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metropoj
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Joined: April 23, 2004
Posts: 1343
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 Posted: Mon Jun 22, 2015 5:51 am Post subject: My Crate TiiCo Inline 4 install: 86 Vanagon. |
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High time I got into a documenting (for those interested) my Inline 4 install on my 86 Westfalia.
Coming from the Air Cooled world I shuttered for years into getting into Vanagons and having this thing called 'water' introduced into any VW I had, aside from drinking water ! We needed something a little faster for traveling, some more comfort and the ability to cover some distance because it seemed like less time to travel means we need to step it up a little to get to where we wanted to go.
We picked our 86 carefully. Original owner / paint, a stack of repair bills and history about 4 inches thick, 474,000 kms on the original powertrain, 50,000 of that the van was towed behind a large RV. It was tired but solid. I hate major bodywork !
At 485,000kms it was time to start refreshing things. The engine still ran great but we're hoping to spend less time in the shop and more time with the kids traveling before they don't want to hang around us anymore  ...
I decided on an Inline 4 for many reasons ( mostly cost conscious ). I read through Kendalwolfs thread on his Jetta to Vanagon and convinced that a non interference 1.8l would get me to where i wanted to go for the price. Then that all changed ....
After buying an 82 Diesel and stripping out the parts I started to source a 1.8. Then a used TiiCo appeared in Utah and I had it shipped cross country to Buffalo and brought it across the border. 250 for a running complete TiiCo kit was too good to pass up on ....
After starting into that motor to check leak down etc, a brand new Crate engine appeared for sale in Texas. I ended up buying that one too and had it shipped up to the border ( thanks again Karl !! ). This provided my best opportunity to start with 100% all new engine, injection, harness, etc.
TiiCo's are a strange animal, being a global collection of the VW parts catalog: South African bored out 1.8l block to 2.0l, one off Motronic injection system based off a low end Polo, diesel carrier bars and a bad history of issues. They didn't have the type of success that was originally planned for the conversion. Early adopters really had to have patience and $$ to work through all the foibles of the early TiiCo's. My hats off to those guys !!
I became educated quickly on what needed to be done to help get this to where it needed to be ... First to see what I actually bought. having an engine sit in a crate in the Texas sun without injectors in the head I was worried a little what may lie in store. It had all the original problematic ECU ( A code ) which means a 500 dollar investment right off the bat, had the A2 style Vbelt and crappy TiiCo style alt mounts etc. The engine needed money into it before it was even run but it was a fantastic starting point to invest into IMO.
On the stand she goes and strip off the pans to take a boo ...
Looks nice ! Valve train didn't have any coatings of rust, peering to the cylinder bores looked great.
Bottom end nice an clean. Installed a Golf Windage Tray while i was in there ( need to clearance the adapter plate with a dremel a little to get it all to re assemble nicely. New style valve cover gasket was already present on this motor.
New timing belt and tensioner for sure. Made sure all was set up properly and a couple revolutions to make sure i didn't bugger something up.
FAS ( Foreign Auto Supply ) and the yahoo group quickly became by go to guys to get some understanding where to proceed. After all I am 10 years past the bell curve of installations of this motor. FAS supplied me with new E code ECU ( to fix all the injection woes ), a new Billet Crank and water pump pulley.
I don't have A/C nor need it so I wanted to source an A3 Golf / Jetta serpentine belt system to get rid of wobble issues. Sourcing a factory A/C Delete alt mount was not an overly easy task but a local Ontarian managed to find one for me. This moves the Alternator down low enough to completely miss the decklid and not affect cooling. Installed a 120A alternator and a TDI starter / adapter at the same time.
Injection: Going to the E code ECU means to abandon the 2.1l Wasser injectors and go A2 88-92 style injectors. I managed to piece together a few Ebay buys to get all new NOS injectors.
Over the years of Superceeding part numbers, some injectors don't have the proper 'groove' to clip them into the A2 fuel rail. This meant using a small hacksaw to modify the injector bodies. This worked out very well....
Out with the old ....
then take the van to the media blasters and clean out the engine bay / tranny area. Por 15 Grey and Wurth rubbberized body undercoating as per insyncros most excellent work threads ( thanks for all the details ! ). I couldn't source the high build version up here but the low build is such a nice product to work with ...
After a little rust fixes here and there, the new engine bay ...
mating Tranny and Engine on the floor and then proceed with the install ..
The engine hoist / jack under the tranny was a life saver ( and the Bro in Law that works for drinks ! lol ) to get the motor where it needed to be safely.
