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busdaddy
Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004
Posts: 51145
Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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 Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2015 8:04 am Post subject: |
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| Amskeptic wrote: |
| "D" does not mean doghouse. It is the 1600 pulley for the 905mm belt. |
Now I've gotta know what the 900mm belt pulley looks like..
Sorry for the hijack Dana.
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Dana Champion
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2012
Posts: 633
Location: Ventura County, CA
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| Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2015 1:30 pm Post subject: |
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Busdaddy, it's all good, after all its just a free for all !
Link
BTW, in setting my timing with test light, do I set it from the the left v groove, which I believe is TDC ?
Peace  |
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Tcash
Samba Member
Joined: July 20, 2011
Posts: 12844
Location: San Jose, California, USA
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| Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2015 1:49 pm Post subject: |
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I set it from the the left v groove, which is TDC.
Yes that is affirmative.
Look at the 68-70 timing marks on the crankshaft pulley.
Good day
Tcash |
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Dana Champion
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2012
Posts: 633
Location: Ventura County, CA
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| Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2015 2:14 pm Post subject: |
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| Tcash wrote: |
I set it from the the left v groove, which is TDC.
Yes that is affirmative.
Good day
Tcash |
Thank you sir! |
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Dana Champion
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2012
Posts: 633
Location: Ventura County, CA
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| Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2015 11:11 pm Post subject: |
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Setting the timing with a test light.
Clamp the test light wire to the negative side of the coil, and ground the tester. With the valves, breaker points adjusted, and crank pulley set @ TDC (on this setup), and the distributor loosened, ready to fire on #1 cylinder, l rotate the distributor counterclockwise to just where the light comes on. That's where the engine fires (thanks Robbie). I will check it also by rotating the pulley to make sure the light comes on as we reach TDC.
This has been edited as per asiab3 ' s following post. Thanks buddy
Link
Carburetor adjusted by ear. Audio is a little challenged 
Link
Fuel pressure test next
Last edited by Dana Champion on Sun Nov 08, 2015 6:32 pm; edited 3 times in total |
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airschooled
Air-Schooled
Joined: April 04, 2012
Posts: 12722
Location: on a bike ride somewhere
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| Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2015 11:30 pm Post subject: |
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Hi there,
I don't think your static timing is exactly what should be happening. The engine fires the instant the points open, so we want the distributor set to the INSTANT the light changes.
My preferred method is to leave the distributor loose like you have it, pointing to the plug wire for #1. Turn the distributor clockwise until the test light goes out, then SLOWLY turn it counter-clockwise until the light JUST comes on. Clamp the distributor, and check your work by rotating the crank pulley and looking for the light to change RIGHT as the TDC notch passes the case parting line.
Robbie
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Dana Champion
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2012
Posts: 633
Location: Ventura County, CA
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| Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2015 11:34 pm Post subject: |
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Picked up this Bosch fuel pressure/ vacuum tester @ Oreillys tonite.
I was stoked.... at first, then I realized, on the way home, that Bosch is not what it used to be. Made in China; really  
Going to pressure test the fuel pump. Apparently looking for around 3 psi.
Since it's also a vacuum gauge, I'm wondering what kind of vacuum readings I should look for ?
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Dana Champion
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2012
Posts: 633
Location: Ventura County, CA
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| Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2015 11:44 pm Post subject: |
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| asiab3 wrote: |
Hi there,
I don't think your static timing is exactly what should be happening. The engine fires the instant the points open, so we want the distributor set to the INSTANT the light changes.
My preferred method is to leave the distributor loose like you have it, pointing to the plug wire for #1. Turn the distributor clockwise until the test light goes out, then SLOWLY turn it counter-clockwise until the light JUST comes on. Clamp the distributor, and check your work by rotating the crank pulley and looking for the light to change RIGHT as the TDC notch passes the case parting line.
Robbie |
Makes sense, Robbie.
Thanks, man !.... Sometimes you have to do something wrong, so you can get it right. 
I'm due to go through the gears! I need to replace my front passenger tire stem, and figure out where my brake fluid is disappearing to. The reservoir runs down with no visible sign of fluid loss. 
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Tom Powell
Samba Member
Joined: December 01, 2005
Posts: 4855
Location: Kaneohe
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| Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2015 11:57 pm Post subject: |
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| asiab3 wrote: |
Hi there,
I don't think your static timing is exactly what should be happening. The engine fires the instant the points open, so we want the distributor set to the INSTANT the light changes.
My preferred method is to leave the distributor loose like you have it, pointing to the plug wire for #1. Turn the distributor clockwise until the test light goes out, then SLOWLY turn it counter-clockwise until the light JUST comes on. Clamp the distributor, and check your work by rotating the crank pulley and looking for the light to change RIGHT as the TDC notch passes the case parting line.
