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Sodo
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2007
Posts: 9610
Location: Western WA
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 Posted: Wed Apr 10, 2019 9:56 pm Post subject: Re: Oil Cooler ports for Manual Vanagon transaxle |
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| nmerrill wrote: |
Most seem to be pulling oil out drain hole, or drain hole area, and returning to the front gear case, etc.
So, y'all arn't starving the ring and pinion of oil level are you?
That is, pull 1-2 GPM out the drain plug... does it flow back into there at the same rate? |
Sorry I missed this.
The passageways between the transmission case and diff area are large.
Steve Arndt Ill take a pic of how I cut around my drain.
_________________
'90 Westy EJ25, 2Peloquins, 3knobs, pressure-oiled GT mainshaft, filtered, cooled gearbox
'87 Tintop w 47k 53k, '12 SmallCar EJ25, cooled filtered gearbox
....KTMs, GasGas, SPOT mtb |
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Jason-B
Samba Member
Joined: August 24, 2018
Posts: 8
Location: Sydney
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| Posted: Thu Oct 31, 2019 2:08 pm Post subject: Re: Oil Cooler ports for Manual Vanagon transaxle |
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very interesting topic I have been following for a while, I have just had my gearbox recondition (5 speed 2wd) and I am running a Subaru motor and we will be doing long drives in the hot Australian summers. I am in the processs of setting up a cooler with fan and a VDO oil pump with some sort of inline filter, I have already installed a VDO transmission gauge sender near the sump plug. I thinking of just using the sump and filler plugs as my in and outs for the cooler. I would assume I will need to put in extra olio accommodate the use of the extra components I am installing so I don't run low when the pump is on ( pump is 4 bar pressure and 160 litres per hour.
Last edited by Jason-B on Thu Oct 31, 2019 2:17 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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ALIKA T3
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Joined: July 30, 2009
Posts: 6357
Location: Honolulu,Hawaii and France
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Jason-B
Samba Member
Joined: August 24, 2018
Posts: 8
Location: Sydney
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| Posted: Thu Oct 31, 2019 5:26 pm Post subject: Re: Oil Cooler ports for Manual Vanagon transaxle |
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| ALIKA T3 wrote: |
0.7 gpm for the pump, should be good??
What's that VDO pump you're mentioning? |
Hi Alika, this is the VDO pump. allot of people run these on race cars.
https://www.protecfuelpumps.com/product/vdo-oil-pump-11821/ |
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Sodo
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2007
Posts: 9610
Location: Western WA
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| Posted: Thu Oct 31, 2019 6:32 pm Post subject: Re: Oil Cooler ports for Manual Vanagon transaxle |
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On EBay those VDO pumps cost about $350-450 USD and all come from Europe (Italy, UK, Latvia). For similar price, Weddle’s pump is about 3x the flow (2gpm) and 3x pressure (20?psi).
https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trk...001Z+11821
Hard to say what flow is necessary though for a cool runnings 4.86. If you run 6.17 R&P thats a much hotter transaxle. And transaxle “problems” cause heat but cooling is not the correct solution for trans problems.
_________________
'90 Westy EJ25, 2Peloquins, 3knobs, pressure-oiled GT mainshaft, filtered, cooled gearbox
'87 Tintop w 47k 53k, '12 SmallCar EJ25, cooled filtered gearbox
....KTMs, GasGas, SPOT mtb |
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Jason-B
Samba Member
Joined: August 24, 2018
Posts: 8
Location: Sydney
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| Posted: Thu Oct 31, 2019 11:10 pm Post subject: Re: Oil Cooler ports for Manual Vanagon transaxle |
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| Sodo wrote: |
On EBay those VDO pumps cost about $350-450 USD and all come from Europe (Italy, UK, Latvia). For similar price, Weddle’s pump is about 3x the flow (2gpm) and 3x pressure (20?psi).
