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bearwin Samba Member
Joined: December 16, 2004 Posts: 284 Location: san diego,california
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Posted: Mon Jun 22, 2015 1:57 am Post subject: Cb 2280 cam and ratio rocker |
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I will be helping a friend to build his mild 1776 engine, he will be using dual port heads mildly ported stock valves, cb cheater cam, dual 40idf, 1 3/8 headers and muffler
Will the engine benefit if we will add 1.25 rockers? Will it be compatible to the cheater cam?
Thanks! What are the pros and cons? |
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Boolean Samba Member
Joined: January 19, 2012 Posts: 1712 Location: Stockholm
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vugbug68 Samba Member
Joined: June 25, 2006 Posts: 2696 Location: sacramento
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Posted: Mon Jun 22, 2015 9:51 am Post subject: |
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Yeah that cam is pretty small, CB have a bunch of cams for mild small displacement engines.
Any of these cams would be a better choice
http://www.cbperformance.com/searchresults.asp?cat=186
But yes you can run 1.25 rockers with the 2280 _________________ 71 Super - Backroad Thrasher
66 Corvair - Weekend Cruiser
90 4 Runner - Muddin |
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[email protected] Samba Member
Joined: August 03, 2002 Posts: 12785 Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
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Posted: Mon Jun 22, 2015 9:54 am Post subject: |
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the whole purpose of the "Cheater" cam is to retain the stock carb. If you are not going to do that, then there are far better cam options out there. _________________ It's just advice, do whatever you want with it!
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bearwin Samba Member
Joined: December 16, 2004 Posts: 284 Location: san diego,california
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Posted: Mon Jun 22, 2015 10:04 am Post subject: |
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parts are already there, we dont want to spend more to replace cam, my question is, are we just going to leave the cheater cam alone and not install the 1.25 ratio rockers? is it worth the effort of valve geometry adjustment?
thanks |
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Boolean Samba Member
Joined: January 19, 2012 Posts: 1712 Location: Stockholm
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modok Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2009 Posts: 26740 Location: Colorado Springs
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Posted: Mon Jun 22, 2015 4:43 pm Post subject: |
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Stock rockers
I tried it once and the only thing noticeable was more racket.
use a web 218!!! |
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mark tucker Samba Member
Joined: April 08, 2009 Posts: 23937 Location: SHALIMAR ,FLORIDA
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Posted: Mon Jun 22, 2015 5:33 pm Post subject: |
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I guess it would deepend on whoo what where and when and what else you have/doo to it. if it just makes more racquett you might want to find a new line of work |
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modok Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2009 Posts: 26740 Location: Colorado Springs
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Posted: Mon Jun 22, 2015 5:55 pm Post subject: |
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mark tucker wrote: |
I guess it would deepend on |
so how deaf are you?
Vw is a great car for the hearing impaired LOL
cheater is a LOW rpm cam. Tractor.
do tractors need high valve lifts? usually no |
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Boolean Samba Member
Joined: January 19, 2012 Posts: 1712 Location: Stockholm
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Posted: Mon Jun 22, 2015 6:16 pm Post subject: |
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The cheater cam is too tame for the rest of the stuff. Anything that makes it wilder would be a benefit. I guess ratio rockers will not make it an Engle 120, but I would definitely want to try it.
The basic problem is a bad choice of cam. _________________ I strive for perfection. Excellence will not be tolerated!
Build thread here:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=529379 |
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bearwin Samba Member
Joined: December 16, 2004 Posts: 284 Location: san diego,california
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Posted: Mon Jun 22, 2015 6:16 pm Post subject: |
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Will i shorten the pushrods? If yes, how much? Is it worth the effort? Hp gains? |
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vugbug68 Samba Member
Joined: June 25, 2006 Posts: 2696 Location: sacramento
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Posted: Mon Jun 22, 2015 8:54 pm Post subject: |
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You will probably have to shorten the pushrods but its impossible to know how much without doing a mock up first. Worth it? well you have to do the work to set up rocker geometry anyway, so why not use the 1.25's. But that cam doesn't have enough duration to get the power out of a 1776 with 40 idf's _________________ 71 Super - Backroad Thrasher
66 Corvair - Weekend Cruiser
90 4 Runner - Muddin |
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mark tucker Samba Member
Joined: April 08, 2009 Posts: 23937 Location: SHALIMAR ,FLORIDA
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Posted: Mon Jun 22, 2015 9:41 pm Post subject: |
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modok wrote: |
mark tucker wrote: |
I guess it would deepend on |
so how deaf are you?