Robbie |
For this engine: 1600 SP engine ... Solex 30 PICT 3 carb., with a 113 905 205 T distributor.
Shouldn't that be when the 7.5* BTDC mark passes the case parting line?
Aloha
tp |
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airschooled
Air-Schooled
Joined: April 04, 2012
Posts: 12722
Location: on a bike ride somewhere
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| Posted: Wed Nov 04, 2015 12:15 am Post subject: |
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| Tom Powell wrote: |
| asiab3 wrote: |
Hi there,
I don't think your static timing is exactly what should be happening. The engine fires the instant the points open, so we want the distributor set to the INSTANT the light changes.
My preferred method is to leave the distributor loose like you have it, pointing to the plug wire for #1. Turn the distributor clockwise until the test light goes out, then SLOWLY turn it counter-clockwise until the light JUST comes on. Clamp the distributor, and check your work by rotating the crank pulley and looking for the light to change RIGHT as the TDC notch passes the case parting line.
Robbie |
For this engine: 1600 SP engine ... Solex 30 PICT 3 carb., with a 113 905 205 T distributor.
Shouldn't that be when the 7.5* BTDC mark passes the case parting line?
Aloha
tp |
For ten thousand miles of my own engine, 0* with a 205T and 30pict3 has been a winning combo. According to Bentley, Muir, and Old Volks:
Distributor: VW 113-905-205T, Bosch 0231 137 035 or 036
Can Use: VW 113-905-205M, Bosch 0231 137 021
Timing Set At:: 0deg TDC Static or @ 800-950rpm w/strobe w/vacuum hose disconnected and plugged
Advance/Retard Range: Vacuum (Advance Only): 17-19deg @ 1.3 In. Hg, 32-35deg @ 3.2 In. Hg
The 205T and 205M statically time to 0*. The 205K and 205L static time to 7.5*btdc.
Do you time your 205T to 7.5*? If you do, you're probably not hurting anything up in the snowy mountains besides your heater output, but a summer drive like that could cook something metal and important…
Robbie
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wcfvw69 
Samba Purist
Joined: June 10, 2004
Posts: 13389
Location: Arizona
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| Posted: Wed Nov 04, 2015 6:49 am Post subject: |
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I use the static timing to initially fire it up if I've pulled the distributor. I then throw a timing light on it and KNOW it's set to 0 at idle.
Dana, the engine sounds good at idle. I like how picky you're being while insuring everything is set correctly!
Keep up the good work.
_________________
Contact me at [email protected]
Follow me on instagram @sparxwerksllc
Decades of VW and VW parts restoration experience.
The Samba member since 2004.
**Now rebuilding throttle bodies for VW's and Porsche's**
**Restored German Bosch distributors for sale or I can restore yours**
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Tom Powell
Samba Member
Joined: December 01, 2005
Posts: 4855
Location: Kaneohe
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| Posted: Wed Nov 04, 2015 8:24 am Post subject: |
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| asiab3 wrote: |
| Tom Powell wrote: |
| asiab3 wrote: |
Hi there,
I don't think your static timing is exactly what should be happening. The engine fires the instant the points open, so we want the distributor set to the INSTANT the light changes.
My preferred method is to leave the distributor loose like you have it, pointing to the plug wire for #1. Turn the distributor clockwise until the test light goes out, then SLOWLY turn it counter-clockwise until the light JUST comes on. Clamp the distributor, and check your work by rotating the crank pulley and looking for the light to change RIGHT as the TDC notch passes the case parting line.
Robbie |
For this engine: 1600 SP engine ... Solex 30 PICT 3 carb., with a 113 905 205 T distributor.
Shouldn't that be when the 7.5* BTDC mark passes the case parting line?
Aloha
tp |
For ten thousand miles of my own engine, 0* with a 205T and 30pict3 has been a winning combo. According to Bentley, Muir, and Old Volks:
Distributor: VW 113-905-205T, Bosch 0231 137 035 or 036
Can Use: VW 113-905-205M, Bosch 0231 137 021
Timing Set At:: 0deg TDC Static or @ 800-950rpm w/strobe w/vacuum hose disconnected and plugged
Advance/Retard Range: Vacuum (Advance Only): 17-19deg @ 1.3 In. Hg, 32-35deg @ 3.2 In. Hg
The 205T and 205M statically time to 0*. The 205K and 205L static time to 7.5*btdc.
Do you time your 205T to 7.5*? If you do, you're probably not hurting anything up in the snowy mountains besides your heater output, but a summer drive like that could cook something metal and important…
Robbie |
I've never statically timed my engine and am not familiar with the corret procedure for any engine. I have two 205T distributors, both with new points, condensers and the points gap set on the bench. I have a punch mark on the engine case.