https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trk...001Z+11821
Hard to say what flow is necessary though for a cool runnings 4.86. If you run 6.17 R&P thats a much hotter transaxle. And transaxle “problems” cause heat but cooling is not the correct solution for trans problems. |
Yeah not sure what is a good flow rate, here in Australia VDO pumps are $280.00 Aud, the waddle pumps is a brass gear driven pump and looks the goods, but the freight to Australia is $$$ |
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crazyvwvanman
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Joined: January 28, 2008
Posts: 9935
Location: Orbiting San Diego
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danfromsyr
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Joined: March 01, 2004
Posts: 15144
Location: Syracuse, NY
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gears
Samba Member
Joined: October 28, 2002
Posts: 4391
Location: Tamarack, Bend, Kailua
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| Posted: Fri Nov 01, 2019 7:52 am Post subject: Re: Oil Cooler ports for Manual Vanagon transaxle |
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Don't accidentally purchase the fuel pump (which looks almost identical)
_________________
aka Pablo, Geary
9.36 @ 146 in '86 Hot & Sticky
'90 Syncro Westy SVX
'87 Syncro GL 2.5
https://guardtransaxle.com |
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danfromsyr
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Joined: March 01, 2004
Posts: 15144
Location: Syracuse, NY
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| Posted: Fri Nov 01, 2019 8:42 am Post subject: Re: Oil Cooler ports for Manual Vanagon transaxle |
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there is also this gear driven pump less than $100 on fleabay
looks more capable for moving any really thick or cold oil.. though why would you circulate cold gear oil?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-Electric-Oil-Pump-for...0943168466
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Syncro Jael
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Joined: December 19, 2013
Posts: 2204
Location: Utah
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| Posted: Fri Nov 01, 2019 10:00 am Post subject: Re: Oil Cooler ports for Manual Vanagon transaxle |
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| danfromsyr wrote: |
there is also this gear driven pump less than $100 on fleabay looks more capable for moving any really thick or cold oil.. though why would you circulate cold gear oil?
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I turn on my pump at 80°f to circulate and filter the gear oil. Once you see the flow that covers 4th gear and the main shaft bearing it makes sense.
In this clip you can see how much oil is picked up as the engine is started. Then you will notice me turning the circulation pump on and off. This is why I turn the circulation/filtering pump on as soon as possible. I have also positioned my cooling radiators so in the winter months the cold air does not go through them.
Link
_________________
1987 Syncro Westfalia Hightop - NAHT
Subaru EJ25 Forged Frankenmotor, Triple Knob.
Jael = (Mountain Goat) |
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Sodo
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2007
Posts: 9610
Location: Western WA
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| Posted: Fri Nov 01, 2019 11:29 am Post subject: Re: Oil Cooler ports for Manual Vanagon transaxle |
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| danfromsyr wrote: |
| there is also this gear driven pump less than $100 on fleabay |
Dan I think thats the same pump as the Amarine.
I gave the $63 Amazon (Amarine) pump a bit more than a good eye-ballin' but never tested it with gear oil.
Agreed there's no real good reason to pump cold oil; other than "by error". Basically it can 'happen' that it accidentally pumps cold oil and would be ideal if it doesn't destroy itself.
Thermostatically controlled (pump turns on only when warm) can reduce the errors.
Here's the extent of my testing in another thread:Syncro rattle grinding whine noise. Bad VC, transaxle, diff/
Just volume and jet-speed. It needs further testing.
I looked inside the $63 pump, I didn't see anything "alarming" in the construction. The Weddle motor is a higher quality unit but I can't prove anything and have done no significant testing with gear oil (longevity etc.)
The $63 Amarine pump uses "skateboard size bearings" and I'll make a guess that they're el-cheapo bearings (.18cents each). So you could buy a set of "Bones" at 8 bearings/$18 and you will probably never need the other six.
I have passed the Amarine pump on to my doctor....  he's gonna run it on his van and test like that, which could take awhile if it's any good.
The Amarine duty cycle rating is "30 minutes" but they don't say at what "amps draw" etc (viscosity or back-pressure) so what can "30 mins" possibly mean (to our application?).
Another note, the Weddle has helical-cut gears, and the Amarine has straight-cut gears.
The Weddle gear-pump is significantly quieter than the Amarine gear pump.
But you can buy about 7 Amarine pumps for one Weddle.
Or just have a spare on-hand.
If anyone wants to crowdfund me appx $63 I'll buy another Amarine pump and set it up on a continuous test, pumping oil, check the flowrate and and see how long it will pump oil "continuously". minutes? hours? days? weeks?
_________________
'90 Westy EJ25, 2Peloquins, 3knobs, pressure-oiled GT mainshaft, filtered, cooled gearbox
'87 Tintop w 47k 53k, '12 SmallCar EJ25, cooled filtered gearbox
....KTMs, GasGas, SPOT mtb |
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ALIKA T3
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Joined: July 30, 2009
Posts: 6357
Location: Honolulu,Hawaii and France
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Sodo
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2007
Posts: 9610
Location: Western WA
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| Posted: Sat Nov 02, 2019 10:31 am Post subject: Re: Oil Cooler ports for Manual Vanagon transaxle |
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These are pics from Turbowerx and Weddle websites (Nov2, 2019).
