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1950split Samba Member
Joined: December 08, 2005 Posts: 450
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Posted: Sun Jun 28, 2015 12:37 pm Post subject: Mallory Hyfire 6al issue |
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Hi,
I've built an engine test bench and as I had a Hyfire 6al laying around fitted it to the bench.
Upon starting the engine on the bench I found that I have no spark at the coil/distributor wire.
I then tested the spark test procedure as per the hyfire manual : coil/distributor wire to ground and white wire from the box to ground too, without cranking.
Doing this I have sparks at the end of the coil/distributor wire.
The big red wire is hooked to a toggle Switch hooked to the constant hot of the starter. Big black to the ground, Orange to + of coil, small black to - of coil, yellow to tach, small red to + which gets juice from the master switch of the bench.
Anyone has an idea of what's the issue?
Thanks
Phil [/s] |
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Dale M. Samba Member
Joined: April 12, 2006 Posts: 20365 Location: Just a tiny bit west of Yosemite Valley
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Posted: Sun Jun 28, 2015 6:59 pm Post subject: Re: Mallory Hyfire 6al issue |
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1950split wrote: |
Hi,
I've built an engine test bench and as I had a Hyfire 6al laying around fitted it to the bench.
Upon starting the engine on the bench I found that I have no spark at the coil/distributor wire.
I then tested the spark test procedure as per the hyfire manual : coil/distributor wire to ground and white wire from the box to ground too, without cranking.
Doing this I have sparks at the end of the coil/distributor wire.
The big red wire is hooked to a toggle Switch hooked to the constant hot of the starter. Big black to the ground, Orange to + of coil, small black to - of coil, yellow to tach, small red to + which gets juice from the master switch of the bench.
Anyone has an idea of what's the issue?
Thanks
Phil |
Why is large red with hooked to goggle switch.... Small red wire turns box off/on....
And your white wire is connected where?
http://www.jegs.com/InstallationInstructions/600/650/650-6852M.pdf
Installation on test stand should be identical to car installation....
IF using Comp-u-fire or Pertronix modules, they wire the same way to Mallory box as to MSD box...
Dale _________________ “Fear The Government That Wants To Take Your Guns" - Thomas Jefferson.
"Kellison Sand Piper Roadster" For Street & Show.
"Joe Pody Sandrover" Buggy with 2180 for Autocross (Sold)
============================================================
All suggestions and advice are purely my own opinion. You are free to ignore them if you wish ... |
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mondshine Samba Member
Joined: October 27, 2006 Posts: 2765 Location: The World's Motor Capital
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Posted: Sun Jun 28, 2015 7:12 pm Post subject: |
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It sounds like you're doing it right.
The green wire from your distributor should be connected to the white wire.
When the points are closed, the white wire from the CDI is grounded. When the points open, the connection to ground is broken and the spark occurs.
When using a CDI, old style points are best. They last "forever" because they are switching a tiny current, and they are absolutely reliable, compared to pertronix type gizmos.
Good luck, Mondshine |
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1950split Samba Member
Joined: December 08, 2005 Posts: 450
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Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2015 6:15 am Post subject: |
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I need to be more specific in the explanation of my set-up :
I took the following options in the wiring :
-1- push and release starter button
-1- master toggle switch that controls :
a) a second toggle for the ignition;
b) a third toggle for the fuel pump.
This way I can prime an engine without ignition and fuel pump running.
- The master toggle switch gets current directly from the hot+ of the starter.
- The "big" red wire from the Hyfire is connected to the "ignition toggle switch" (a)
- The "small" red wire is connected to the "Master toggle" and gets current as soon as I switch on the "master toggle". => however the Mallory is not "ON" until I switch the "Ignition toggle" on.
The Unilite distributor is connected the following way to the set-up :
- GREEN wire of the Unilite to WHITE wire of the Hyfire;
- RED wire of the Unilite to SMALL RED wire of Hyfire;
- BROWN wire of the Unilite to ground.
What I don't get is that I have sparks with the "spark test procedure" described in the instructions (ground WHITE wire of the Hyfire and Coil/distributor cable, without cranking the engine) but don't have a single spark when I crank the engine.
I read somewhere on the forum that if battery voltage falls below certain level, the Hyfire does not start. However the battery I use is new and is fully charged. |
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mondshine Samba Member
Joined: October 27, 2006 Posts: 2765 Location: The World's Motor Capital
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Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2015 7:05 am Post subject: |
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Why not just connect the large red wire from the Hyfire to the battery connection on the starter (per the instructions)?
As you say, the Hyfire is not "on" until the small red wire receives +12V.
You can test the Unilite module by slipping an opaque object (like the corner of a credit card) between the optical sensor; when you remove the obstruction, a spark should occur.
The Unilite module is very sensitive to voltage spikes, bad grounds, incorrect wiring, etc. If you look at it the wrong way, it's fried.
I used a Unilite distributor in a Super Beetle that I no longer own. At that time, there were lots of complaints about module failures. I had a couple of 605 module failures when I was using the Mallory distributor in another car, and ithe distributor sat on a shelf for years.
After some trepidation; including considering having Prestolite (parent company of Mallory) convert the distributor to single points, I decided to give the Unilite distributor another try. I went with the 6100M, the so-called e-spark module which, according to Mallory, was engineered to lower the cost of manufacture to compete with Pertronix type triggers. It is machine assembled (as opposed to hand assembled like the original 605 module).
