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madmike
Samba Member
Joined: July 11, 2005
Posts: 5292
Location: Atlanta,Michigan
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 Posted: Sat May 20, 2017 3:19 am Post subject: Re: My soon to be new 1970 vw transporter (restoration) |
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I don't think your gonna get a great idle with a w110 and a single carb, even dual single don't work with that cam, I'd get slap on a pair of 40 idf's with that 034 dizzy, an call it a day  same set up on my bus although it's a 2110cc 
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ccpalmer
Samba Member
Joined: September 17, 2006
Posts: 3850
Location: Ann Arbor, Michigan
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| Posted: Sat May 20, 2017 6:44 am Post subject: Re: My soon to be new 1970 vw transporter (restoration) |
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I have a 110 cam with my 1776 and from what I read it's real hard to get a good idle with that combo (34pict). I tried a few different carbs then I decided to just use the screw on the fast idle cam to set my idle speed. I know they say not to do that but I figure I don't drive my Bus at idle so who cares what the idle setting is at. Kind of like timing.
That being said my Bus drives great that way. Another trick you can try is unscrewing your pilot jet a little and see if that helps the idle. If it does some say that you need a bigger pilot jet.
You should look into jetting your carb. Tim at Volkzbitz set mine up with a 135 main (much bigger than stock) 75 air and 65 pilot jet. It runs great that way and I get 20mpg. If you need I have jet gauges and reamers and extra jets.
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Spike0180
Samba Member
Joined: June 06, 2015
Posts: 2269
Location: Detroit, Michigan
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| Posted: Sat May 20, 2017 9:29 am Post subject: Re: My soon to be new 1970 vw transporter (restoration) |
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| ccpalmer wrote: |
I have a 110 cam with my 1776 and from what I read it's real hard to get a good idle with that combo (34pict). I tried a few different carbs then I decided to just use the screw on the fast idle cam to set my idle speed. I know they say not to do that but I figure I don't drive my Bus at idle so who cares what the idle setting is at. Kind of like timing.
That being said my Bus drives great that way. Another trick you can try is unscrewing your pilot jet a little and see if that helps the idle. If it does some say that you need a bigger pilot jet.
You should look into jetting your carb. Tim at Volkzbitz set mine up with a 135 main (much bigger than stock) 75 air and 65 pilot jet. It runs great that way and I get 20mpg. If you need I have jet gauges and reamers and extra jets. |
That's good to know because my main jet was loose when I took it apart. Maybe I'll try setting that out a little.
_________________
Brutis Patches Izabich: 1970 VW Transporter - 1776cc DP
Current State: Projects never truly end...
Location: Grosse Pointe, Michigan
Other cars: 2003 F150, 2003 Jetta GLI vr6-6sp
Sambastic: adj; the quality of being nit picky, elitist, expecting everyone to do things the way they believe is best with no regard to situation, "sambastic" |
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ccpalmer
Samba Member
Joined: September 17, 2006
Posts: 3850
Location: Ann Arbor, Michigan
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| Posted: Sat May 20, 2017 10:46 am Post subject: Re: My soon to be new 1970 vw transporter (restoration) |
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| Spike0180 wrote: |
| ccpalmer wrote: |
I have a 110 cam with my 1776 and from what I read it's real hard to get a good idle with that combo (34pict). I tried a few different carbs then I decided to just use the screw on the fast idle cam to set my idle speed. I know they say not to do that but I figure I don't drive my Bus at idle so who cares what the idle setting is at. Kind of like timing.
That being said my Bus drives great that way. Another trick you can try is unscrewing your pilot jet a little and see if that helps the idle. If it does some say that you need a bigger pilot jet.
You should look into jetting your carb. Tim at Volkzbitz set mine up with a 135 main (much bigger than stock) 75 air and 65 pilot jet. It runs great that way and I get 20mpg. If you need I have jet gauges and reamers and extra jets. |
That's good to know because my main jet was loose when I took it apart. Maybe I'll try setting that out a little. |
Not the main jet (inside) but the pilot jet (on the side)
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Spike0180
Samba Member
Joined: June 06, 2015
Posts: 2269
Location: Detroit, Michigan
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| Posted: Sat May 20, 2017 9:04 pm Post subject: Re: My soon to be new 1970 vw transporter (restoration) |
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Welp, Brutis isn't up to snuff yet to make it tomorrow. I'll be there but not with the van.
