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BooBoo's oval
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Joined: June 24, 2014
Posts: 22
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 Posted: Mon Jul 13, 2015 7:37 am Post subject: Leaky Oil Screen assembly |
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| I have a stock 36 HP '57 sedan. Just changed oil and cleaned oil screen. Replaced with new gaskets and now the thing leaks oil from the bottom plate of the screen. Ordered silicone gaskets from Wolfsburg West to try and stop the leak. Any other ideas out there? Someone told me not to replace the washers which I left off the bottom plate when I re-installed the screen. Could that be the problem? |
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EverettB 
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BooBoo's oval
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Joined: June 24, 2014
Posts: 22
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| Posted: Mon Jul 13, 2015 10:04 am Post subject: Leaky oil screen assembly |
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| The dripping appears to be from the studs. Good intel on the washers! The oil change kit I got from WW has new washers in it. I plan to try the silicone gaskets instead of the paper ones. How tight should the nuts be on the studs? I don't want to warp the bottom plate or the screen. I can't believe a VW mechanic with 38+ years on the job recommended I discard the washers!! |
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vwpackrat
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Joined: December 12, 2001
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Location: TX
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| Posted: Mon Jul 13, 2015 12:11 pm Post subject: |
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another common leak is over the years people using a "regular" hex open end nut that shows the exposed stud threads. The origianl vw nuts on the sump plate are a encapsulated nut that hides all the exposed stud threads which reduces leaks and oil drippin thru the threads.
another thing to check is over time at each stud pressure point you can get high spots in the sump cover plate where the pressure from tightening the nuts kinda warps the sump plate. I have gotten a tiger disc before on a grinder and will grind it flatter in the sump hole area so when the sump plate bolts up it will seat more flush with the gaskets, this is sometimes the cause of the gasket leaks because it is not applying enough pressure to the gaskets between each nut
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67 Westfalia |
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Gwdghiaguy
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Joined: December 06, 2013
Posts: 340
Location: Greenwood, SC
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| Posted: Mon Jul 13, 2015 12:54 pm Post subject: Re: Leaky oil screen assembly |
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| BooBoo's oval wrote: |
| ...How tight should the nuts be on the studs?... |
The idiot guide (which many people here say should only be used for entertainment purposes) says 5 ft. lbs. Just get them snug by using your smallest ratchet and don't go overboard! Ask me how I know...
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Bruce Berman
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Joined: April 13, 2004
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Location: Long Island, NY, USA
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| Posted: Mon Jul 13, 2015 1:03 pm Post subject: |
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| vwpackrat wrote: |
another common leak is over the years people using a "regular" hex open end nut that shows the exposed stud threads. The origianl vw nuts on the sump plate are a encapsulated nut that hides all the exposed stud threads which reduces leaks and oil drippin thru the threads.
another thing to check is over time at each stud pressure point you can get high spots in the sump cover plate where the pressure from tightening the nuts kinda warps the sump plate. I have gotten a tiger disc before on a grinder and will grind it flatter in the sump hole area so when the sump plate bolts up it will seat more flush with the gaskets, this is sometimes the cause of the gasket leaks because it is not applying enough pressure to the gaskets between each nut |
I believe the 25 & 36 HP engines used the conventional "open end" nut you had described to secure the oil drain plate to the engine. As the op has the 36 HP engine in his car, and assuming the nuts were not changed, that would be the correct style nut for his engine. It wasn't until later that VW switched to what you refer to as the encapsulated nut. My 1967 sedan with the 1500 engine had the later style nuts for securing the oil drain plate to the engine sump.
Bruce
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Factory original 1957 Type 1 Deluxe Sedan, with 13,000 miles. I purchased her from the estate of the original owner in 1978. Color: L324 Polar Silver, with light beige leatherette interior, dealer-installed Dehne fuel gauge and Motorola Volumatic radio. |
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vwpackrat
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| Posted: Mon Jul 13, 2015 1:12 pm Post subject: |
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you may be correct on that.............wudnt doubt after years of leaking is why they changed it to that type. I have heard of some guy putting permatex on the threads when puttin the nuts back on also.
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BooBoo's oval
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Joined: June 24, 2014
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| Posted: Mon Jul 13, 2015 1:13 pm Post subject: Leaky Oil Screen assembly |
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| Thanks all for your collective input. My car has the encapsulated nuts. I was concerned that the nuts were "bottoming out" on the stud and therefore not sealing correctly. Indeed, when I removed one of the nuts, the stud came out as well and is locked up tight on the nut. I am going to try the new silicone gaskets and put new washers back on and not "honk" down on the tightening and pray it works. Thanks All! |
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Bruce
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| Posted: Mon Jul 13, 2015 1:14 pm Post subject: |
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| vwpackrat wrote: |
| ... I have gotten a tiger disc before on a grinder and will grind it flatter in the sump hole area ...... |
This is not a good way to fix the plate. When you grind the plate, it is then thinner around the holes. That means it is much easier to warp it the next time you tighten the nuts.
Better is to straighten the plate around the holes. I've used two small steel blocks to sandwich the plate, then compress it with the vise or press.
Check the copper washers. The cheap kits give you copper plated steel washers that don't seal. Original washers are all copper.
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60ragtop
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| Posted: Mon Jul 13, 2015 2:00 pm Post subject: |
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or use 2 ball pein hammers, put the rounded end of one on the inside hole and rap sharply with the other hammer, works great for getting the holes back in line
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I've restored a large number too, but I don't toot my horn quite as loud.
