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KrisBalfe Samba Member
Joined: December 06, 2004 Posts: 831 Location: SLC
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Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2023 6:58 pm Post subject: Re: Lifted busses ( not big meats under stock suspension) |
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I believe there is a set of RGB’s that you’re speaking of out there.
I went a different route for my lift and ended up here.
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BarryL Samba Member
Joined: November 01, 2004 Posts: 14218 Location: Casa de Oro, California
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Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2023 6:23 pm Post subject: Re: Lifted busses ( not big meats under stock suspension) |
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64 ragtop volks wrote: |
camped out last weekend at the ranch |
I love the look of your setup. Too bad someone can't make a RGB-RGB that had 3 gears stacked and bolted all normal but rotation of crown was Beetle forward. |
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64 ragtop volks Samba Member
Joined: October 01, 2012 Posts: 540 Location: EARTH
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Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2023 5:02 am Post subject: Re: Lifted busses ( not big meats under stock suspension) |
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camped out last weekend at the ranch |
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64 ragtop volks Samba Member
Joined: October 01, 2012 Posts: 540 Location: EARTH
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Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2023 4:56 am Post subject: Re: Lifted busses ( not big meats under stock suspension) |
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when start to hear a pop when taking off in 1st gear, its time to start planning a weekend to tear down to replace axels, and the fulcrum plates. it was my daily driver for quite awile, i would get about 10k to12k miles before it was time for a tear down. then i got another bus up and running so i could try few ideas... tried irs set up with an 002 irs with special bearing carrier to use the earlier swing axel nose cone, special bell housing that bolted to solid rear mount, which pushed motor back about an inch cause the 002 is longer, used the loose fit high angle cv joints. that didnt work very well, drive line angles were just too much. went to beetle irs, flipped ring gear, chopped up a set of big nut redux boxes, bored the redux boxes to use a trans axel flange seal, welded a 930 cv flange to custom stub axel and used 930 cv flanges on the trans. high angle loose fit 930 cv joints, had a set of custom slip joint axels made using 1350 1 ton u joints with 930 flanges. similiar set up to the s.a. fleetline buses that use this idea. its been pretty good set up so far. it would have been alot easier to pull off the wheel arches, run 3 x 3 trailing arms and have the tires poke out from the body, but i wanted a more stockish look to the body lol |
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seshbus Samba Member
Joined: December 29, 2014 Posts: 43 Location: Orange County, CA
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Posted: Wed Jun 21, 2023 9:23 pm Post subject: Re: Lifted busses ( not big meats under stock suspension) |
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64 ragtop volks wrote: |
the only way to not have all that exta camber in a swing axel would be to lower the trans, you could use a bug nose cone and modify a solid rear mount to lower trans about 1 1/2" or so, but that also lowers the motor and then your engine seals will need some extra material around them to seal. the added camber will wear out axels, fulcrum plates, the side gears, and wear out rear tires but thats the price to pay for lifting a bus. bummer that nobody makes aftermarket axels for redux box swing axels. i did several trips 1/2 way across the country and back, texas to calif, texas to florida, texas to new mexico, texas to eastern serrias. been stopped by the cops asking about the rear tires about to fall off, poped off hubcap and showed him lugs were tight lol. the easiest way around the added camber would be little taller tires in rear so you wouldnt need to reindex spring plates as much to get bus to sit level. a reverse notch spring plate does not adress angle of axels, the notch is just to clear the bump stop |
How much is your split lifted? Did you ever have an issues driving so far with the positive camber? I've driven this bus all across california, oregon, idaho, and washington and plan on doing that more but on long trips like that reliability is key so I dont want to do anything that might sacrifice that significantly.