Madmike: I'll bring tools in case you don't have them.
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Brutis Patches Izabich: 1970 VW Transporter - 1776cc DP
Current State: Projects never truly end...
Location: Grosse Pointe, Michigan
Other cars: 2003 F150, 2003 Jetta GLI vr6-6sp
Sambastic: adj; the quality of being nit picky, elitist, expecting everyone to do things the way they believe is best with no regard to situation, "sambastic" |
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Spike0180
Samba Member
Joined: June 06, 2015
Posts: 2269
Location: Detroit, Michigan
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| Posted: Sat May 20, 2017 9:32 pm Post subject: Re: My soon to be new 1970 vw transporter (restoration) |
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| madmike wrote: |
| I don't think your gonna get a great idle with a w110 and a single carb, even dual single don't work with that cam, I'd get slap on a pair of 40 idf's with that 034 dizzy, an call it a day same set up on my bus although it's a 2110cc |
So my baby Weber's wouldn't help it out much either? (Assuming that my carb is the issue.) That's a bummer. I'ma keep working on the single for now. Maybe get different jetting like Chris suggested.
_________________
Brutis Patches Izabich: 1970 VW Transporter - 1776cc DP
Current State: Projects never truly end...
Location: Grosse Pointe, Michigan
Other cars: 2003 F150, 2003 Jetta GLI vr6-6sp
Sambastic: adj; the quality of being nit picky, elitist, expecting everyone to do things the way they believe is best with no regard to situation, "sambastic" |
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Spike0180
Samba Member
Joined: June 06, 2015
Posts: 2269
Location: Detroit, Michigan
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| Posted: Wed May 24, 2017 8:58 am Post subject: Re: My soon to be new 1970 vw transporter (restoration) |
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Well... this 110 cam is a pain in the butt. I'm in the market for some weber 40 idf's or 36 dell's if anyone has any they are looking to sell.
I'm also going to be selling my baby webers, and both my 34 pict 3's now (one Mexican one german). I also have type 4 parts to trade for the carbs if you are interested in that. Feel free to reach out to me anyway you decide. I'm looking to get the carbs in the coming week.
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Brutis Patches Izabich: 1970 VW Transporter - 1776cc DP
Current State: Projects never truly end...
Location: Grosse Pointe, Michigan
Other cars: 2003 F150, 2003 Jetta GLI vr6-6sp
Sambastic: adj; the quality of being nit picky, elitist, expecting everyone to do things the way they believe is best with no regard to situation, "sambastic" |
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airschooled
Air-Schooled
Joined: April 04, 2012
Posts: 12716
Location: on a bike ride somewhere
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| Posted: Wed May 24, 2017 9:09 am Post subject: Re: My soon to be new 1970 vw transporter (restoration) |
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Would you mind making a detailed list of the running issues you're having? I'd like to have a stab at improving your running condition in the mean time, assuming you have the time to make some tweaks.
Robbie
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Spike0180
Samba Member
Joined: June 06, 2015
Posts: 2269
Location: Detroit, Michigan
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| Posted: Wed May 24, 2017 9:23 am Post subject: Re: My soon to be new 1970 vw transporter (restoration) |
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| asiab3 wrote: |
Would you mind making a detailed list of the running issues you're having? I'd like to have a stab at improving your running condition in the mean time, assuming you have the time to make some tweaks.
Robbie |
Sure. Since I cleaned my carb and now switched carbs.
This is what I have checked:
Points: .016
Newer plug wires
Set timing to 30* full advance with vacuum plugged. (It was hard to get it to run without the vacuum and wouldn't run without me pumping the gas)
Set valves to .006
Changed fuel filter
Checked for vacuum leaks (none located with spraying brake cleaner of carb cleaner. When brake cleaner sprayed above the carb it did not like it and nearly cut out and turned off.)
Changed coil.
Symptoms:
It has a hard time starting, and once started I am Unable to obtain an idle below 1550 rpm. The engine just slows down (starting at 1550) and cuts out completely around 1000-1200. If I screw out the speed screw a lot (6-8turns) I can get it to idle without the choke, but it makes it even harder to start the engine.
