army man..the stuff DRIPS and it ran down my arms and into my armpit, took a good hour to get clean

Id say the stuff definitely coats well...im sure ill have to re do some stuff in the summer...

but heres a NICE picture of it coating stuff i coudlnt get to with a brush

(once i had the can open, i just kept spraying wether we had treated the outside or not)

and as soon as it hit, it wasnt coming off. by this time, the masterseries had been on for 3 or 4 days, and seems unaffected by it

This was actually Wedensday afternoon, ill update wednesday mornings activities later
_________________
Tilda the Mustard Tigress 1973 Squareback (o'''^'''o)

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=771024&highlight=

[Yarkle]

So, we had removed the dash pod and dropped the steering wheel last summer with the intent of getting the wiring harness pulled last summer, but hope spring eternal. (ignition switch was also a complete hack job, completely covered in blue and yellow wire connector, dammit i hate seeing those)

you know you are in for it when you see these

Anyways, wednesday morning I realized if we were going to get the bus pushed out by saturday evening (Leb goes back to school on Sunday (message from the future, its still in the garaj)), i needed to get the steering column back up)

So we did that..i forgot to take a pic of that, when i pull it apart again ill show you guys this horrid mess. If i remember

Anyways, well over a year ago we started to pull apart the front end, (see earlier pages) and we had spent a few days chasing down grade 10.9 fasteners, etc.

So as Caleb was frogtaping up the holes in the frame and then prepping alot of the stuff weve accumulated i started in with the center pin reinstall and the draglink.

I went back and forth between Tcash's writeup:

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=597889

and Colins:

http://www.itinerant-air-cooled.com/viewtopic.php?t=3165

I had pulled this apart last summer? (or summer before?)

quite frankly i was a little intimidated by it, but then after reading and rereading both tutorials, i just got r done.

Basically, I kind of combines the two different methods..I found Tcash's pressing rig worked better (for me anyways)

Basically i used a scotchbrite pad to clean out the "bore" for any flash rust

then used a hammer and the old pin to start the lower bush

then i built my pressing tool (like TCash's)

sent the lower bush in

(Bentley and Colin and a few other searches turned up put the holes to the front, and my bushings came out with the hole sin the front, so thats how i put them back in)

then refinagled it to do the top bushing

This is where it got a little fuzzy, but you use the thrust washer as a stop so when the thick washer from the top of the tool hits it, the bushing is at the right height..

so with the bushing: during install

sent home

this shows what it looks like with it removed

this is the kit i used..the shoulder on the bolts between old and new was the same, and the seals didnt seem wither hard nor soft, but i heated them up anyways, they were kind of a PITa, but not that bad

I got super confused because Tcash said to assemble it grease cap, seal, then washer,

Colin said grease cap, dab some grease on it, then put washer on grease cap and put on seal.

then i realized it didnt really matter, because as you assemble it, it basically puts it where it wants to be..

So i put the thrust washer in the grease cap, then popped the big white seal over the top, then slid the center pin

I used a bottle jack to compress the wavy washer. I then used grease to hold the metal washer and the packig washer in and popped it on.

Once i had it lined up, i used the big C clamp to bend over the funky l shaped tab thing. dunno how you could hammer it.

more updates later
_________________
Tilda the Mustard Tigress 1973 Squareback (o'''^'''o)

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=771024&highlight=

[airschooled]

Heeeyyyyyy nice work on the center pin! Those are two of the three fasteners on my car I have never touched. Good on 'ya for getting dirty!

Have you looked into the factory caulking/sealant used around wiring looms and around body panel seams? That may be a solution to your grommet problem.