Appreciate the info as well |
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64 ragtop volks Samba Member
Joined: October 01, 2012 Posts: 540 Location: EARTH
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Posted: Wed Jun 21, 2023 10:43 am Post subject: Re: Lifted busses ( not big meats under stock suspension) |
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the only way to not have all that exta camber in a swing axel would be to lower the trans, you could use a bug nose cone and modify a solid rear mount to lower trans about 1 1/2" or so, but that also lowers the motor and then your engine seals will need some extra material around them to seal. the added camber will wear out axels, fulcrum plates, the side gears, and wear out rear tires but thats the price to pay for lifting a bus. bummer that nobody makes aftermarket axels for redux box swing axels. i did several trips 1/2 way across the country and back, texas to calif, texas to florida, texas to new mexico, texas to eastern serrias. been stopped by the cops asking about the rear tires about to fall off, poped off hubcap and showed him lugs were tight lol. the easiest way around the added camber would be little taller tires in rear so you wouldnt need to reindex spring plates as much to get bus to sit level. a reverse notch spring plate does not adress angle of axels, the notch is just to clear the bump stop |
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TDCTDI Samba Advocatus Diaboli
Joined: August 31, 2013 Posts: 12818 Location: North Carolina
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Posted: Wed Jun 21, 2023 10:21 am Post subject: Re: Lifted busses ( not big meats under stock suspension) |
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seshbus wrote: |
I dont know if this is a stupid question or not but would it be possible to use notched spring plates (used for lowering - but flip them) to raise the rear? I dont want a crazy lift in the rear, just want the rear to be level with the front with out crazy positive camber. |
The spring plates, notched or not, do not determine the camber, that is caused by the fact that the rear axles only pivot towards the inner end & the tire moves on an arc from that point. When you lower the vehicle, you get negative camber, when you raise it, you get positive camber.
The only real ways to solve this is to…
A)return the vehicle to stock height.
B)convert to IRS.
C)adjust the height of the transmission (up for lowering, down for raising). _________________ Everybody born before 1975 has a story, good, bad, or indifferent, about a VW.
GOFUNDYOURSELF, quit asking everyone to do it for you!
An air cooled VW will make you a hoarder.
Do something, anything, to your project every day, and you will eventually complete it. |
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seshbus Samba Member
Joined: December 29, 2014 Posts: 43 Location: Orange County, CA
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Posted: Wed Jun 21, 2023 10:02 am Post subject: Re: Lifted busses ( not big meats under stock suspension) |
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64 ragtop volks wrote: |
i have early bay front beam ( raises the front about 2" ) and re indexed the spring plates in the rear ( big nut redux boxes), coil over shocks in front and stock style shocks in the rear. running bug smoothies in front and crows feet rims in rear. no rubbing on the street, going back to big bend state park for thanksgiving weekend to put it to the test. we went last year and had a blast, took a few of the 4wd hi clearance trails, and buses did great. |
Is your positive camber an issue? I just raised the rear of my 67 two inner splines and one outer for a 2.5" lift and the positive camber appears pretty bad. All my neighbors and friends who have seen it are pretty concerned
I dont know if this is a stupid question or not but would it be possible to use notched spring plates (used for lowering - but flip them) to raise the rear? I dont want a crazy lift in the rear, just want the rear to be level with the front with out crazy positive camber. |
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seshbus Samba Member
Joined: December 29, 2014 Posts: 43 Location: Orange County, CA
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Posted: Wed Jun 14, 2023 10:26 pm Post subject: Re: Lifted busses ( not big meats under stock suspension) |
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Just lifted the rear of my 67. Two inner splines and one outer spline for a 2.5" lift. I have only driven it around the neighborhood but it feels good so far. Not sure if the positive camber is going to even out or if its too much.
Update from my previous posts about the rubbing in the front - Ended up getting 15" wheels and 1/8" spacers to clear the top of the lifted spindles. They don't rub but are close. |
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seshbus Samba Member
Joined: December 29, 2014 Posts: 43 Location: Orange County, CA
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Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2023 4:52 pm Post subject: Re: Lifted busses ( not big meats under stock suspension) |
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j.pickens wrote: |
15's might just squeak in there. |
I am going to borrow a pair of 15s to try from someone hopefully next week but I was curious about what others with lifted spindles from WW have done or if they encountered the same issue at all. |
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j.pickens Samba Member
Joined: December 03, 2002 Posts: 9787 Location: Exit 7, New Jersey
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Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2023 10:36 pm Post subject: Re: Lifted busses ( not big meats under stock suspension) |
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seshbus wrote: |
rustybus wrote: |
I was able to get a set of raised spindles made and purchased years ago. I put them on the day before the Shasta Snow Trip and was a bit worried that it would change the handling of the bus. I was pleasantly surprised that it didn't, but did give me a noticeable lift, removed all scraping and rubbing, and made the bus look much less saggy in the front. |
I just put a set of 2.5" raised spindles on my 67 and I am having rubbing issues on the inside of my tire.
