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dobryan
Samba Member
Joined: March 24, 2006
Posts: 16503
Location: Brookeville, MD
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Sodo
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2007
Posts: 9605
Location: Western WA
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 Posted: Sat Jul 04, 2015 10:32 am Post subject: |
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Oil is only 9,000 miles old. Not draining it to change it, the goal is to find out if there are particles in the oil. I thought I would just drain out a little sample from the bottom and have a look.
If it happens to need new oil at 9,000 miles then the tranny needs to be removed and rebuilt AGAIN. That is a different issue.
Wondering a sample "settled" or "stirred up" are different or useful? And if anybody (who could know) has found value in looking at what is in "the bottom". Is the drain hole situated such that sediment will come out first? Or will it always leave the sediment in a well (if drained "July cold")? Someone (who's been in many a syncro tranny) must have opinions on this.
In the meantime I'll drain a little off the bottom and look, then decide whether to do it hot.
Does anybody know if this plug is original? Thinking it might be Magnetic, and if so then I ought to look at it rather than just leak some oil out.
_________________
'90 Westy EJ25, 2Peloquins, 3knobs, pressure-oiled GT mainshaft, filtered, cooled gearbox
'87 Tintop w 47k 53k, '12 SmallCar EJ25, cooled filtered gearbox
....KTMs, GasGas, SPOT mtb |
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Sodo
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2007
Posts: 9605
Location: Western WA
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| Posted: Sat Jul 04, 2015 1:12 pm Post subject: |
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OK its a magnetic plug. But just a peek at the pint I got out tells me there's a lot that I have to do (before driving to Montana on July 16th).
9,000 miles since rebuild. Lots of steel flakes.
As someone else said this is no fun at all. I've been paying $800 and more for R&R alone, and this (174k) will be the 4th R&R since the PO did 1st rebuild @104k miles. I might have to R&R myself to make the 16th departure date.
Really wish I knew what could be done to get 100,000 miles out of a rebuild. Each time I go back to the same guy they give me a break (being low miles, out of warranty by a few years) but in R&R alone …… I've spent far more than a rebuild should cost.
Aside from this experience (?) I have no reason to believe ANYBODY could/would rebuild a Vanagon tranny better than these folks. The conversation gets a little stilted because I'm thinking they ought to cover the whole thing including R&R. And they don't know what I've "done" with this transmission, which is technically out of warranty and running an EJ25. So rather than digging into it and inspecting parts etc, and really learning what was done - I depart with a small discount and some "hope".
Anyone have ideas? I really need a solution to this. Is there an elephant in the room? ( EJ25? ) Do I have to drive it like a WBX - never over 4,000 rpm?
I will talk to them again on Monday.
_________________
'90 Westy EJ25, 2Peloquins, 3knobs, pressure-oiled GT mainshaft, filtered, cooled gearbox
'87 Tintop w 47k 53k, '12 SmallCar EJ25, cooled filtered gearbox
....KTMs, GasGas, SPOT mtb |
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Birdcage
Samba Member
Joined: November 06, 2013
Posts: 203
Location: Collins of fort
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| Posted: Sat Jul 04, 2015 5:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Sodo wrote: |
Really wish I knew what could be done to get 100,000 miles out of a rebuild. Each time I go back to the same guy they give me a break (being low miles, out of warranty by a few years) but in R&R alone …… I've spent far more than a rebuild should cost.
Anyone have ideas? I really need a solution to this. Is there an elephant in the room? ( EJ25? ) Do I have to drive it like a WBX - never over 4,000 rpm?
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Either your rebuilder sucks or your maxing out your van. If you've been using the same rebuilder I'd look elsewhere. Some guys have a great internet reputation but fall way short when it comes to ability and skill. Given your location I know two local guys 1 I've never used and the other, well it goes back to the Internet reputation I spoke of. Good luck |
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Syncro Jael
Samba Member
Joined: December 19, 2013
Posts: 2204
Location: Utah
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| Posted: Sun Jul 05, 2015 9:08 am Post subject: |
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For what we pay to have these transaxles rebuilt, I will pay the extra to have it rebuilt from a builders reputation. When the vanagon community recommends only a few builders for syncro trannies, I listened.