Robbie
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[Yarkle]

Thanks Robbie! No, i havent gotten that far yet, but it looks like it was some sort of goo on the 73 that dried into the right shape, instead of a grommet.

meanwhile, as i was fiddling with the center pin, i set Caleb to try and bend brake lines..now, i have a HUGE problem bending them, i dunno if its aTBI: concentration thing, or what, but i find them maddeningly frustrating. If I get them bent to the right shape, i cant get them into the Master cylinder. If I can get them into the master, they wont fit right to

well, Ive probably gone through at least 5 lines of each side on the front and messed each one up, and theres probably about 5 grommets stuck inside the frame. Caleb went down to NAPA and got the closest ones in length (for a 69..I think the driver was 2 inches too long and the passenger 4), then went to bending them.

I explained to him that a little longer is OK, cuz you dont have the factory tooling.

Well, first try:

and it was damn near perfect!

I also remembered to take a picture of what it looked like underneath this time before i removed the old lines I had semi installed

TIP:::: when you are trying to fit the grommets through the frame, we found that once you get it tightened down to the master cylinder and the line through the frame, get the line centered in the hole, then pop the grommets on..we found that kind of rotating them made them go in better, (i think he ended up clamping them once we had it center, putting the grommet in, then doing the final bends)

second pipe bent up smooth like butter.

had to fiddle a bit

We ended up using a mirror and a 12 point wrench to get the clamp loosened and tightened (this was a good time to explain why its nice to have a 6 point and a 12 point, at least in 10 and 13mm)

this is only the second brake pipe the kid has ever bent!

_________________
Tilda the Mustard Tigress 1973 Squareback (o'''^'''o)

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=771024&highlight=

[Yarkle]

Friday night:

then i put the new drag link on (the ones form bus depot arent readily obvious they are adjustable, youve really kind of got to reef on them and then they spin easily after that.)

that went on super easy

but it got cold and dark and i realized the damper didnt come with hardware...so we had to go chase that (and i still dont think its on quite right..it doesnt seem to be "lining up")


So saturday morning rolls around, and i think, Ok, we can get this done...

Center pin is done, drag link in, all ive got to do is put the knuckles, tie rods and shocks on the front, grease it, put on the wheels and i can roll it out.

WRONG!

Got the steering knuckles on, then we started running into trouble...

went to torque them down, and realized I was missing this piece of hardware

I thought i had saved ALL of the old hardware, but i just couldnt find it.I lose stuff easily, and im sure it will turn up.

tried using different washers and they all just bent, no matter how thick

Steering damper wouldnt line up right, and the tie rod ends are just spinning in the knuckle and swing arm

The drag link went on so easy I was spoiled..so i figured id stage this picture just so i can get a before and after of caleb taking off the shock a year and a half a go

and putting on the new one before he left for school

(ive actually got the brake clip/steering knuckle and tie rods mysteries fixed, ill explain in the next update, im still a little puzzled about the steering damper, its like its a little "cockeyed" where it bolts to the beam ..on the parts diagram it just shows a serrated washer, maybe it needs a bigger flat washer to "center" or "align" it?)

see this thread i guess, there s no flat washer listed for where it goes to the front beam

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=590940&highlight=steering+damper+hardware
_________________
Tilda the Mustard Tigress 1973 Squareback (o'''^'''o)

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=771024&highlight=

[DenverB]

this thread makes my freaking day. I can't wait to be doing stuff like this with my twin boys.

thanks for the dad inspiration.
_________________
-------
'77 Transporter/camper (Bussy - Reef Blue/Pastel White)
'67 bug (Santos - VW Blue)
'84 Vanagon Westfalia (Pink Flamingo - Pastel White/Pink)
'88 Vanagon GL Westfalia (Frankie Says - Wolfram Gray)
'02 Eurovan Weekender (Green Apple)
'95-'03 Eurovan full campers and weekenders (rental fleet)
'84 -'91 Vanagon full campers and weekenders (rental fleet)
'72 Porsche 914 (Greta - RIP)

www.RockyMountainCampervans.com

[Yarkle]

Denver B, Thanks!

I had hoped to have more done on it by now, but it is what it is.

I grew up in Colorado Springs, you guys definitely have a better ACVW scene than we do.