What size wheel/tire combo are you running? I have 14" wheels with General grabbers. This set up currently wont work due to the rubbing, so my options I assume are spacers, or 15" wheels. Is that what you have/would work?
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15's might just squeak in there. _________________ Founder and Chairman Emeritus, ECMSAS
BBX BBXII and BBXXI Long Distance Award Winner
BeaterBarndoor wrote: |
i wish more people would actually drive their vws rather than just talking about what they have in the garage. |
Red Fau Veh wrote: |
If you've seen one sunroof swivel seat kombi, you've seen them all! |
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seshbus Samba Member
Joined: December 29, 2014 Posts: 43 Location: Orange County, CA
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Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2023 7:07 pm Post subject: Re: Lifted busses ( not big meats under stock suspension) |
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Bschuh66 wrote: |
One inner spline. |
So you only rotated the inner spline one notch to the left? Do you know what angle your pre-load is?
I have read you should do a mix of inner and outer splines when raising or lowering the rear to avoid sagging. I am a novice when it comes to this so any advice is appreciated. Thanks |
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seshbus Samba Member
Joined: December 29, 2014 Posts: 43 Location: Orange County, CA
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Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2023 6:53 pm Post subject: Re: Lifted busses ( not big meats under stock suspension) |
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rustybus wrote: |
I was able to get a set of raised spindles made and purchased years ago. I put them on the day before the Shasta Snow Trip and was a bit worried that it would change the handling of the bus. I was pleasantly surprised that it didn't, but did give me a noticeable lift, removed all scraping and rubbing, and made the bus look much less saggy in the front. |
I just put a set of 2.5" raised spindles on my 67 and I am having rubbing issues on the inside of my tire.
What size wheel/tire combo are you running? I have 14" wheels with General grabbers. This set up currently wont work due to the rubbing, so my options I assume are spacers, or 15" wheels. Is that what you have/would work?
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rustybus Shasta Snow Trip Newt
Joined: November 24, 2002 Posts: 919 Location: Arizona
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Posted: Wed Feb 02, 2022 2:35 pm Post subject: Re: Lifted busses ( not big meats under stock suspension) |
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64 ragtop volks wrote: |
it seems pretty good so far, with the higher center of gravity you just have to be aware of terrain. when i had just had a bay beam and reindexed springplates with stock redux swingaxel it was a little sketchy with the added camber at times and eating up fulcrum plates and spade end of axels |
My superdiff already eats axles and fulcrums so I'm good there _________________ Richard
www.rustybus.com www.shastasnowtrip.com |
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64 ragtop volks Samba Member
Joined: October 01, 2012 Posts: 540 Location: EARTH
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Posted: Wed Feb 02, 2022 5:52 am Post subject: Re: Lifted busses ( not big meats under stock suspension) |
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it seems pretty good so far, with the higher center of gravity you just have to be aware of terrain. when i had just had a bay beam and reindexed springplates with stock redux swingaxel it was a little sketchy with the added camber at times and eating up fulcrum plates and spade end of axels |
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rustybus Shasta Snow Trip Newt
Joined: November 24, 2002 Posts: 919 Location: Arizona
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Posted: Mon Jan 31, 2022 10:23 am Post subject: Re: Lifted busses ( not big meats under stock suspension) |
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Did you have the earlier version of that setup at BBB a couple years ago? That looked like a good way to go. I've always questioned the value of the engine trans drop because those were still your low point, although I guess you could make up some height with taller tires then. How long have you been running this since you added the u joints? Is it pretty reliable now? Any drawbacks other than things being totally custom?