Back when Daryl was with us, he had so much knowledge from the shear numbers of transaxles he had to work on. Matt also has been in many and has a wealth of knowledge. It was interesting, when I went to the shop at AA, to see all the trannies that were waiting to be rebuilt. I waited months to get mine in line. I am guessing there is a reason why?
There are a few other reputable builders out there also that do great builds also.
If you keep going through these rebuilds so often, then there has to be another reason why. I know the EJ25 crosses the 150hp threshold the limits the warranty from AA has. It cuts it from 2 years to only 1 year. But I have seen many others with high horsepower engines not have issues for some time, and others that go through a tranny rebuild almost every year. I am guessing it has a lot to do with the operator of the vehicle.
When you take yours to the shop for a rebuild, ask what failed, ask why they believe it failed, and get your used parts to take a look at. To an untrained eye many of these shafts look fine, but to some, they are worn out of the builders specifications.
I have had rebuilds in my vans with German Transaxle and AA Transaxle. I would recommend them both. Matt at AA will do my rebuilds because I took the time to go and personally meet him and see him work.
Sorry to hear you are having these issues. A Syncro transaxle is getting to be the most expensive component on our vans.
Good luck.
_________________
1987 Syncro Westfalia Hightop - NAHT
Subaru EJ25 Forged Frankenmotor, Triple Knob.
Jael = (Mountain Goat) |
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Sodo
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2007
Posts: 9605
Location: Western WA
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| Posted: Sun Jul 05, 2015 9:32 am Post subject: |
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| Syncro Jael wrote: |
| If you keep going through these rebuilds so often, then there has to be another reason why. I know the EJ25 crosses the 150hp threshold the limits the warranty from AA has. It cuts it from 2 years to only 1 year. But I have seen many others with high horsepower engines not have issues for some time, and others that go through a tranny rebuild almost every year. I am guessing it has a lot to do with the operator of the vehicle. |
Not sure its one reason, probably several reasons. Possibly the replacement parts available are not up to OEM standards. And maybe they can't get a full lifetime when combined with other old used tranny parts.
The EJ25 puts out 130-150 HP at betw 4- 5,000 RPM. I routinely downshift to 3rd to maintain 70 MPH, which I think is 4250 RPM. I feel kinda like I ought to keep up with normal traffic but probably need to change my ways. I have had it with tranny problems. Plus I have a pickup now as daily driver, so the Syncro is only for Syncro-ing.
Anyway what's useful from this thread is the LACK of folks saying that I should EXPECT the tranny to survive 150+ horsepower. Thanks SJ for the recommendations. I'm sure glad I didn't choose the 3.0 H6……
Also my reverse gear is super LOUD 'on the backside'. I don't recall this as being normal. Does this give any clues about the shafts or bearings?
_________________
'90 Westy EJ25, 2Peloquins, 3knobs, pressure-oiled GT mainshaft, filtered, cooled gearbox
'87 Tintop w 47k 53k, '12 SmallCar EJ25, cooled filtered gearbox
....KTMs, GasGas, SPOT mtb |
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16CVs 
Samba Member
Joined: February 22, 2004
Posts: 4024
Location: Redwood City, California
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| Posted: Sun Jul 05, 2015 11:06 am Post subject: |
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Just to welcome you to the club, my Exchange trans went 28K miles until a carrier bearing was loose in the housing, requiring a sleeve to be made. My Pro rated warranty was such that it would have cost me more to ship it and pay a portion than it was worth. I had a local guy redo mine who does it as a hobby and has done other work for me as well ,6 K after that it was back out for a pinion bearing. All seems fine now. But like you, even if it was covered under warranty then the R+R labor is a killer.
It is not that bad of a job to do ,just really nuts and bolts. Luckily for me ,we have a few spares to swap in while they are being serviced. which just doubles the labor but keeps my money maker moving.
About 5 years ago Darryl was saying that there were no New pinion bearings available and was using good used pinion bearings in his builds. I think mine was one of those built when you could not get a new one. Granted mine was not built by AA but by the the big guys down in Los Osos..