Here she sits on her down for the first time.
NOW comes the fun part ! The install instructions are a good vague overview of things to be done but lack in some of the details. Thanks to the Yahoo group and lots of searches and data collection I have a good head start on all the wiring to be done. Some of the stuff is a little vague but I've been working through that on my little spare time.
Once finished with the wiring and re attaching the tranny, etc. Then it is on to exhaust etc. More to post as I make progress !
Last edited by metropoj on Wed Jun 24, 2015 4:02 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Signalocity
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Joined: February 13, 2012
Posts: 573
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| Posted: Mon Jun 22, 2015 6:11 am Post subject: |
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| I like where this is going, look forward to seeing the progress! |
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dobryan
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Joined: March 24, 2006
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Location: Brookeville, MD
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Zeitgeist 13
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Joined: March 05, 2009
Posts: 12115
Location: Port Manteau
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| Posted: Mon Jun 22, 2015 7:55 am Post subject: |
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Does the new ECU use an oxygen sensor?
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Casey--
'89 Bluestar ALH w/12mm Waldo pump, PP764 and GT2052
'01 Weekender --> full camper
y u rune klassik? |
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rcook52459
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Joined: August 24, 2011
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Location: PORTLAND ORE
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| Posted: Mon Jun 22, 2015 8:24 am Post subject: |
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the early tiico uses 1 or 2 wire o2 sensor.the E code one uses 4 wire o2 sensor.
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85 westy tiico conversion.auto trans triumph TR250 1980 Suzuki GS1000l |
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metropoj
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Joined: April 23, 2004
Posts: 1343
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| Posted: Mon Jun 22, 2015 8:27 am Post subject: |
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Yep, a 4 wire sensor now.
+, -, pin 15 and pin 38 to ECU. I scavenged the correct brown connector to fit the new Bosch 15026 O2 sensor from an A3 Golf. |
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Forthwithtx
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Joined: July 14, 2014
Posts: 717
Location: Fort Worth
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| Posted: Mon Jun 22, 2015 8:43 am Post subject: |
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I am starting to really appreciate the wisdom of selling that motor to you. 
Seriously though, that choice boiled down to horsepower, for me. Looking forward to the rest of the story, as it unfolds.
Cheers!
-Karl |
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Zeitgeist 13
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Joined: March 05, 2009
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Location: Port Manteau
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| Posted: Mon Jun 22, 2015 8:46 am Post subject: |
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I thought I remembered reading something about early Tiico engines coming over here with no OXS at all.
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Casey--
'89 Bluestar ALH w/12mm Waldo pump, PP764 and GT2052
'01 Weekender --> full camper
y u rune klassik? |
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metropoj
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Joined: April 23, 2004
Posts: 1343
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| Posted: Mon Jun 22, 2015 10:08 am Post subject: |
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| Forthwithtx wrote: |
I am starting to really appreciate the wisdom of selling that motor to you.
Seriously though, that choice boiled down to horsepower, for me. Looking forward to the rest of the story, as it unfolds.
Cheers!
-Karl |
Yeah, it ain't no 2.5 Subi ...
Someone trying to run this A code ECU motor with all the first gen stuff on it would have been very disappointed but I knew that going in.
With the onset of options now it certainly is past its day for most people and fell out of favor... |
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metropoj
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Joined: April 23, 2004
Posts: 1343
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| Posted: Mon Jun 22, 2015 10:12 am Post subject: |
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| Zeitgeist 13 wrote: |
| I thought I remembered reading something about early Tiico engines coming over here with no OXS at all. |
Correct ! Once the "non" South African weather hit the USA there were major failures. I suspect some of the early adopters may still be waking up in a night terror after all they went through ...
For those curious here is a little write up on the ECU / Duo Sensor issues that hit the early ones.
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=554200 |
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Zeitgeist 13
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Joined: March 05, 2009
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Location: Port Manteau
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| Posted: Mon Jun 22, 2015 10:49 am Post subject: |
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I have no experience with the Tiico engines, but have driven a 1.8L inline w/Digifant II, and found the engine to be well up to the task of pushing the van around. It sounds like most of the previous issues have all been sorted out by now. Too bad it took so long. They should've just run Digi-II on all those engines. It's a simple and robust system
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Casey--
'89 Bluestar ALH w/12mm Waldo pump, PP764 and GT2052
'01 Weekender --> full camper
y u rune klassik? |
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mozcar78
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Joined: November 01, 2013
Posts: 39
Location: Long Beach
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| Posted: Mon Jun 22, 2015 12:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Zeitgeist 13 wrote: |
| I have no experience with the Tiico engines, but have driven a 1.8L inline w/Digifant II, and found the engine to be well up to the task of pushing the van around. It sounds like most of the previous issues have all been sorted out by now. Too bad it took so long. They should've just run Digi-II on all those engines. It's a simple and robust system |
this is what i wonder all the time. WHy not just run the digi2 system? Its simple enough to adopt.
