Starter siezed engine at the end of break-in?!? (kinda long)

[shifty6d]

Ok, this ones new to me. I have my engine on the bare pan and had it all wired for break-in, did the usual pre-start stuff (prime oil sys., pressure check etc.). So my one bonehead move was wiring my alternator to my starter switch post which caused the starter to engage again after the engine fired and was given voltage from the alternator. Got that figured out quick and disconnected it without stopping the engine (break-in rpm).
So the next 15-20 mins. go by as expected, no leaks, sounds decent, then at the end when I'm ready to throttle down to idle and shut it off completely it siezes at just under 2K rpm. I try to restart just because I'm curious what happened and the starter just clicks, put a wrench on the crank - doesn't budge!
I'm ready to tear back into the thing to see what happened and have it down to about a long block and start to take the engine loose from the bell housing starting with the starter, it doesn't want to come out so I pry it a bit and it pops out I don't think much of it and continue, get the engine onto the bench and go to remove the pressure plate bolts and the engine turns, all smooth and normal like. I look at the flywheel and about a quarter of its teeth are munched on a bit, but the starter looks normal and spins freely. I wish I had tried to spin the engine over after the starter fought me a bit because I'm thinking that's the whole problem, but the timing of it and fixing the issue has me scratching my head.

'63 Dune buggy stock trans. with 1600 - flywheel/starter/clutch are all 1600

Any ideas?

[Dale M.]

First mistake was not shutting down engine when problem happened..No it would not have hurt break in run, but might have saved you from current headache..

Usually when something is "not right" you should stop.....

Dale
_________________
“Fear The Government That Wants To Take Your Guns" - Thomas Jefferson.

"Kellison Sand Piper Roadster" For Street & Show.
"Joe Pody Sandrover" Buggy with 2180 for Autocross (Sold)
============================================================
All suggestions and advice are purely my own opinion. You are free to ignore them if you wish ...

[shifty6d]

Problem happened at end of break-in when going to idle engine down. If you're referring to the starter being run by the alternator, I heard that distinct noise right away after initial start up and as soon as I did I pulled the wire and the starter disengaged and it sounded normal again.

[jsturtlebuggy]

More than likely you seized a main bearing.
Did you check out the size of everything?
Could you have missed a dowel pin on one of the main bearings?
_________________
Joseph
Fair Oaks/Orangevale, CA
Elrod Motorsports
Motion Tire Motorsports
Having fun with Dune Buggies since 1970
Into Volkswagens since 1960

[FreeBug]

I'm confused, help me get this straight. The engine wouldn't turn over when it was in the car, but turns over now that it's no longer connected to the bell housing?

Is the engine still fully assembled?

Do you have another starter laying around?

[DWP]

I would check the starter again. To me it sounds like the starter was engaged the whole time. Might of jammed "on" Only when you lowered the RPM did you notice it.

DWP

[Dale M.]

[jason]

Starter was engaged when you had it revved up, you remove the wire, disengage motor and sound is gone. Did you lower the revs at all? If you didn't it didn't let the weak little solenoid spring pull the gear back. You were sitting their revving on the starter bearing. Starter was free wheeling in on position. Get another starter and check bushing in trans. The munched teeth are probably from your starter when it acted like a motor brake.

[shifty6d]

The starter gear freewheeling but still engaged on the flywheel makes the most sense and was my thought also, but the bushing isn't fried and the starter spins free by hand right now, case paint lookes like it never got hot, etc. I'm going to test the starter with power today and see if it sounds or acts funny. Still doesn't explain the partially chewed ring gear portion of the flywheel though, the teeth are mashed on the starter side but only about 1/4 of the way around.

[Aerindel]

Sounds like the starter seized and the momentum of the flywheel forced it through a quarter turn, munching teeth as it went.
_________________
Homemade woods/street, bug out rail. IRS, Balljoint front end. 1967 1600cc DP, Weber 32/36 progressive, tri-mil quiet pack. Rear only cutting brakes.

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=630046

[jason]

Exactly, those teeth are what stopped a revved motor. Starter is probably good. Gear probably un seized when cool.

[shifty6d]

Yeah, starter is junk, shaft has side play and with power it spins at inconsistent rpms. Getting a new flywheel and starter and putting it all back together. I'll post the final outcome when I get there, should be all good by the weekend (fingers crossed).

[young55961]

Did you check the battery ? Maybe it just low on voltage.

[56vwoval]

Check end play with new flywheel!
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Remember guys and girls, you can be right or you can be happy with your significant other! You decide which is right at that time!

[Dale M.]

IF you are testing starter out of bell housing be aware shaft is unsupported and is not a valid test.....

IF you are replacing starter consider Bosch SR 17 starter (self supported) from VW Autostick...

Dale
_________________
“Fear The Government That Wants To Take Your Guns" - Thomas Jefferson.

"Kellison Sand Piper Roadster" For Street & Show.
"Joe Pody Sandrover" Buggy with 2180 for Autocross (Sold)
============================================================
All suggestions and advice are purely my own opinion. You are free to ignore them if you wish ...

[shifty6d]

see below

[shifty6d]

Picture of flywheel for those interested :

[Dale M.]

Yeah... Running starter was trying to engage flywheel of running motor...

Dale
_________________
“Fear The Government That Wants To Take Your Guns" - Thomas Jefferson.

"Kellison Sand Piper Roadster" For Street & Show.
"Joe Pody Sandrover" Buggy with 2180 for Autocross (Sold)
============================================================
All suggestions and advice are purely my own opinion. You are free to ignore them if you wish ...

[shifty6d]

Sorry, but I'm going to disagree. If that pattern were all the way around the gear then yeah, classic pattern of starter trying to engage running engine, but that pattern is only on 1/4 of the teeth, all others look fine. I think this is the area somehow the starter bound up on the flywheel to ultimately stop the engine.

[jason]

That gear doesn't look too bad to me. Get a new gear installed. Cheaper than new flywheel and you don't have to mess with endplay.