64 ragtop volks wrote: |
cut and turned bay beam, lifted spindles in front. early bug irs with flipped ring, slip joint axels, 1350 u joints( 1 ton) with 930 flanges, the 930 cv were not liking running at 24 degrees, i chopped off redux boxes and bored for a seal for the stub axel and mated a 930 flange to it, early bay trailing arms. some take the easy way and drop trans and motor, but i wanted pure suspension lift. down side is redux boxes will not get and gear oil from trans, and its always a kinda messy job overfilling redux boxes to make sure they are full. vw did make a setup kinda like this on sa fleetline for a couple years in mid 70s |
_________________ Richard
www.rustybus.com www.shastasnowtrip.com |
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64 ragtop volks Samba Member
Joined: October 01, 2012 Posts: 540 Location: EARTH
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Posted: Mon Jan 31, 2022 10:17 am Post subject: Re: Lifted busses ( not big meats under stock suspension) |
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cut and turned bay beam, lifted spindles in front. early bug irs with flipped ring, slip joint axels, 1350 u joints( 1 ton) with 930 flanges, the 930 cv were not liking running at 24 degrees, i chopped off redux boxes and bored for a seal for the stub axel and mated a 930 flange to it, early bay trailing arms. some take the easy way and drop trans and motor, but i wanted pure suspension lift. down side is redux boxes will not get and gear oil from trans, and its always a kinda messy job overfilling redux boxes to make sure they are full. vw did make a setup kinda like this on sa fleetline for a couple years in mid 70s |
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cdennisg Samba Member
Joined: November 02, 2004 Posts: 20233 Location: Sandpoint, ID
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Posted: Mon Jan 31, 2022 8:52 am Post subject: Re: Lifted busses ( not big meats under stock suspension) |
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Abscate wrote: |
cdennisg wrote: |
What exactly does "one click" mean? One outer spline? One inner spline? a combination of them?
I hear "one click" all too often, with little clarity on definition. One outer spline in the "up" direction is a pretty big jump on a stock, RGB equipped bus. Gonna have some massive positive camber after that.
To the front end lift, I guess it depends on what you want for an end result. Lift spindles will give more actual lift, and not alter ride quality from stock (mostly). Installing a ball joint beam will lift a split about 1 1/2" if all of the torsion leaves are good, and will result in a smoother ride. |
These guys are into looks, not driveability. As long as they keep lifting them, I can keep grifting them. |
That was not a question I asked. And you are wrong on this one. _________________ nothing |
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rustybus Shasta Snow Trip Newt
Joined: November 24, 2002 Posts: 919 Location: Arizona
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Posted: Mon Jan 31, 2022 8:28 am Post subject: Re: Lifted busses ( not big meats under stock suspension) |
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That looks like some massive clearance. What did you do to get more clearance in the rear? I've put 2" lifted spindles on the front of mine which has helped a lot. I don't want mine too high as I take some pretty fast corners on the dirt, but getting the rear up to match the front of mine would help get through the deeper snow where my belly pans turn me into a sled and get me through through the deeper ruts and rocks.
I had a friend that lifted a bus once that could drive over a 5-gallon bucket standing upright. Looks like yours might do that. We were once cruising around off-road in Northern Arizona and an 8" diameter tree had fallen across the road and was held about two or three feet above the road, propped up by the small branches on it. He drove right up and over it no problem and crushed it down enough the other two of us could manage to get over. A chain saw would have been a better solution, but we didn't have one.
As far as the guy that says people are all into looks, not drivability, I'm guessing he is just a troll? I know about 40 buses heading on a trip in two weeks that would beg to differ on that. I'd put my bus against his in a drivability contest covering city, highway, high speed off-road, and technical off-road use. Mine isn't best at any one of them but is pretty darn good at all of them overall, and having just rolled my odometer to 000000 for the third time on my bus I guess it must be at least a little drivable _________________ Richard
www.rustybus.com www.shastasnowtrip.com |
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Abscate Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2014 Posts: 22573 Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
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Posted: Mon Jan 31, 2022 7:35 am Post subject: Re: Lifted busses ( not big meats under stock suspension) |
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cdennisg wrote: |
What exactly does "one click" mean? One outer spline? One inner spline? a combination of them?
I hear "one click" all too often, with little clarity on definition. One outer spline in the "up" direction is a pretty big jump on a stock, RGB equipped bus. Gonna have some massive positive camber after that.
To the front end lift, I guess it depends on what you want for an end result. Lift spindles will give more actual lift, and not alter ride quality from stock (mostly). Installing a ball joint beam will lift a split about 1 1/2" if all of the torsion leaves are good, and will result in a smoother ride. |
These guys are into looks, not driveability. As long as they keep lifting them, I can keep grifting them. _________________ .ssS! |
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