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89' Vanagon GL 'Free Candy' Edition
81' Rabbit Truck |
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Sloride
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metropoj
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Joined: April 23, 2004
Posts: 1343
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| Posted: Tue Jun 23, 2015 4:11 am Post subject: |
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One thing I didn't care for in this motor was the interference design and why i wanted to go 1.8 over this higher horsepowered 2.0l at 118. I decided to take the chance on it.
Injection :
When they were picking an economical injection system they went with Motronic based off a South African Polo that was plentiful at the time and reworked it, a step more modern than Digi2 with less working parts.
It just didn't end up working out of the box as well as they had hoped. Lots of teething pains, poorly executed project I read.
Exhaust:
FAS has indeed designed a better exhaust system as well as engine carrier system but I'm going to run all stock since it is all brand new and let it die before i move into something new. I also have 4 new spare diesel rubber mounts to chew through hee hee. The TiiCo's were famous for cracked exhaust headers but some people got many years out of theirs. Rolling the dice on how long it lasts. Because the first A code ECUs ran the motors so hot (lean) I am hoping the heat prematurely weakened the headers and cause them to fail early on. We shall see ....
Tranny :
The transmission was giving me a whine tied to what i perceived to be final drive or R&P pr something, so I picked up a replacement ACW tranny past the cut over date that contained the reworked 3-4 slider from the factory. New T.O. bearing, clutch fork ( Van Cafe real one ), bronze bushing ( Van Cafe also). Since the input shaft seals etc were done by the PO who swapped out for a 5 Speed after giving it a go over, I left them as is .
Serpentine system for Non A/C w power steering:
Here is engine with proper Serpentine belt for the non A/C bracket ( 6PK976 ) and correct power steering belt ( 12X685 ) for the A3 pump. I still have to remove the sensor at the end of the Vanagon PS hose that will join to this pump. 120A Passat Alternator sitting on top with the ( I have the terminology wrong here ) ratcheting AAZ style belt pulley. This is the one that were being put on the AAZ's from my understanding to help take the load off of the crank pulley. It came with it so why not .....
Diesel Pilot bearing installed into the TiiCo flywheel and the input shaft was already shortened on the ACW tranny so I don't need to deal with that. My Clutch was done by P.O. and only 4,000 kms on it, all German Sachs so back in she went after cleaning up the flywheel to remove the packing oil on the surface. it went together smoothly.
Wiring Pt1:
Working through the wiring harness hookups, splicing into Jay's hot Start Relay with the TDI starter wiring and also where all those dang harness connectors plug into in the black box ! I think I got most figured out but still some head scratchers. My 86 had some wiring redos after a harness fire many moons ago so I think I'm missing the usual fuel pump harness connector to match the TiiCo harness ..... this one here:
It is a 90 degree connector in white. The Yahoo forum had a nice diagram that helped me fine homes for the rest of these.
More to come shortly ! Fitting exhaust, CV's harness under bench and plenty more before she fires up.... |
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mellowslow
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Joined: July 31, 2009
Posts: 278
Location: Vacationland
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| Posted: Tue Jun 23, 2015 5:45 pm Post subject: |
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Wow what a cool project!
Nice score on the new old stock goods. That set up should run for a long time and be an easy platform to update or upgrade when the time comes.
Judging from your picture, I say you are right on that fuel pump connector ID.
Good luck with the start up!
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'87 WBWE FAS Gen V |
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metropoj
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Joined: April 23, 2004
Posts: 1343
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| Posted: Fri Jul 24, 2015 10:52 am Post subject: Still at it. |
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It is a slow uphill battle with kids projects, summer and family / friends.
Been able to climb under the van again and start with the small minute details such as installing / trimming accelerator cable and joining up to the long plastic tubes.
One of my plastic coolant tubes had the steel insert start to pop loose. I had bought one of the bent copper Go Westy kits to keep it in place. With that in mind, I took the new TiiCo coolant tubes and bent them similar to keep the steel inserts from working their way out of the plastic lines ( along with the 10C suggestion I read to use a little JB Weld to keep them in place!). Maybe one day SS lines to the front ... but not today !