_________________
1987 Syncro Westfalia Triple knob (bastard)
1989 Syncro Tristar Triple knob "Swedish"
2013 Jetta Hybrid a true "Zwitter"
Samba member # 14980
Call anytime number 650 722 4914 .
Keep Your van running and upkept tastefully for the love of the hobby.
Don't let your van end up in an "abortions" thread. |
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dobryan
Samba Member
Joined: March 24, 2006
Posts: 16503
Location: Brookeville, MD
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| Posted: Sun Jul 05, 2015 11:17 am Post subject: |
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I went thru a 2wd tranny in 50,000 miles using an EJ25 and driving 70-80 mph (for hundreds of miles at a time) with a taller 3rd and 0.77 4th gear. The Weddle third and fourth wore out, not anything else according to Matt at AA. Sewpco 210 gear oil. The consensus is that I was pushing the tranny too hard on the highway and getting it too hot which was causing expansion/clearance issues leading to premature wear. The samba seems to think that 160f is the safe limit (but there is no scientific testing to verify this AFAIK). For my long trip this summer I installed a tranny temp gauge and am driving such that I do not exceed 165f. YMMV.
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Dave O
'87 Westy w/ 2002 Subaru EJ25 and Peloquin TBD
"To travel hopefully is a better thing than to arrive." Robert Louis Stevenson
MD>Canada>AK>WA>OR>CA>AZ>UT>WY>SD
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=620646
Building a bus for travel in Europe (euroBus)
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=695371
The Western Syncro build
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=746794 |
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Sodo
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2007
Posts: 9605
Location: Western WA
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| Posted: Sun Jul 05, 2015 11:36 am Post subject: |
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| dobryan wrote: |
I installed a tranny temp gauge and am driving such that I do not exceed 165f.
"To travel hopefully is a better thing than to arrive." Robert Louis Stevenson |
Due to tranny doubts (rather than a philosophy) I've been doing the RLS thing for years. Will probably add a temp guage. 
_________________
'90 Westy EJ25, 2Peloquins, 3knobs, pressure-oiled GT mainshaft, filtered, cooled gearbox
'87 Tintop w 47k 53k, '12 SmallCar EJ25, cooled filtered gearbox
....KTMs, GasGas, SPOT mtb |
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davevickery
Samba Member
Joined: July 16, 2005
Posts: 2887
Location: Fort Collins, CO
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| Posted: Sun Jul 05, 2015 4:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Sodo wrote: |
The EJ25 puts out 130-150 HP at betw 4- 5,000 RPM. I routinely downshift to 3rd to maintain 70 MPH, which I think is 4250 RPM. I feel kinda like I ought to keep up with normal traffic but probably need to change my ways. I have had it with tranny problems. Plus I have a pickup now as daily driver, so the Syncro is only for Syncro-ing. |
Tons of people have loaded syncro westies with 215/75/15 oversized tires, stock gearing and a subie 2.5. So that alone isn't the issue.
I personally would not return it to the person who rebuilt it. I'd just want a second opinion. Warrantees are that great anyway if you read the fine print, the dollar limit is surprisingly low on some, it was $250 in labor for an issue I had with a AA rebuild. Anyway another shop is another set of eyes and you can compare it to what you haver already heard. German Transaxle in Bend Or, or Rancho in So Cal, or Arizona Transaxle, and AA all have good reputations. I also recently read a good review of Tom Shiels in Canada who is know for being pretty meticulous. Aren't you near NorthWesty. You could see who he uses for transaxle rebuilds. Just try one of ones you haven' t used. It isn't rocket science. You need someone who enjoys a puzzle.
If you could get a working spare it would give you time to have that one looked over. That might be hard to find, but lots of people are holding onto them. That sounds expensive, but you can sell one of them later if you want to, there is always a market for a syncro transaxle.
Good luck.
Last edited by davevickery on Mon Jul 06, 2015 11:44 am; edited 1 time in total |
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insyncro
Banned
Joined: March 07, 2002
Posts: 15086
Location: New York
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| Posted: Sun Jul 05, 2015 5:54 pm Post subject: |
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Kirk uses AA, along with many more of us than not.
