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Rebuilding an 091 transaxle
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airschooled
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2015 7:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SGKent wrote:

Shifts Ok. 1st is a little hard to go in but I am told that is because the synchro is new and sticky. It was that way on the jig too.

Needs GL4 and hook back up to engine then test. If it works awesome. If not it will go to Eric at Transworks in El Cajon.


First was extremely stiff on my Rancho rebuild, and it scared me a little, I can only imagine how you're feeling right now! Very Happy

We all know it won't be going to Transworks, you've been too meticulous. Our hats are off here, best of luck!

Robbie
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skills@eurocarsplus
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2015 8:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="SGKent"]
skills@eurocarsplus wrote:
I'm still waiting....

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good. the wait is almost over. do it!!!!!
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gprudenciop wrote:

my reason for switching to subaru is my german car was turning chinese so i said fuck it and went japanese.......
[email protected] wrote:
most VW enthusiasts are stuck in 80's price land.

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Thanks for the correction. I used to be a nice guy, then I ruined it by exposing myself to the public.

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Also the fact that people are agreeing with Skills, it's a turn of events for samba history
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SGKent Premium Member
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 26, 2015 1:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

and new coupler all welded up and ready to install. & a spare one too for my next VW bus .... Smile

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http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6...p;start=20



for more on shift couplers
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2015 7:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

getting close. Trans is in and all bolted up. Diff spins well whether opposite or in the same direction. Really smooooooooooooooooth. Just have some of the peripherals to finish and we can test it.
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airschooled
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2015 8:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Popcorn


You did fill it with oil, right?? Laughing
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2015 11:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

asiab3 wrote:
Popcorn


You did fill it with oil, right?? Laughing


you pack them with a grease gun right?


(yes - 3.7 quarts of GL4 before it went in. All 4 synchro rings are moly coated, and they cannot tolerate GL5 or synthetic. From what I understand the synthetic or GL5 penetrates the moly coating and makes it too slippery to shift. Big Bore said he and a couple other builders he knows got burned really bad by letting clients put their own trans fluid in. The only fix it to replace the synchro rings again)
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airschooled
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2015 1:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dang that would be a bummer. Maybe that's why Rancho won't use moly synchro rings even when asked.

I kept my new trans in the shipping box, bottom side high, and filled it with two quarts of oil that way to coat all the gear carrier mechanisms and main bearings, then I finished filling it in the car. My thought process was that filling it all in the car wouldn't get the gears and bearings coated until a few miles into the first drive, and that doesn't sound promising to me.

Robbie
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2015 2:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

asiab3 wrote:
Dang that would be a bummer. Maybe that's why Rancho won't use moly synchro rings even when asked.

I kept my new trans in the shipping box, bottom side high, and filled it with two quarts of oil that way to coat all the gear carrier mechanisms and main bearings, then I finished filling it in the car. My thought process was that filling it all in the car wouldn't get the gears and bearings coated until a few miles into the first drive, and that doesn't sound promising to me.

Robbie


Good thought. I coated everything with GL4, or grease if appropriate, or GL4 and a light touch of moly paste where appropriate. The ring gear, pinion, and mainshaft all sit in oil so they will toss it everywhere when it spins. The issue is even with that much oil the trans cannot shed heat fast enough when at freeway speeds.

Here is one for you. During my mind wandering over the years I've often wondered why camshaft manufacturers have abandoned moly paste and instead used that red assembly lube. I learned why while trying to find a can of moly for building this trans. Moly is like graphite in that the molecules sheet. When they are in sheet form they are very slippery - much as if we were trying to walk over a pile of greased pieces of slate lying on top of one another. However sometimes the molecules can get laid up on their sides, and in that case they are extremely abrasive. That is why many builders of fine machine parts have gone to other lubricants like that red stuff. Torco assembly lube or something like that. I did use a little of that in some GL4 on things like the pinion and carrier bearings during final assembly.

As for the moly rings - to replace them requires a total disassembly. Mike (Big Bore) said he had one client use synthetic so Mike had to rebuild it. He tried cleaning the synchro rings while it was apart and reusing them but the synthetic embeds in the moly and the rings are as bad as worn out ones. GL4 only. Rick Long gives the same warning in his CD. GL4 only if one has any moly coated synchros.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2015 2:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I ran a KG transmission with no oil for a summer with no ill effects.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2015 7:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

took it out. Shifts better than before. Has slight whine on the load side in 2 & 3 but I suspect that will go away once the bearings break in.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2015 1:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks so much for this post,

Going to be going through this myself in the near future and this will help me out a lot!
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2015 7:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Heliconman wrote:
Thanks so much for this post,

Going to be going through this myself in the near future and this will help me out a lot!