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maybe he just snapped cause his car sucked  |
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vwpackrat
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| Posted: Mon Jul 13, 2015 2:08 pm Post subject: |
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I did the same with hammers i just use the the tiger disc to make the "ridge" it forms around the perimeter of the holes more smooth and flat. The metal Im grinding away is very minimal nad that sump plate is pretty thick and sturdy.
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stale air
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| Posted: Mon Jul 13, 2015 2:13 pm Post subject: Re: Leaky Oil Screen assembly |
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| BooBoo's oval wrote: |
| Ordered silicone gaskets from Wolfsburg West to try and stop the leak. |
Just and fyi, I have used the cork gaskets on my motor for years, and never had a leak. Decided to try out WW silicone gaskets, and now it leaks. My buddy had the same problem with them. So, using them may not help your situation.
Im just waiting for my next oil change, so I can switch back to the cork. 
| BooBoo's oval wrote: |
| My car has the encapsulated nuts. |
My 58 has them as well.
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vwpackrat
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| Posted: Mon Jul 13, 2015 2:26 pm Post subject: |
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not sure of the silicone oil gaskets never used but I tried the silicone valve cover gaskets and leaked like a sieve..........I personally think those are really only good for bolt on type valve covers
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EverettB
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| Posted: Mon Jul 13, 2015 5:24 pm Post subject: Re: Leaky oil screen assembly |
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| Gwdghiaguy wrote: |
| BooBoo's oval wrote: |
| ...How tight should the nuts be on the studs?... |
The idiot guide (which many people here say should only be used for entertainment purposes) says 5 ft. lbs. Just get them snug by using your smallest ratchet and don't go overboard! Ask me how I know... |
I use a tiny ratchet but I hold it right where the socket goes so basically not using the ratchet arm for any sort of real torque.
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Last edited by EverettB on Mon Jul 13, 2015 5:27 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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EverettB
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| Posted: Mon Jul 13, 2015 5:26 pm Post subject: Re: Leaky Oil Screen assembly |
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| stale air wrote: |
| BooBoo's oval wrote: |
| Ordered silicone gaskets from Wolfsburg West to try and stop the leak. |
Just and fyi, I have used the cork gaskets on my motor for years, and never had a leak. Decided to try out WW silicone gaskets, and now it leaks. My buddy had the same problem with them. So, using them may not help your situation.
Im just waiting for my next oil change, so I can switch back to the cork.
My 58 has them as well. |
Counterpoint:
I haven't tried it on a 36hp engine but the WW ones on my 1500cc seal fine.
No leaks.
I put them in on the last oil change so no feedback yet on multiple usages.
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txoval
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| Posted: Mon Jul 13, 2015 6:45 pm Post subject: |
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I remove the studs and use 6mm bolts to fasten the plate...
I run a 1.5 quart sump on my 36 which uses a thick billet alum screen plate, no warping and seals great |
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Eric&Barb
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| Posted: Mon Jul 13, 2015 9:04 pm Post subject: |
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| txoval wrote: |
I remove the studs and use 6mm bolts to fasten the plate...
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Bad idea. The soft case metal will wear quickly with bolts run in and out so often. Causing loose threads and later stripped threads.
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Bruce Berman
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Location: Long Island, NY, USA
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| Posted: Mon Jul 13, 2015 9:39 pm Post subject: Re: Leaky Oil Screen assembly |
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| stale air wrote: |
| BooBoo's oval wrote: |
| Ordered silicone gaskets from Wolfsburg West to try and stop the leak. |
Just and fyi, I have used the cork gaskets on my motor for years, and never had a leak. Decided to try out WW silicone gaskets, and now it leaks. My buddy had the same problem with them. So, using them may not help your situation.
Im just waiting for my next oil change, so I can switch back to the cork.
| BooBoo's oval wrote: |
| My car has the encapsulated nuts. |
My 58 has them as well. |
Me too. I have only used either the original VW paper and copper washer oil change gasket kits (when they were available) or the aftermarket kits for my 1967 sedan/1500 engine beginning in 1971, and my 1957 VW beginning in 1978. I have never had an oil leak of any consequence with the paper gaskets at the drain plate with either car. The VW engineers clearly knew what they were doing here.
A small amount of oil leakage is normal with these cars at the oil strainer and drain plate interfaces, typically on the order of a few drops of oil between changes, so please be guided accordingly. Trying to stop this minimal leakage by brute force methods such as the application of Permatex, etc., to the drain plate retaining studs is a waste of time in this regard. Put a Pep Boys absorbent mat under the engine to absorb any leaking oil and to keep your garage floor clean, and better yet, put a sheet of cardboard on top of the mat, so you readily see how much or how little oil you may be leaking.
Like Harleys, VWs always mark their spot..............
Bruce
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Factory original 1957 Type 1 Deluxe Sedan, with 13,000 miles. I purchased her from the estate of the original owner in 1978. Color: L324 Polar Silver, with light beige leatherette interior, dealer-installed Dehne fuel gauge and Motorola Volumatic radio. |
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My57Oval
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Joined: March 10, 2005
Posts: 624
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| Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2015 4:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Ive never seen cork gaskets for the sump plate. Poster must have switched engine areas and was thinking of valve cover gaskets. |
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txoval
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| Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2015 6:59 pm Post subject: |
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The difference is, my bolts are going into a billet aluminum sump, not the magnesium case...
| Eric&Barb wrote: |
| txoval wrote: |
I remove the studs and use 6mm bolts to fasten the plate...
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Bad idea. The soft case metal will wear quickly with bolts run in and out so often. Causing loose threads and later stripped threads. |
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