I have found that in general, machine assembled electronic devices are more consistent and reliable than hand assembled parts; the e-spark (6100M) module lasted until the car was out of my hands. I always carried a spare, it was still in the package when I sold the car.
Interestingly enough, my e-spark modules (6100M) were yellow, not red which tells me they are the same as the Accel 2005, also a Prestolite product, which is identical form and function to the (Unilite) e-spark... at 80% of the street price.
In that car, I was using the Unilite (e-spark) to trigger a Hyfire 6A, so the module is switching a very tiny current, which probably prolonged its life.
I had installed an additional ground strap between the engine case and the body per the advice of Century Performance. The Unilite module itself was grounded to the engine case at the M8 stud for the distributor clamp.
I had chosen not to use the Mallory power filter because, if you read their literature carefully, Mallory makes no guarantees of its efficacy.
I still use a Hyfire 6A in my '74 Thing, but it is triggered by a cast iron 019 Bosch distributor. Other than crankshaft triggered systems, I believe points/CDI is the way to go for reliability. If I see the points open and close, that's the end of the "diagnostic procedure".
Anyway, good luck with your project, Mondshine |
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Dale M. Samba Member
Joined: April 12, 2006 Posts: 20365 Location: Just a tiny bit west of Yosemite Valley
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Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2015 7:48 am Post subject: |
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1950split wrote: |
I need to be more specific in the explanation of my set-up :
I took the following options in the wiring :
-1- push and release starter button
-1- master toggle switch that controls :
a) a second toggle for the ignition;
b) a third toggle for the fuel pump.
This way I can prime an engine without ignition and fuel pump running.
- The master toggle switch gets current directly from the hot+ of the starter.
- The "big" red wire from the Hyfire is connected to the "ignition toggle switch" (a)
- The "small" red wire is connected to the "Master toggle" and gets current as soon as I switch on the "master toggle". => however the Mallory is not "ON" until I switch the "Ignition toggle" on.
The Unilite distributor is connected the following way to the set-up :
- GREEN wire of the Unilite to WHITE wire of the Hyfire;
- RED wire of the Unilite to SMALL RED wire of Hyfire;
- BROWN wire of the Unilite to ground.
What I don't get is that I have sparks with the "spark test procedure" described in the instructions (ground WHITE wire of the Hyfire and Coil/distributor cable, without cranking the engine) but don't have a single spark when I crank the engine.
I read somewhere on the forum that if battery voltage falls below certain level, the Hyfire does not start. However the battery I use is new and is fully charged. |
Instructions state unit will operate with battery voltage as low as 8 volts...
Big red wire direct to battery or through master disconnect (but not necessary). NOT TO IGNITION TOGGLE of test stand....BIG RED wire is POWER to BOX and box is only ON when small red wire has power from ignition switch.
Small red wire (ignition off/on for box and distribuitor) should be tied to ignition toggle.... NOT master toggle.... Master toggle should only act as master disconnect for all electrical of test stand.
You basically do not have firm grasp on concept of how to power the "box" ....You have red wires functionally reversed ...
Really do not understand need for master disconnect unless its in power lead between battery and starter...
IF "box" works in "grounding white wire test", if after correcting how its wired and problem remains its probably distributor....
http://prestoliteperformance.com/media/instruction...M_0000.pdf
Dale _________________ “Fear The Government That Wants To Take Your Guns" - Thomas Jefferson.
"Kellison Sand Piper Roadster" For Street & Show.
"Joe Pody Sandrover" Buggy with 2180 for Autocross (Sold)
============================================================
All suggestions and advice are purely my own opinion. You are free to ignore them if you wish ... |
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1950split Samba Member
Joined: December 08, 2005 Posts: 450
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Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2015 11:43 am Post subject: |
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Hi Dale,
I understand your comment about the reversed connections of both small and big red wires. However I don't understand in which way it could affect function of the box??
The unilite distributor was in use on another engine just before I attempted to run it on the engine that is on the bench. |
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Dale M. Samba Member
Joined: April 12, 2006 Posts: 20365 Location: Just a tiny bit west of Yosemite Valley
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Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2015 1:08 pm Post subject: |
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1950split wrote: |
Hi Dale,
I understand your comment about the reversed connections of both small and big red wires. However I don't understand in which way it could affect function of the box??
The unilite distributor was in use on another engine just before I attempted to run it on the engine that is on the bench. |
Not sure either, but it sure adds a extra layer of confusion to those of us trying to to help you when there is maybe several thousand miles of fiberoptic cable and 50 servers separating your computer screen and typing to my computer screen and reading....
Have you actually tested distributor NOW, just because it worked before is no guarantee it is good now ... Perhaps a faulty ground connection or poor 12volt power connection how good is green to white wire connection...
Not there to see it pretty much have to rely on information as you present it to do diagnostic... Pretty much like appliance trouble shooting on internet with customer service "is it plugged in?".... "Did you put the batteries in remote and facing right direction"...
Dale _________________ “Fear The Government That Wants To Take Your Guns" - Thomas Jefferson.
"Kellison Sand Piper Roadster" For Street & Show.
"Joe Pody Sandrover" Buggy with 2180 for Autocross (Sold)
============================================================
All suggestions and advice are purely my own opinion. You are free to ignore them if you wish ... |
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