I wish you the best. It is a lot of work and much of it is by feel. Find a mentor because you will need one.
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 3:23 pm    Post subject: Re: Rebuilding an 091 transaxle Reply with quote

Just re-read this whole thread for like the fourth time,
getting ready to dive into my 091 preemptively before all parts are NLA..

A great read for sure..

A couple of years later,
How many miles does it have on it now?
Did it break in nicely?
Anything you would do differently in hindsight?

Ready to sell off your collection of trans tools yet? Razz
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 4:01 pm    Post subject: Re: Rebuilding an 091 transaxle Reply with quote

about 1500 miles. I would have replaced the differential when they were $550. Now they are double that.

It whines a little because of the prior wear I will warn you that it is a real PITA and if I had to do it over again it would have gone to Eric in El Cajon to have him rebuild it. Rick Long recommended him.

I am going to reset the diff to a little to see if the whine goes away. If not, will probably replace the diff once I retire, and once done and the bus sold then the tools will go up for sale. That could be a year +/-.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2019 1:54 am    Post subject: Re: Rebuilding an 091 transaxle Reply with quote

Great post ,would the original author or anyone else in the know be able to comment on the setting of the diff preload.Currently doing a earlier 002 bus box and wanting to clarify when you zero the diff bearings and turn in the adjuster 1.25 inches is this done on one side only or on both adjusters
Thanks Ross
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2019 7:19 am    Post subject: Re: Rebuilding an 091 transaxle Reply with quote

Kiwi1966 wrote:
Great post ,would the original author or anyone else in the know be able to comment on the setting of the diff preload.Currently doing a earlier 002 bus box and wanting to clarify when you zero the diff bearings and turn in the adjuster 1.25 inches is this done on one side only or on both adjusters
Thanks Ross


There are different preloads for new or used bearings. The numbers in the VW factory manual ABSOLUTELY DID NOT even come close for me so don't use those. There is something missing in the manual about the process. Rick Long has a CD with info in it that will work. You probably needed to mark where the old bearings were too AND the ORIGINAL gear lash.

http://www.longenterprises.com/
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2019 11:12 am    Post subject: Re: Rebuilding an 091 transaxle Reply with quote

Thanks for your reply- yes I marked the adjusters before disassembly.and have fitted new skf diff bearings.Just wanting to clarify when you did your 091 preload that you took your adjusters in till the bearings were zeroed and then tightened just one adjuster 1.25 inches to achieve preload or were both adjusters taken in 1.25 inches. Once I have this preload thing right in my head will pop pinion in temp and set backlash.
Thanks Ross
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2019 12:07 pm    Post subject: Re: Rebuilding an 091 transaxle Reply with quote

1.25" may be too much. Use Rick Long's numbers is my recommendation. And frankly, not to be an ass, but the answer to your question is when you are done you need to have the same lash that the diff had when you pulled it apart since you have not replaced the pinion bearing.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2019 12:57 pm    Post subject: Re: Rebuilding an 091 transaxle Reply with quote

Hi again I am installing a new pinion bearing as well (was main issure causing noise) will try and track down Ricks Cd , am down on the other side of the world in New Zealand so I will see how I go.Have watched the 3 videos you made of your diff preload so its given me an idea what to aim for , just trying to clarify if the 1 to 1.25 inches is done on both adjustors or just the one
Thanks Ross
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2019 3:26 pm    Post subject: Re: Rebuilding an 091 transaxle Reply with quote

You need to know what the lash was, what range is allowed and then make a decision where to set it. It may make noise if you tighten the lash because you will be changing where the ring and pinion mesh. You also need a jig to set the gear cluster when you pull the pinion shaft out to replace the pinion bearing.

Screw in differential adjusters to their original marked positions in the case with the adjusters being on the same side as they were when it came apart. Then you set the R&P lash. If one adjuster is moved inwards to change the lash then the other has to be moved outwards to compensate, and likewise. Once you have the lash set then Rick writes: set the diff adjusters to 26 to 30 inch pounds for new bearings, or 2.6 to 6.1 inch lbs for used bearings with ONLY a turning torque wrench. Or Rick uses 1” to 1 ¼” preload on new bearings past the no preload to preload point (where the bearing freeplay disappears), and 5/8” to 3/4" in on used bearings. Keep in mind that as you move the one on the ring gear side it may change lash, so you have to check that and fine tune it. You are ONLY loading the ONE side that should not change lash - that is the ring gear side (S1). If you change S2 (the pinion side) then you will pull or push the ring gear away from the pinion gear and that will change lash.

If I seem hesitant to offer advise it is because rebuilding the 091 was the most labor intensive new mechanical thing I have ever done because it is not intuitive, and trust me I have built many more things that have greater complexity to them. Most of the folks who build these have done thousands of them and they have everything down pat. They are really the people to ask a how to, and I can't speak for them but my guess is most will tell you that you are in over your head without a manual of some kind to follow setting things back up.
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