Last time i was out (a few years ago), i probably saw at least 20 "daily drivers" that were almost as good as trailer queens up here in rusty new england. There was a guy junking several buses and i coudlnt believe it. Theyd easily go for at least a couple grand up here.

Anyways, hope to get something accomplished this weekend, though we got a foot of snow today and more coming

Made my bus look like she has a 'stache

_________________
Tilda the Mustard Tigress 1973 Squareback (o'''^'''o)

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=771024&highlight=

[Yarkle]

So, spent awhile searching for the brake clip/ball joint washer, , but nowheres to be found..im sure ill end up finding them at some point (i lose stuff super easy)..Wildthings pointed me in the right direction and i ended up getting a set from Ken from the Busco.

DONT try using regular washers...the thickest i could get at the hardware store and NAPA just bent before i got anywheres near the 70 plus pounds of torque.

(when i take the old ones off ill post the pics)

then we ran into the issue of the tie rods just spinning as soon as i get the jam nuts on, i tried using the old castle nuts, but they are just spun it too.

so then i researched and discovered SOME tie rods have allen key holes..(thanks SGKENT) and the ones i got from Bus depot do. (Meyle "of Germany", made in Turkey).so as they say in Harry Potter, Mischief Managed (man i fought with those for a long ass time before i gave up and had to quit several times and finally found the "right" search term)

So maybe "nyloc nut spinning on ball joint" will help the next guy

so look here:

and then you can do this

i havent tightened everything down yet, and maybe thats whats causing this, but the steering damper is , i dunno, "cockeyed" on the beam side:

(i know i take crappy pix, sorry)

but see how the bolt is going straight into the beam, but the damper seem to be angled a bit?

So, im thinking:

1. steering damper is bad?

2. theres some weird adjustment i didnt do?

3. Maybe i need to loosen it halfway and loosen it halfway on the swing arm or something?

4. Or use a wider than the damper bushing washer to maybe straighten it instead of just the internal serrated washer?
_________________
Tilda the Mustard Tigress 1973 Squareback (o'''^'''o)

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=771024&highlight=

[lil-jinx]

Maybe put a spacer between the damper and mount,that would move the end of the damper out some,bringing it closer to a 90 degree angle to the bolt,but it would also change the angle on the other end.don't worry too much about it,it's just a shock with not a lot of force/movement.
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https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=620186
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=668799
1974 Bay Westfalia. she likes to be called Ethel.
1968 Dune Buggy
1974 parts bus
A smart man learns from his mistakes,a very smart man learns from other's mistakes.

[airschooled]

I just took the original damper off Big Emma and the bushing was angled from decades of driving like that. Every damper I've installed has had some sort of angle to deal with at one end of travel or the other. If the wheels are off the ground, find the "middle" of the travel (as far as the angle is concerned) and tighten the bolts there. This is similar to shock absorbers, where we don't finish tightening the hardware until the car is on the ground.

Robbie
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[Yarkle]

Lil jinx and Robbie, thanks! Robbie, Im glad you replied cuz i was going to torque everything down before i lowered it. So just the shocks and damper kinda tight till i set it? Torque everything else?
_________________
Tilda the Mustard Tigress 1973 Squareback (o'''^'''o)

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=771024&highlight=

[Yarkle]

HELP! , in a pickle here...went to tighten down the tie rods., Used the allen key to try and stabilize it. The nuts just kept spinning the whole shaft, even stripped out the allen key. (id suggest if you get ones with the allen head, use an allen socket, not a key)

Tried using an allen key easy out and a weird allen key fixer, still stripped it even further. Tried the welding vise grip, turning the steering wheel, clamping with water pump pliers, jacking the swing arms lever, even finally put a narrow set of vice grips onto the threads to try and get the nut off.

Heres the stripped out keyway:

Finally i got one of them clamped down enough to get the nut off, figuring maybe i cross threaded all four or something?

and it came off HARD.