Proceeded to torque down all the motor mounts, bars etc to spec. During my torque down I must have mistaken the bentley values and stripped out a couple of the embedded nuts in the rear apron  .. I was able to extract my bolts and replace with new, then added in lock washers and nuts through the apron to keep it all secure.
You can see them from the outside angle shot.
Harness is now run and connected to all the pieces on the engine and routed into the rear bed area where the stock 2.1l ECU goes. I ended up trimming the cabinetry of the rear seat a little to make the ECU plug fit through a little easier. The wiring that is sticking up here is the new wiring for the 4 wire O2 sensor required for the E code ECU, 2 of the wires are wrapped with harness tape with the rest of the harness ( Tesa Tape ) and then i took some old plastic loom harness covering over top of that.
Starting to look nice back here  ...
Now, onto the exhaust. I had purchased a used TiiCo before this but the PO used the stock factory exhaust hangers off the 2.1. It looked like a mess. After starting to convert all the 2.1l hangers and reading all the stories of inadequacy of the stock system devised, I decided it was money well spent to buy the FAS Product. They spent the time and money to find a good solution so I ended up going with it. It wasn't cheap but right now neither is my time.
Here are some shots ...
Passenger side:
Drivers Side:
The kit is very flexible for getting the muffler etc to all work with decent clearance. I ended up buying the correct Ernst 1.9l Exhaust that the kit recommends. Lifetime warranty, I'm good with that ...
Onto the wiring.
TDI starter with Karl's adapter, Jay Browns starter relay and TDI conversion harness plug kit spliced in. Looks great, I hope it all works when the time comes to turn that key ! ( As in, I hope I didn't wire something up wrong ! )
From what I read, my Alternator needs one of these wires connected to the blue wire coming from the Vanagon harness, I believe for the alternator light. I still gotta read up on this to make sure I do that right ..
**Note FAS Billet Spigot adapter making a photobomb in there **
Moving onto CV Shafts and checking my boots, repacking with grease. Hooked up Shifter and that seems OK for the time being. Also need to rebuild the shifter fork guide with the T3 Technique kit I bought a couple years ago ...
I also picked up Gerald's Front window screen and skylight screen / cover that is now eagerly awaiting the van to actually move from the garage under it's own power ...
Slowly moving forward ...... |
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Vanagon Nut
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Posts: 10379
Location: Sunshine Coast B.C.
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| Posted: Fri Jul 24, 2015 11:27 am Post subject: |
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Thank you for posting pics and details on this build. I don't think you'll regret going with the FAS exhaust mount kit. I keep thinking I've reached the "holy grail" in terms of fabricating my exhaust (15º install) but always have their kit in the back of my mind.
Neil.
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furrylittleotter
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Joined: May 19, 2008
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Location: West Seattle
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| Posted: Fri Jul 24, 2015 12:10 pm Post subject: |
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I LOVE seeing a BRAND NEW engine going into a van!
Thanks for sharing and have fun finishing it up.
I'd ditch that 30R7 Fuel line and Use 30R9.
"Enviromentally Friendly" Ethanol fuel will harden 30R7 in short order.
Hold Fast.
Neil2  |
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metropoj
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Joined: April 23, 2004
Posts: 1343
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| Posted: Fri Jul 24, 2015 12:20 pm Post subject: |
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I must admit I'm getting impatient to get some miles on it but I don't wanna rush it either ...
Thanks for sharing the tip on the R7 fuel line.
Funny story about that piece of line as it was just stuck on there to keep fuel from seeping out of the spigot. I will make sure the rest is R9 however when I get it all set up.
I saved all my sheathing off of the Vanagon fuel lines. That also needs to go over the top too ! |
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metropoj
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Joined: April 23, 2004
Posts: 1343
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| Posted: Fri Jul 24, 2015 12:25 pm Post subject: |
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Ah, and finally, I designed a little badge I'll get on the plotter and turned into a decal for the rear hatch.
Introducing "TiiCo the Squirrel"
For those without little kids, this derives from 'Tico the Squirrel' from the Dora the Explorer series.
I thought that a 'squirrel running in a cage' pretty well summed up all the VW's I've owned over the years as far as engine comparisons so what a fitting mascot ..
Since this "TiiCo the Squirrel" has a little more attitude, the sunglasses and belly button will do lol ... |
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