To repair or not to repair. That is the question!

little_waters

I have an air cooled 81 vanagon camper. The body is in pretty mint condition. Literally no rust on it, new shocks, lots of work done to keep it looking nice, and generally well maintained. But the engine is tired and I just found out there's no compression in the #2 cylinder.

I have no experience with car repairs but I really really want to learn! Now my question is, do I fork over the cash for a mechanic to repair this or do I attempt to do this as a learning exercise and try to fix it myself? This might be more than I can chew but thought I'd ask for the advice of the more experienced owners on this thread. Would this be a good project for me to learn on?

Also, would it be worth me just fixing the one cylinder? The engine has over 300k on it. Should I consider a full rebuild? Or I've read of some ppl installing plumbing and adding a jetta or subaru engine. Is this even worth looking into?

I'm in Vancouver so I'd be taking the car to Adria Imports if I were to get it repaired. Tried the Bug Shop but they had a 3 week wait list to even look at the van. Anyone have any experience with either of them?

Thanks!

Jake de Villiers · Posted: Tue Jul 21, 2015 10:36 am Post subject:

The Bug Shop has a three week waiting list for a reason; they are the best in BC. Very Happy

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Kombi///M3 · Posted: Tue Jul 21, 2015 10:41 am Post subject:

I'm pretty handy and work on my vans, but when it comes to internal engine work..I leave that to my mech. I know Ed from Bug shop dealt with him before, no exp with Adria but everytime I drove by it there's westy's everywhere..must be busy. I take mine to Dwaine's in Langley, he's pretty good. Known him for years now. I would just get it rebuilt or fixed. As for the engine convert. If you have the cash that's an idea. Though air cooled are pretty easy to work on.
But definitely not something I would tackle to learn on if I don't have mechanical exp.
Good luck.

little_waters · Posted: Tue Jul 21, 2015 11:05 am Post subject:

Thanks for the replies!
Ok so probably won't be trying to fix that myself then...

Hmmm maybe I should just hold out for Ed to take care of it.
Is there anyone else in Vancouver that anyone would recommend?

PDXWesty · Posted: Tue Jul 21, 2015 11:13 am Post subject:

It's common on an air cooled motor for low compression to be just a valve adjustment. Make sure that's all you need before you go tearing into the engine.
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Merian · Posted: Tue Jul 21, 2015 11:18 am Post subject:

you can certainly learn to rebuild an engine, and an air cooled VW is a really good place to start

go slow, take your time and double check everything

take a course at a community college for fundamentals

it's all in repair manuals, it isn't like you are hotrodding some titanium Porsche motor with 16 cylinders

little_waters · Posted: Tue Jul 21, 2015 11:39 am Post subject:

So would a leak down test tell me if it's just the valve?

Taking a course is a great idea! I've looked in the past and mostly came up with full time/apprentice programs (no evening courses for just beginners) but I'll look again. I have the Bentley, and the How to Keep your VW Alive which I find helpful. A rebuild on my own might be pretty daunting at this point with out help though. Also I don't have a garage Smile

so that could be a challenge.

?Waldo? · Posted: Tue Jul 21, 2015 11:41 am Post subject:

It's also fairly common for 0 compression on an air-cooled to be a dropped valve seat which would require replacing the cyl head but not necessarily splitting the case.

Wilson's book on rebuilding air-cooleds is really good. Just double-check the torque specs with the Bentley as there are errors.

a2d2 · Posted: Tue Jul 21, 2015 11:45 am Post subject:

Randy in Maine · Posted: Tue Jul 21, 2015 11:49 am Post subject:

It is also possible that one of the hydraulic lifters is failing to pump up correctly, but dropping a valve seat is not unheard of.

Merian · Posted: Tue Jul 21, 2015 11:54 am Post subject:

if it fails the testing, you want a garage, carport, or "flat place" to R&R the engine, and to clean it

I rebuilt my Bus motor in a living room...

little_waters · Posted: Tue Jul 21, 2015 1:48 pm Post subject:

ad2d and Merian - Out of curiosity, how long did it take you to rebuild your engines?