I swap in the spare distributor when needed with it lined up with the punch mark and set the timing at 3000 rpm, check the dwell and let the idle timing fall where it may, which is usually 7.5* at idle.
I assumed that the same 7.5* would be where the engine was statically timed. but ...
Aloha
tp |
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wcfvw69
Samba Purist
Joined: June 10, 2004
Posts: 13389
Location: Arizona
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| Posted: Wed Nov 04, 2015 9:57 am Post subject: |
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Tom,
Just an FYI.. You're setting your "T" distributor like an SVDA w/the vacuum advance hose off and plugged or a mechanical only 009 distributor.
Your "T" distributor is a vacuum advance only distributor and your reading is not very accurate the way you're setting it. Most people with vacuum only distributors set them statically or use a timing light at idle to set them at TDC or 0.
Right now, for a "T" distributor, you're too far advanced and it will run hotter.
_________________
Contact me at [email protected]
Follow me on instagram @sparxwerksllc
Decades of VW and VW parts restoration experience.
The Samba member since 2004.
**Now rebuilding throttle bodies for VW's and Porsche's**
**Restored German Bosch distributors for sale or I can restore yours**
**Restored German Pierburg fuel pumps for sale or I can restore yours**
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Tcash
Samba Member
Joined: July 20, 2011
Posts: 12844
Location: San Jose, California, USA
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Tom Powell
Samba Member
Joined: December 01, 2005
Posts: 4855
Location: Kaneohe
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| Posted: Wed Nov 04, 2015 12:10 pm Post subject: |
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| wcfvw69 wrote: |
Tom,
Just an FYI.. You're setting your "T" distributor like an SVDA w/the vacuum advance hose off and plugged or a mechanical only 009 distributor.
Your "T" distributor is a vacuum advance only distributor and your reading is not very accurate the way you're setting it. Most people with vacuum only distributors set them statically or use a timing light at idle to set them at TDC or 0.
Right now, for a "T" distributor, you're too far advanced and it will run hotter. |
Holy cow. I've been doing it that way for the last thirty years. If I recall I set it at TDC on my first tune up after purchase in the '80's and experienced a lack of power and backfiring on deceleration.
I live in Hawaii and use the camper when I'm on the mainland. All my manuals and notes are also on the mainland. The only info I have here and now is what is stored somewhere in my old and abused brain.
Busdaddy has published his timing procedures many times and I'll start doing a search for that. But if I remember it was 28-30* max advance at 3000 rpm with the vacuum hose connected.
I have experienced some overheating in Death Valley and on long hill climbs before installing a deep sump, but no apparent engine damage.
I started a post regarding ignition timing in 2008
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=347675&highlight=
from this source
http://www.vw-resource.com/34pict3.html#timing
"This method will also work for the 30PICT/3 ... 1300/1500/1600 engines with single vacuum distributor - 7.5BTDC. This is set static - engine off (or at idle with a timing light and the vacuum line disconnected)."
I'll do a search for BD's many postings on timing and update my reply when I find it, but in the meantime it seems to me that the goal is the correct max advance at cruise rpm and static and idle timing are only a means to get into the ballpark.
Aloha
tp |
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Tom Powell
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Joined: December 01, 2005
Posts: 4855
Location: Kaneohe
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| Posted: Wed Nov 04, 2015 12:33 pm Post subject: |
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Here's the BD sermon:
| busdaddy wrote: |
| 69doublecab wrote: |
| I was of the belief that one timed it running with all hoses connected and set to about 5 AFTER TDC is that not correct? |
It was, when all the parts were new and matched to each other with no mixing or substitutions anywhere. Now it's much safer to time at speed (that's where the DVDA's original idle settings worked out to at speed anyways)
Here's the sermon:
First you need to determine exactly where TDC is on your pulley and then set the timing at speed like this: Here's my timing for noobs rundown (keep in mind this assumes you have a degree wheel, timing scale or dial advance timing light and know where TDC really is, if you don't understand the marks on your type 1 pulley read this: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=251672&highlight=stock+pulley+marks ). Or if type 4 see this: http://www.ratwell.com/technical/FindTimingMark.html
If you only have one hose attached to your distributor pull it off, you don't need to cap it (no need on single hose systems), if you have 2 pull them both off but plug the one that was connected to the nipple facing the distributor (retard). Now connect the timing light to the battery and the #1 plug wire according to the timing light instructions (and set it to zero if it's the type with adjustments). Now start the engine and shoot the timing light at the scale and pulley (hold the light in your right hand), see the mark on the pulley?, good. Now using your left hand slowly open the throttle on the side of the carb or throttle body (move it the same way the cable pulls it) and watch the timing mark VS: the scale, the mark on the pulley should start to move to the left, open the throttle a little more and continue until the mark no longer moves to the left any more (yes it's loud, isn't it?), give it a bit more throttle just to confirm the mark is staying put at wherever it stopped (hopefully 28 degrees) and then release the throttle. If it stopped at 28 move on to carb/FI adjustment, if it went past or didn't make it all the way loosen the distributor clamp a little and turn the distributor a few degrees one way or the other (you pick, if it's worse go the other way), repeat until you find the happy spot and don't forget to tighten the clamp when you are done (make sure the distributor is pushed down all the way into the case too). Avoid loose fitting clothing and long hair near spinning fans and belts too, no need for a trip to emergency. Now put the hose back on, pack up the timing light and move on to carb or FI adjustment. |
Aloha
tp |
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busdaddy
Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004
Posts: 51145
Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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| Posted: Wed Nov 04, 2015 12:43 pm Post subject: |
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That method applies to SVDA and DVDA distributors, the SVSA requires static timing, or with a light at idle with the hose off.