The pump component looks the same, but the cooling fin unit is extruded on the Turbowerx. The (aluminum) cooling fins is a two-halves unit that just clamps around the steel motor like a clamshell. Weddle's website pic shows a stamped steel mounting base, but the Weddle 9PUMP3 I bought back in 2016 looks exactly like the current Turbowerx (extruded Aluminum)
I have NEVER felt any discernable heat on my Weddle pump motor fins, suggesting the cooling fins are barely necessary in our application.
It would be interesting if the Amarine pump, with no fins, gets hot.
_________________
'90 Westy EJ25, 2Peloquins, 3knobs, pressure-oiled GT mainshaft, filtered, cooled gearbox
'87 Tintop w 47k 53k, '12 SmallCar EJ25, cooled filtered gearbox
....KTMs, GasGas, SPOT mtb |
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ALIKA T3
Samba Member
Joined: July 30, 2009
Posts: 6357
Location: Honolulu,Hawaii and France
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| Posted: Sat Nov 02, 2019 12:13 pm Post subject: Re: Oil Cooler ports for Manual Vanagon transaxle |
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Thanks!
Helical gears are a good thing.
All these ratings for 30 min duty are prolly for warranty purposes , telling you it's shit, maybe not 😃
I looked into using a hydraulic head and coupling it with a heavy duty brushless unit, buts it's just too bulky and expensive in the end.
Isn't it Tilton who claims to have the best pump out there?
I might go this way just bc I don't feel like experimenting, but his pump just looks too much like the Chinese knock offs in the end, I doubt it's all made in USA by Murican workers with Phd's.
_________________
Silicone Steering Boots and 930 Cv boots for sale in the classifieds.
Syncro transmission upgrade parts in the Classifieds.
Subaru EJ22+UN1 5 speed transmission
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=416343
Syncro http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4...num+gadget |
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Sodo
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2007
Posts: 9610
Location: Western WA
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| Posted: Sat Nov 02, 2019 1:38 pm Post subject: Re: Oil Cooler ports for Manual Vanagon transaxle |
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FWIW...
I’ve heard of 3failures of Weddle’s diaphragm pump.
Its made of plastic.
_________________
'90 Westy EJ25, 2Peloquins, 3knobs, pressure-oiled GT mainshaft, filtered, cooled gearbox
'87 Tintop w 47k 53k, '12 SmallCar EJ25, cooled filtered gearbox
....KTMs, GasGas, SPOT mtb |
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luceronator
Samba Member
Joined: April 18, 2006
Posts: 22
Location: ABQ, NM
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| Posted: Tue Sep 01, 2020 6:11 pm Post subject: Re: Oil Cooler ports for Manual Vanagon transaxle |
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Hey everyone.
Going down this path of adding a transmission cooler to my Van. I've spent quite a bit of time researching the related forums, so I feel like I'm in a good place.
But, I have an 86 manual 2wd, with an EJ25. I only have about 1" between the transaxle drain port and my exhaust. And the drain plug points directly at the exhaust.
Can anybody steer me towards the right piece of hardware, that will do a very tight 90 degree bend out of the trans? Wondering how others have solved this problem.
I haven't seen this specifically addressed, sorry if I missed it.
The other option of course would be to re-route the exhaust, but the magical piece of hardware seems simpler, if I can find it.
I'm using AN8 push on fittings everywhere else so far.
As always, thanks for the help!
_________________
1986 Weekender, EJ25, Peloquin, horrible paint, and all the GW goodies money can buy (from the PO). I call it “Code Brown”, my kids call it “The Funmobile” |
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ALIKA T3
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Joined: July 30, 2009
Posts: 6357
Location: Honolulu,Hawaii and France
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luceronator
Samba Member
Joined: April 18, 2006
Posts: 22
Location: ABQ, NM
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| Posted: Wed Sep 02, 2020 3:43 pm Post subject: Re: Oil Cooler ports for Manual Vanagon transaxle |
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Hey Alika!
That is awesome, thanks! I shot you an email. I'm sure I saw in one of these threads that you were making these, but it all gets fuzzy after so many pages of trying to learn!
_________________
1986 Weekender, EJ25, Peloquin, horrible paint, and all the GW goodies money can buy (from the PO). I call it “Code Brown”, my kids call it “The Funmobile” |
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Syncrodelic
Samba Member
Joined: September 02, 2010
Posts: 52
Location: Rockton
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| Posted: Wed Jun 21, 2023 8:41 pm Post subject: Re: Oil Cooler ports for Manual Vanagon transaxle |
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Curious if anyone has any feedback on the cheap Amarine pump mentioned above. It goes by other names as well on Amazon and eBay. Plan to get a fully waterproof pump built but wondering about these cheap ones in the meantime.
Great thread BTW. |
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