(these were all meyle tie rods bTW)

And i realized i had REALLY stripped it somehow

(this one i just had pushed up with the jack)

this one was the one i had to use the vice grips to hold the shaft enough to get the nut off?:

So i look at the nuts, nothing seems to be amiss (they got dirty coming out, they were clean going in)

I had to use a tie rod puller to get the tire rods of off the swing arm and the knuckles out, so they werent moving in the sockets.

Then i looked closer:

this one wasnt too mangled

but when i went to thread the nyloc nut on it, it just kind of stopped here: its not even hitting the nyloc part

so i went and took my old tyrod and spun one of the new nyloc nuts on it, didnt even clean it, and it went all the way to the nyloc part, finger tight:

(im also bus multii tasking today, when one bus pisses me off i move to the other one for a bit.

any ideas? I bought these tie rods some time ago, could i have just gotten a bad batch or something, or they sent me the wrong nyloc nuts and i just figured they were spinning like everyone says they do and wasnt realize i was destroying them?

the nyloc nuts fit the old tie rod ends, but its like these ones are a different pitch or something, so youd think theyd come with a different pitch nut if thats the case, or did i just mess something up stupidly?
_________________
Tilda the Mustard Tigress 1973 Squareback (o'''^'''o)

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=771024&highlight=

[alman72]

run a die threader on the problem threads? it will confirm/ensure pitch is right anyway

[lil-jinx]

looks to be a mix of standard and metric treads,check them wit a tread pitch gauge,should be one included in any tap and die set,or try put a standard nut on the tie rod ends.Hope the supplier make it right for you,
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https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=620186
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=668799
1974 Bay Westfalia. she likes to be called Ethel.
1968 Dune Buggy
1974 parts bus
A smart man learns from his mistakes,a very smart man learns from other's mistakes.

[Yarkle]

Thanks! ill take them down to the hardware store and check. I never would have thought of that

One of the issues with my TBI problems are i tend to start stuff and then not finish it (usually its more like i start one thing, get distracted, start something else...etc , so these have been sitting around for at least a year and a half, so im not sure where I got them. they were sealed in the box though)

(the solution ive arrived at is im trying not to start any new projects on either bus until i finish what ive already begun or at least bought parts for. TRYing)
_________________
Tilda the Mustard Tigress 1973 Squareback (o'''^'''o)

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=771024&highlight=

[Yarkle]

short answer...YEP, lil jinx you were right..they came out of a sealed meyle box, and sealed baggie, but they were 7/16 nuts. and it just never occured to me i would have gotten the wrong nuts in a sealed box. for BOTH sides

Good thing i gots you guys!

long answer:

so i ordered and received a new set of tie rods today, and i tried to put the nuts on, and they went on to the nylocs finger tight.

then i fought with the other bus for a little bit and then came back to this one, and undid the earlier mistake of losing the washers for the brake clips (i think i put that in the stupid question thread..anyways, couldnt find them, and first tired to use the thickest washers i could get..and this is what they looked like when they came off..doubled up they bent this much at 72ft/lbs

its hard to tell but this is a flat part of the bus:

looking at the parts fiche, it says the correct washers are:

N115301

which are these: (the nutcracker was to hold them while i osphoed them

but they must be for a late bay...

after some fiddling, i got these from mountain bug, part #211 405 349

(shown next to the painted N115301s for comparison, correct part is bigger and with a lip for the brake ring)

heres how they fit:

so i then redid all that and got all four ball joints torqued down to 72 ft lbs with the eccentrics notched as much towards the front as i could get

then i tackled the dreaded tie rod ends.

this is how you should do the adjustable side, with a 5mm allen socket on a ratchet instead of just a key so its doesnt strip (it probably would have stripped with me using 7/16s, but it was noticeably easier)

adjustable side went in super easy.

The non adjustable side doesnt have the allen key AND they have shorter threaded ends. Dunno why, but when i torqued them down there didnt seem to be enough thread showing, but then i compared them to the originals and to the set i ruined, so i guess its just the way they are built.