Since it has no mechanical advance all it's action is based on vacuum, you can't simulate that in the driveway, but luckily we know what the maximum advance it's capable of is so do the math backwards from that to find the idle or static setting.
_________________
Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!
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Tom Powell
Samba Member
Joined: December 01, 2005
Posts: 4855
Location: Kaneohe
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| Posted: Wed Nov 04, 2015 1:05 pm Post subject: |
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Here's my logic for a 205T vacuum only advance distributor:
In the driveway you can run the engine rpm up and down around 3000+. With a timing light and the vacuum hose disconnected the timing won't change. With the vacuum hose connected, at times, the advance will reach a maximum. Set the distributor so that the maximum is 30*BTDC. Let the idle and/or static timing fall where they may.
RTBS
Aloha
tp |
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wcfvw69
Samba Purist
Joined: June 10, 2004
Posts: 13389
Location: Arizona
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| Posted: Wed Nov 04, 2015 1:15 pm Post subject: |
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While Rob and Dave's site has excellent information, there are errors on it. The 7.5 BTDC timing is NOT for the 205T distributor.
Bus & Pickup 1969-1970 * 1600
Distributor: VW 113-905-205T, Bosch 0231 137 035 or 036
Can Use: VW 113-905-205M, Bosch 0231 137 021
Replacement: VW 111-905-205AA, Bosch 0231 137 039
Points: 01 013
Points Replacement Plate Assy: VW 111-905-227B, Bosch 1237 110 139
Condensor: 02 007 - Note: If equipped w/AC use 02 069
Rotor: 04 033
Cap: 03 010
Parts Kit (Washers, Shims & Hardware): 059-998-211, Bosch 1237 070 007
Coil: 00 015 (Blue Coil: 00 012)
Vacuum Can: 07 024 (Replacement uses 1237 121 400)
Ignition Wires: 09 001
Spark Plug: W8AC
Timing Set At:: 0deg TDC Static or @ 800-950rpm w/strobe w/vacuum hose disconnected and plugged
Advance/Retard Range: Vacuum (Advance Only): 17-19deg @ 1.3 In. Hg, 32-35deg @ 3.2 In. Hg
The 205K was a 67 distributor and was set to 7.5 BTDC as are other distributors as well. The difference in the "K" and "T" distributor is the vacuum can and the length of the arm on the vacuum can that pulls the advance plate inside the distributor. I had a NOS can that wasn't in the box and had no numbers on the arm or body. What helped me identify it was the length the arm pulled and the number and location of the mounting holes on the can.
Now, I have a "K" distributor on my 67 bug and the "T" on my 69 bug. I time both at idle with a timing light. You can't set it at 3000 RPM for the reasons Busdaddy stated.
_________________
Contact me at [email protected]
Follow me on instagram @sparxwerksllc
Decades of VW and VW parts restoration experience.
The Samba member since 2004.
**Now rebuilding throttle bodies for VW's and Porsche's**
**Restored German Bosch distributors for sale or I can restore yours**
**Restored German Pierburg fuel pumps for sale or I can restore yours**
**Restored Porsche fuel pumps or I can restore yours**
**Restored Porsche distributors or I can restore yours** |
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Tom Powell
Samba Member
Joined: December 01, 2005
Posts: 4855
Location: Kaneohe
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| Posted: Wed Nov 04, 2015 1:39 pm Post subject: |
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"Timing Set At:: 0deg TDC Static or @ 800-950rpm w/strobe w/vacuum hose disconnected and plugged"
What would be the resulting timing at idle if the vacuum hose was reconnected? I would assume that it would advance. Perhaps to 7.5*BTDC.
A others have stated: Set the advance at 3000rpm and let the idle timing fall where it may.
I'm on TheSamba for knowledge and a slam is welcomed if my procedures are detrimental to my engine. I've seen knowledgeable VW use this timing procedure and it has worked for me for thirty years without apparent damage to the engine.
Aloha
tp |
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