I have not checked my spark plugs yet (I suppose I should...)
_________________
Brutis Patches Izabich: 1970 VW Transporter - 1776cc DP
Current State: Projects never truly end...
Location: Grosse Pointe, Michigan
Other cars: 2003 F150, 2003 Jetta GLI vr6-6sp
Sambastic: adj; the quality of being nit picky, elitist, expecting everyone to do things the way they believe is best with no regard to situation, "sambastic" |
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airschooled
Air-Schooled
Joined: April 04, 2012
Posts: 12716
Location: on a bike ride somewhere
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| Posted: Wed May 24, 2017 9:45 am Post subject: Re: My soon to be new 1970 vw transporter (restoration) |
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Eeeexxcelleeennnttt details!
| Spike0180 wrote: |
Set timing to 30* full advance with vacuum plugged. (It was hard to get it to run without the vacuum and wouldn't run without me pumping the gas) |
How do you KNOW where 30° is? Will it rev up smoother for a mock timing check if you plug the hose?
| Quote: |
| Checked for vacuum leaks (none located with spraying brake cleaner of carb cleaner. When brake cleaner sprayed above the carb it did not like it and nearly cut out and turned off.) |
At what RPM was this test? The result tells us that your engine is likely rich at whatever stage you tested.
| Quote: |
| It has a hard time starting, and once started I am Unable to obtain an idle below 1550 rpm. The engine just slows down (starting at 1550) and cuts out completely around 1000-1200. If I screw out the speed screw a lot (6-8turns) I can get it to idle without the choke, but it makes it even harder to start the engine. |
6-8 turns of the big brass speed screw is well within the realm of 34pict3 adjustment, especially with a non-stock cam! What is your small brass mixture screw set to at that point, and how are you setting it? I am a firm believer that the stock carbs have much more adjustment than folks give them credit for. I think I was in Ft. Wayne, Indiana, when I ran across a mostly stock bus that needed eight or nine turns out on the speed screw to get up to 1,000 RPM idle. Point is, talk to your bus and get our heads out of the Bentley every once in a while.
Define your starting procedures on a cold, warm, and hot engine please.
How is first start of the day on choke?
Robbie
EDIT: for TWO dangling prepositions. Ugh.
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Spike0180
Samba Member
Joined: June 06, 2015
Posts: 2269
Location: Detroit, Michigan
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| Posted: Wed May 24, 2017 11:19 am Post subject: Re: My soon to be new 1970 vw transporter (restoration) |
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| asiab3 wrote: |
Eeeexxcelleeennnttt details!
| Spike0180 wrote: |
Set timing to 30* full advance with vacuum plugged. (It was hard to get it to run without the vacuum and wouldn't run without me pumping the gas) |
How do you KNOW where 30° is? Will it rev up smoother for a mock timing check if you plug the hose?
| Quote: |
| Checked for vacuum leaks (none located with spraying brake cleaner of carb cleaner. When brake cleaner sprayed above the carb it did not like it and nearly cut out and turned off.) |
At what RPM was this test? The result tells us that your engine is likely rich at whatever stage you tested.
| Quote: |
| It has a hard time starting, and once started I am Unable to obtain an idle below 1550 rpm. The engine just slows down (starting at 1550) and cuts out completely around 1000-1200. If I screw out the speed screw a lot (6-8turns) I can get it to idle without the choke, but it makes it even harder to start the engine. |
6-8 turns of the big brass speed screw is well within the realm of 34pict3 adjustment, especially with a non-stock cam! What is your small brass mixture screw set to at that point, and how are you setting it? I am a firm believer that the stock carbs have much more adjustment than folks give them credit for. I think I was in Ft. Wayne, Indiana, when I ran across a mostly stock bus that needed eight or nine turns out on the speed screw to get up to 1,000 RPM idle. Point is, talk to your bus and get our heads out of the Bentley every once in a while.
Define your starting procedures on a cold, warm, and hot engine please.
How is first start of the day on choke?
Robbie
EDIT: for TWO dangling prepositions. Ugh. |
I used my timing light and the mark on the pulley to set my advance at 30*. The vacuum was plugged.
I had it trying to idle at that point, so somewhere about 1700rpm.
