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Throttle Linkage Comparison- CB Hex Bar, CSP, Berg
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RailBoy
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 01, 2015 8:09 am    Post subject: Throttle Linkage Comparison- CB Hex Bar, CSP, Berg Reply with quote

Hello, looking to hear feedback on dual carb linkage that works the best and stays sinked once set-up.....

Also, like to hear draw backs in case I do not know of them for I am getting ready to build a 2 liter+ size motor and like to know what I am getting into with these linkages above for what ever I run..

Thanks for your time, the linkage will be for a set of Dell DRLA"s...

Something else, thing is I have the CB Hex Bar but am unsure I want to run it, read so many threads on issues with it I am not sure if it is set-up issues or it just does not stay tuned in comparison to other linkages out there. RB
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esde
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 01, 2015 8:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I replaced my CB hex bar with a Gene Berg setup. I have not had to touch it since the initial synchronization. Love it.

That said, the CB was decent after I replaced the linkage rods and had everything set just so. It's a good system but I think the berg is better. The adjustable center pivot on the berg lets you tune the ratio of pedal travel to throttle arm movement, and I like that. Now I have full throttle travel over the full range of motion of the pedal, from idle to floored. With the hex bar, the carbs were either wide open before the pedal was floored (bad, twist- pulls the bar) or I had a dead zone on the pedal before the carbs responded. I'm sure I could've fixed it but with the berg you just move the rod to the next hole and adjust it.
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tattooed_pariah
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 01, 2015 8:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's pricey, but I'm loving my sync link.. I've had no problems with it going out of sync, even after pulling the carbs and putting em back in, everything is right where it needs to be.
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58 Plastic Tub
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 01, 2015 9:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

tattooed_pariah wrote:
It's pricey, but I'm loving my sync link.. I've had no problems with it going out of sync, even after pulling the carbs and putting em back in, everything is right where it needs to be.


x2. Worth every penny.
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mcmscott
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 01, 2015 9:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Personaly not a fan of the berg linkage. I piece of angle iron bolted to the shroud? I have installed 3 sync links and many of cb's linkage. Still fighting one sync link. And most of cb's linkages I modify in some way or the other, more for my preference tho.
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Alstrup
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 01, 2015 11:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The CB works well with off set manifolds, actually about best of all. I modify it a bit too to get more "life" out of the hex bar especially. The Berg works flawlessly witjh most other manifolds. Itīs a bit clumsy, but once you get it right you get it right. T
Wire pull, - well, still getting used to those. Definitely not my favourite yet. Maybe one day i find a system that really sets the standard.

T
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RailBoy
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 01, 2015 2:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have heard people rant and rave over the Berg Linkage for years and yea been into VW's for like 2 decades, but on the up and up the CSP is coming into its own and I know of a few webheads that run it and say its great in contrast to the Berg for they have been around it. Also, thing is these guys said like to above poster that the CB Hex Bar is a Love/Hate relationship.

Thing is I am getting to the point were I am mocking up my engine and need something so an order is going to go in on Monday, and can either be CSP or Berg, but not sure yet...

Just don't like the way the Hex Bar is, just me or are there to many failure points or adjustment points that are a pain to deal with in contrast to the others..

As for Sink Link, well, yea, cables there and this is a daily driver, looking what can stand the test for time is all... RB
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saw2
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 01, 2015 3:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

After using both the CB hex and then the CSP center pull. Myself I definitely prefer the CSP center pull. Easy to set up, easy to adjust and my experience has kept in sync better than most other linkages I've used. And when you have to remove carbs it is very easy to re sync.
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RailBoy
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 01, 2015 4:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Was that using Dellortos that you have had good luck with, heard there are some very light slight mods to the throttle arms you have to make to fit for there, CSP are made spaciifically for Weber IDFs for there the closest CSP make to Dellortos..

I am going to be running DRLA's is all.....

Thing is also, I am a Berg Fan and like the Retro Look of the Berg, but, CSP to me looks like a strong contender is all.. RB
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OLD VW NUT
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 01, 2015 4:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You might want to look into the twin pulley cable system if you haven't already. Seems to get a lot of good reviews. I don't know if the guy is still marketing them but it seems cheap enough and has a very clean look to it. I'm still on the fence since my CB hex bar linkage works very well on the HPMX carbs.

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4...mp;start=0

And the link to the product:

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=1381017
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RailBoy
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 01, 2015 4:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My thing with the Synk Link system is that for show or a weekend car it may be great and all but down the road the cable will start to need attention and you will see were in the sheathing/cable housing do to the cables simple movement.

I worked in the mountain bike world when they said that Gortext Cables were the way to fly, and all they were, are simply put are cables that have a gortex wrapping then they slide on a Poly, plastic type housing inside the steel cable housing.

What I am getting at is that just simple daily use cables will build grit and grime which will cause stiction inside there housings. And we all know that though people say bugs can be oil free, that road dust, oil film can get onto these cable and slow down there performance/movement. And what I am worried about here is that the Synk Link's return springs may not be up to the chore of a car that is a daily driver with out lots of preventative maintance, though there are not Gortex Cables, but normal cables and normal cables housings.