I ended up using a bottle jack to seat the swing lever end and using a set of water pump pliers on the knuckle end. I tried to funky welding vise grip but just couldnt get it to line up.

Mischief managed!

then i realized i needed a slotted bit for my ratcheting screwdriver to fiddle with soemthing on MY bus, so i went to the creepo depot and checked the nuts against the thread gauge..

7/16

I added 5 pounds for the nyloc nuts, so torqued all four to 27 ft/lb
_________________
Tilda the Mustard Tigress 1973 Squareback (o'''^'''o)

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=771024&highlight=

[lil-jinx]

Happy to see it worked out for you.
Never Stop;Nelson
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https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=668799
1974 Bay Westfalia. she likes to be called Ethel.
1968 Dune Buggy
1974 parts bus
A smart man learns from his mistakes,a very smart man learns from other's mistakes.

[airschooled]

Yeeeaahhhhh way to keep at it!

I don't typically see the allen bit insert on old tie rod ends where I'm just replacing the boot, but a welding clamp vise-grip seems to hold the thing tight enough to get them to tighten on their own accord. I also use a bit of anti-seize on the joints themselves, so when I replace the New Garbage Parts in ten years, they'll come off clean.

Robbie
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[Yarkle]

Ok, boy came home from school this weekend..on wednesday it was like 60 degrees..today it was ten!

We still got some stuff done though, fiddled with the steering dampener using the combined advice of Robbie and Lil-jinx, plus a wider washer, so i felt better about that, adjusted the toe in on the tie rod so the wheels are somewhat straight, rechecked the torque on all the steering components, replaced all of the front end zerks.

Well, the bottom passenger side was mysteriously missing, so i cleaned it out and chased it with one of those funky taps.

One of the mysteries id been trying to solve was the bus came with these stainless/teflon/nylon/kevlar, something brake lines (I cant remember which, but someone on the thing forum had raved about them). As the old lines were really nasty, i just installed them, but they just sat in the clip.

and i didnt like the looks of that..or how they might act without a guide. So i thought of just using some pvc (or whatever it is) tubing, but of course the fitting that would slide in were too big for the clip.

So i cut the tubing so i could just slip it over the line

shrink tubed it

then heated it up to sort of keep it sealed, works great!

(so if you have these lines and want the clip to guide it, this is a nice solution)

Once i got all the zerks in , I had Caleb move the steering wheel slowly from side to side to get a bit more grease in the center pin, once i started seeing grease at the bottom and the top i had him stop and rubber malleted the lower cap in.

Then I just slide the drums and wheels back on (ive got to decide how deep i want to get into that for now, so i just put them on for now, PO supposedly redid the wheel cylinders and bearings but reused the old brake shoes?????)

and started to grease the front end. (I had someplace i had to go this afternoon so the clock was ticking, and the garaj has just enough heat to keep you alive)

Well, we got the passenger side done and I realized i wasnt gonna have enough grease left to do the other side, so I just pulled the tube and thought id just pop in a new one, then had one of my rocket induced dumbassery moments and forgot how to airbleed the gun, and i couldnt get any grease to come out.

Well, i should have just called it quits, but (see this is why soemtimes i make lots of progress, other times, not so much) i decided to unscrew the grease gun and then WHAM! it looke dliek a triceratops had lumbered in and took a huge dump in the garage, so i decided that was enough and let Caleb clean up the mess.

I did have the foresight to dissasemble it on a piece of cardboard, so it was more just the fact that ti looked like a turd than being hard to clean.

So maybe next week ill get the other side greased after i youtube how to load a friggin grease gun (thats whats super frustrating, stuff i should know how to do i just draw a blank sometimes)

and then ill tackle putting the shocks and sway bar on, then decide what I want to do with the knuckles.
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Tilda the Mustard Tigress 1973 Squareback (o'''^'''o)

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=771024&highlight=