Vw is a great car for the hearing impaired LOL
cheater is a LOW rpm cam. Tractor.
do tractors need high valve lifts? usually no |
just enough to be able to hear when somebody has a afu valvetrain and has gone off the deepend.witch is usualy when they realy dont have a effing clue as to what there baballing or doing. is that deff enough. |
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Alstrup Samba Member
Joined: July 12, 2007 Posts: 7179 Location: Videbaek Denmark
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Posted: Tue Jun 23, 2015 11:49 am Post subject: |
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Will 1,25 rockers aid in performance with a 2280 cam ?
Answer to that is yes, - if the heads flow decent. The 2280 is a under rated cam in more than one way.
If the heads flow well, the 1,25īs will aid in both hp and torque from about 2500 rpm & up. Also it will extend the power band with about 250 rpm.
Wrt the valve train rattle I kinda agree and then not. I have noticed several times that there is no need to run 0,10/0,15 mm lash with that cam, -. and other cams too (with ally PRīs that is.)
Also, if you set the DCR after the added lift you can gain even more torque.
The claims of 88-95 hp on 1800 cc engines with this cam is not overrated when the engine is done right.
T |
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pedmick Samba Member
Joined: June 24, 2004 Posts: 49 Location: Manteca
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Posted: Sat Mar 06, 2021 6:33 pm Post subject: Re: Cb 2280 cam and ratio rocker |
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I have a 2280 cam and 1.25:1 rockers on my 1968cc single port. I can't stand the valve train chatter. I think I'm going to try 1.1:1 to see if it helps. I can sacrifice the minimal hp gains... |
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Alstrup Samba Member
Joined: July 12, 2007 Posts: 7179 Location: Videbaek Denmark
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Alstrup Samba Member
Joined: July 12, 2007 Posts: 7179 Location: Videbaek Denmark
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Posted: Tue Mar 09, 2021 4:41 am Post subject: Re: Cb 2280 cam and ratio rocker |
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pedmick wrote: |
I have a 2280 cam and 1.25:1 rockers on my 1968cc single port. I can't stand the valve train chatter. I think I'm going to try 1.1:1 to see if it helps. I can sacrifice the minimal hp gains... |
PS. just came to mind. - If you are using the Mazda style adjusters they will aid in valve train noise too. Use the Porsche style instead. _________________ https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=435993 |
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pedmick Samba Member
Joined: June 24, 2004 Posts: 49 Location: Manteca
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Posted: Tue Mar 09, 2021 8:14 am Post subject: Re: Cb 2280 cam and ratio rocker |
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Good call! I am using Mazda style adjusters. I'm never totally convinced that I adjust the lash on the flat part of the ball. I also switched to CB HD aluminum pushrods. I'll take another look at the rocker side clearance...seems to "loosen up" on its own. |
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mark tucker Samba Member
Joined: April 08, 2009 Posts: 23937 Location: SHALIMAR ,FLORIDA
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Posted: Tue Mar 09, 2021 9:52 am Post subject: Re: Cb 2280 cam and ratio rocker |
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I would just tighten the side play to .002"~ .004" and be sure the rocker geo is right or close to right.if using the oe pushrods style tips they can bind in the rocker and cause a false lash setting. I would leave the mazda lash adjusters. and use at least 2 .020" or thicker hard shims on the thrust side of each rocker.shims under .015" should only be used on the non thrust side of the rocker.or between 2 thick shims, and only hardened shims should be used. do not ever use serrated valve spring shims. if you have the spring clips& springs get rid of them. I suppose non hardenend shims can be used on the non thrust side, but I wouldn't unless it was a emergency or testing. |
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Alstrup Samba Member
Joined: July 12, 2007 Posts: 7179 Location: Videbaek Denmark
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Posted: Tue Mar 09, 2021 10:26 am Post subject: Re: Cb 2280 cam and ratio rocker |
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mark tucker wrote: |
I would just tighten the side play to .002"~ .004" and be sure the rocker geo is right or close to right.if using the oe pushrods style tips they can bind in the rocker and cause a false lash setting. I would leave the mazda lash adjusters. and use at least 2 .020" or thicker hard shims on the thrust side of each rocker.shims under .015" should only be used on the non thrust side of the rocker.or between 2 thick shims, and only hardened shims should be used. do not ever use serrated valve spring shims. if you have the spring clips& springs get rid of them. I suppose non hardenend shims can be used on the non thrust side, but I wouldn't unless it was a emergency or testing. |
I go to the tight side if I possibly can. Loose zero to 0,002" _________________ https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=435993 |
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