Sounds like that book by Tom Wilson would be good to have even if I don't do a full rebuild

Merian · Posted: Tue Jul 21, 2015 2:14 pm Post subject:

no idea - it was the '70s - I rebuilt and hotrodded a Pooschey motor about 10 years ago, but don't recall how long that took either

if you had all the parts, tools, etc. laid out ready to go you could do it in a few days - assuming some machinist didn't take a long time working on the heads

figure on a few weeks if you are good at task mgmt.

or... buy a used motor and rebuild that, then swap them & rebuild the other one & sell it

zippyslug31 · Posted: Tue Jul 21, 2015 2:30 pm Post subject:

No experience with car repairs and the first thing you want to try and tackle is potentially a motor rebuild? How much time and money (for tools) are you willing to spend?

There's plenty of folks that are self taught and damn good mechanics, but I'd advise taking a more metered approach to learning about car repairs. Your van isn't the most complicated thing to roam the roads, but there are still a lot of parts that make it move.

Maybe try and fix some easier things first and if that goes well then gradually move toward your motor. If these first, "easier" repairs don't go well then make an appointment with a qualified mechanic and thank yourself that you didn't get yourself in over your head.

My two pennies.
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little_waters · Posted: Tue Jul 21, 2015 2:47 pm Post subject:

Thanks zippyslug, this is exactly why I'm asking if trying to fix this issue is too much for this newb. Definitely don't plan on doing a rebuild with my experience at this point without help, but want to explore my options since the engine may not need to be rebuilt. I want to learn, but maybe this isn't the right project for that.

I'm super interested in hearing how others tackled a rebuild with little experience.

dobryan · Posted: Tue Jul 21, 2015 2:59 pm Post subject:

So you can do this, but expect to do it wrong a few times along the way and have to go back and 'fix' things. If you have the patience there isn't any good reason why you should not do it.
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little_waters · Posted: Tue Jul 21, 2015 3:14 pm Post subject:

I really like the idea of getting a second running engine from a parts van and rebuilding that as a way to learn. There are some DIY labs and co-ops here in Vancouver so I could potentially become a member and use that space to learn and make a mess in. But that would be the long term goal..

a2d2 · Posted: Tue Jul 21, 2015 3:18 pm Post subject:

photogdave · Posted: Tue Jul 21, 2015 3:19 pm Post subject:

Two more shops of note in Vancouver:
http://www.rudyandpetermotors.com/
http://www.georgeandbernysrepairs.com/

I think Rudy and Peter is more aircooled friendly.
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Howesight · Posted: Tue Jul 21, 2015 4:40 pm Post subject:

Air cooled engines appear simple, but getting them built properly is a dying art. The proper parts are expensive. Cylinder heads are the parts most prone to failure on these engines.

Realistically, the Type 4 engine was marginal even for the Bay window bus, which weighed hundreds of pounds less than the Vanagon Westfalia. If you are okay with always driving slowly to preserve the engine, you might find a rebuilt AC engine acceptable.

I never thought I would say this, but have you considered a wasserboxer engine as a conversion? With the numbers of engine conversions going on, there are a lot of running WBX engines for sale on the Samba and various Craigslist sites and Ebay. The WBX is not that much less expensive to rebuild, but at least it will outlast an AC engine in hard usage. I know that some folks with AC vanagons and good maintenance habits will chime in about the long life of their type 4 engines, but I believe these people and their vans to be exceptions to the rule. The WBX will give you far more power and greater reliability.

If you are patient, you can find deals on people removing the less sexy of conversion engines (eg Subaru 2.2 being replaced with 2.5, Tiico conversions, etc) where the engine wiring harness is already complete and working.

If you are worried about the classic status of the AC Vanagon, it is possible, I believe, to get enough radiator air without cutting the lower grill opening, but you would need to build an air scoop under the bumper and take care with ducting.

Replacing the AC engine with a conversion engine also means you will have heat in winter!
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