Why I am covering this is that a Daily Driver you need some redundancy in throttle linkage, the way it is made, its servicablitiy, plus its long time performance. This comes from there designs...

Not to knock it I like the Synk Link and have a friend that runs one and he says its great, but he does not have over 8,000 miles on his car, I average that in a year on my bug. So, yea, just do to servicing road bikes that never saw mud, rod grime causes all kinds of issues with road bike cables in there brakes plus gears, front cluster and rear cogsets derallures.

So, to wrap my mind around using Synk Link for a daily driver just does not work for me why? Well, long term, it may stick one day or simply get crudded up and make your like terrible for a while. I think its great for a show car, or for a weekender car, but for daily use, I can't simply strust it not to act up. Sorta like the Hex Bar here on failure parts. RB
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vugbug68
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 01, 2015 5:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've had the same CSP for 5 years of daily driving, Love it! its also easy to make it work with kadrons if you need to.
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RailBoy
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 01, 2015 5:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

vogbug, what I am working around is that the CSP is not a 100% total bolt on kit made for Dellorto DRLA's which kinda sucks... The closest one they sell for dual carbs which I guess they are all, is for Weber IDF's.

I put a call into Cip1.com and spoke to a super nice guy who heard through the food chain what I heard in that CSP does not make a total bolt on kit for DRLAs. So, what the guy at Cip1 did was call CSP themselves for he wanted to know himself for future sales. So, what CSP told him is that the throttle arms of the CSP need to be sized to fit the DRLA throttle shafts to work, and, what is cool that is it.. But yea, the IDF set-up is the closet to DRLA's that they make and that is the only mod that needs to take place...

Thing is, the Berg is bold on, and I am a fan of Berg, but the price of the Berg has sky-rocketed in the past year or so on them, which to me what you get is rediculace.

But thanks for your input and all of ya'lls, like to hear if anyone had to mod the CSP for DRLAs to hear what I may be up against if I go that rout, anyone out there? RB
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bugguy1967
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 01, 2015 6:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RailBoy wrote:
I have heard people rant and rave over the Berg Linkage for years and yea been into VW's for like 2 decades, but on the up and up the CSP is coming into its own and I know of a few webheads that run it and say its great in contrast to the Berg for they have been around it. Also, thing is these guys said like to above poster that the CB Hex Bar is a Love/Hate relationship.

Thing is I am getting to the point were I am mocking up my engine and need something so an order is going to go in on Monday, and can either be CSP or Berg, but not sure yet...

Just don't like the way the Hex Bar is, just me or are there to many failure points or adjustment points that are a pain to deal with in contrast to the others..

As for Sink Link, well, yea, cables there and this is a daily driver, looking what can stand the test for time is all... RB


You know almost all new production cars use cable-operated linkages, right? Rolling Eyes

CSP Bellcrank is solid. No flex. Hard to beat.
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RailBoy
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 01, 2015 6:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am just looking at it from a mileage stand point and installation. Lover the design and read the thread on the Synk Link during it whole birth here on thesamba. RB
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58 Plastic Tub
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 01, 2015 9:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah. You know they all use a cable, right?
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 01, 2015 11:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No mention of the vintage speed BEST Linkage?

I notice they have IDF and IDA versions also NO DRLA?
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Dale M.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 02, 2015 6:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

58 Plastic Tub wrote:
Yeah. You know they all use a cable, right?


HUH... Drive by wire has no cable.... Many new car use a stepper motor to open.close throttle plate....

Dale
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tattooed_pariah
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 02, 2015 6:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I ran a redline hexbar kit with my IDF's from 2002-2013, never had a single problem.. I must have just been lucky I guess..

and I'm using a sync link now, I drive the car daily (unless the temps are in the high 90's.. then I take something with AC), and I'm not afraid of the cable being the reason I'm stuck on the side of the road..
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RailBoy
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 02, 2015 8:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey Tat, nice to hear from you....

Yea, not to worried about the short term with the Synk Link, just long term.

I plan on keeping my car indeffently and that means most all the engine stuff while keeping 2 liter+ size engines in it, which means carbs/exhaust/shrouds/Linkages and all that stuff will be getting shuffled from engine to engine.

And, as we know, the fan sucks in a lot of air for cooling which as we all know brings in oil carbon into the engine bay coating everything. It is amazing how much oily grime gets on the shrouds and all in a short time.

See, I like the Synk Link, but it has so many areas that can be subjected to dirt on were the cable enters and exits the cable housing it can attract dirt into the housing, and yea, may not happen quickly, but it will happen.

Now on the CSP Linkage for I have not seen it in person like the Synk Link, the CSP linkage has bearings in it and hiem joints that you can capture I think, meaning you can get some serious longjevity out of like the Berg.

Yea, the Synk Link just has to many openings in it for me for a daily driver and espectially to deal with the rain of Va.

So Tat, all I am looking for is the best bang for your buck, something that last, and can stay in tune for many years.

By the way, thanks for the critisim on my comments, it is true that new cars all use throttle cables, point there are way to many openings in the Synk Link for my liking is all for a VW do to the fan is always sucking in cool air into the upper engine bay as routed. I just can't can't see the SYnk Link working forever is all with out routine maintance as in comparison to the Berg or CSP. RB
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