Wait until you see the beautiful locker Matt is building me for a high end Bostig conversion and complete Syncro Westy restoration. |
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Sodo
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2007
Posts: 9605
Location: Western WA
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| Posted: Sun Jul 05, 2015 6:22 pm Post subject: |
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Referring to climbing hills in 3rd gear...…
| davevickery wrote: |
| Sodo wrote: |
...I routinely downshift to 3rd to maintain 70 MPH, which I think is 4250 RPM…. |
What is this shifting to maintain 70? 70 mph is not 4250 unless you are way overgeared. |
Tires are 215/75R15. I think my tranny & gears are stock. Pretty sure 3rd gear at 70mph is 4250 RPM. Not sure what you mean by redline. Currently the van is hunched over, crapping its tranny onto the driveway.
I'd very much like to know whats going on. Each time I thought it was the "last rebuild" (for a long time).
_________________
'90 Westy EJ25, 2Peloquins, 3knobs, pressure-oiled GT mainshaft, filtered, cooled gearbox
'87 Tintop w 47k 53k, '12 SmallCar EJ25, cooled filtered gearbox
....KTMs, GasGas, SPOT mtb |
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syncrodoka
Samba Member
Joined: December 27, 2005
Posts: 12005
Location: Santa Cruz, CA
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| Posted: Sun Jul 05, 2015 7:37 pm Post subject: |
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| 4250RPM is nowhere near fuel cutoff or redline for a EJ25 |
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dobryan
Samba Member
Joined: March 24, 2006
Posts: 16503
Location: Brookeville, MD
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davevickery
Samba Member
Joined: July 16, 2005
Posts: 2887
Location: Fort Collins, CO
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| Posted: Sun Jul 05, 2015 8:30 pm Post subject: |
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deleted
Last edited by davevickery on Mon Jul 06, 2015 11:45 am; edited 1 time in total |
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syncrodoka
Samba Member
Joined: December 27, 2005
Posts: 12005
Location: Santa Cruz, CA
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| Posted: Sun Jul 05, 2015 8:47 pm Post subject: |
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Something is wonky, you can't get that speed at that RPM with stock gears. According to a gear calculator the motor will be turning almost 6K RPM to maintain that speed with 215/75/15 tires and stock gears.
Either the speed, RPM or gears are different than stated. |
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Sodo
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2007
Posts: 9605
Location: Western WA
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| Posted: Sun Jul 05, 2015 10:25 pm Post subject: |
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| syncrodoka wrote: |
| Something is wonky, you can't get that speed at that RPM with stock gears. |
Sounds like I'm mistaken. Five years ago I'd know these details but the Vanagon is no longer my daily driver.
Is 4250 RPM with 215/75-15 = 70mph in 4th? That sounds more like it. I am always amazed how high the RPMs are on a vanagon on the hiway.
_________________
'90 Westy EJ25, 2Peloquins, 3knobs, pressure-oiled GT mainshaft, filtered, cooled gearbox
'87 Tintop w 47k 53k, '12 SmallCar EJ25, cooled filtered gearbox
....KTMs, GasGas, SPOT mtb |
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syncrodoka
Samba Member
Joined: December 27, 2005
Posts: 12005
Location: Santa Cruz, CA
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| Posted: Sun Jul 05, 2015 10:41 pm Post subject: |
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| 4200 RPM with those tires will get you 81.6 MPH in 4th according to the gear calculator. |
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Sodo
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2007
Posts: 9605
Location: Western WA
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| Posted: Sun Jul 05, 2015 10:46 pm Post subject: |
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hmmm… I'm going to stop discussing RPMs and speeds for awhile.
_________________
'90 Westy EJ25, 2Peloquins, 3knobs, pressure-oiled GT mainshaft, filtered, cooled gearbox
'87 Tintop w 47k 53k, '12 SmallCar EJ25, cooled filtered gearbox
....KTMs, GasGas, SPOT mtb |
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djkeev
Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007
Posts: 32598
Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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