My mixture screw was somewhere in the ballpark of 2 turns out at that point. I had leaned it out because I had assumed it was rich from spraying it before. And OK, I won't hesitate about having the speed screw way out.
For starting I am having to set the choke fully on (more open it is, the harder time it has starting.) Then I turn the key. I would love to gas it a little when starting, it helps a lot, but my choke opens and then it won't start up and run. On cold starts I give it a shot or two from the accelerator pump. First start isn't as bad a warm starts, but it still doesn't start up on first turn around.
_________________
Brutis Patches Izabich: 1970 VW Transporter - 1776cc DP
Current State: Projects never truly end...
Location: Grosse Pointe, Michigan
Other cars: 2003 F150, 2003 Jetta GLI vr6-6sp
Sambastic: adj; the quality of being nit picky, elitist, expecting everyone to do things the way they believe is best with no regard to situation, "sambastic" |
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Clatter
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Joined: September 24, 2003
Posts: 7533
Location: Santa Cruz
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| Posted: Wed May 24, 2017 12:47 pm Post subject: Re: My soon to be new 1970 vw transporter (restoration) |
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110 cam and 34PICT..
 
Too bad you don't have a stock 1.7 type 4 lying around somewhere..
With a set of ICTs, that would make a super-reliable setup for an early bay!
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Spike0180
Samba Member
Joined: June 06, 2015
Posts: 2269
Location: Detroit, Michigan
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| Posted: Wed May 24, 2017 1:29 pm Post subject: Re: My soon to be new 1970 vw transporter (restoration) |
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| Clatter wrote: |
110 cam and 34PICT..
Too bad you don't have a stock 1.7 type 4 lying around somewhere..
With a set of ICTs, that would make a super-reliable setup for an early bay!
|
Yeah, they're reliable if they're getting oil. And you don't have to disassemble it clean it and reassemble it. Oh, and properly mounted so it isn't stressing your mounts every time you give it a shot of gas. Oh, and I sold the cylinders and heater boxes. I think this type 1 will be good. I knew the cam and carb weren't going to like each other, my engine builder said it would be fine... I shouldn't have listened. Or maybe it will be and I just can't tune for crap. Both possible.
_________________
Brutis Patches Izabich: 1970 VW Transporter - 1776cc DP
Current State: Projects never truly end...
Location: Grosse Pointe, Michigan
Other cars: 2003 F150, 2003 Jetta GLI vr6-6sp
Sambastic: adj; the quality of being nit picky, elitist, expecting everyone to do things the way they believe is best with no regard to situation, "sambastic" |
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airschooled
Air-Schooled
Joined: April 04, 2012
Posts: 12716
Location: on a bike ride somewhere
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| Posted: Wed May 24, 2017 1:39 pm Post subject: Re: My soon to be new 1970 vw transporter (restoration) |
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If you paid someone and they said it would run well, they should be obligated to make it run well.
An idle speed screw 8 turns out, being fine, will require significant moving of the mixture screw too. I'm interested to hear how you've adjusted that on a warm engine.
Where does your idle timing fall?
I'm a little unclear on your starting procedures. Here are mine:
Cold start: Press the pedal down once, release. Turn key.
Warm start: Crack the throttle open maybe 1/8th. Turn key.
Hot start: Slowly depress pedal to floor. Turn key.
What are yours?
Robbie
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Spike0180
Samba Member
Joined: June 06, 2015
Posts: 2269
Location: Detroit, Michigan
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| Posted: Wed May 24, 2017 1:46 pm Post subject: Re: My soon to be new 1970 vw transporter (restoration) |
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| asiab3 wrote: |
If you paid someone and they said it would run well, they should be obligated to make it run well.
An idle speed screw 8 turns out, being fine, will require significant moving of the mixture screw too. I'm interested to hear how you've adjusted that on a warm engine.
Where does your idle timing fall?
I'm a little unclear on your starting procedures. Here are mine:
Cold start: Press the pedal down once, release. Turn key.
Warm start: Crack the throttle open maybe 1/8th. Turn key.
Hot start: Slowly depress pedal to floor. Turn key.
What are yours?
Robbie |
I'm wanting to get this working on my own if I can, even if I fail it will be a good educational process.
Have not checked where it lands at idle. Do you want with or without vacuum?
Cold start: turn key
Warm start: set choke open (manually) turn key.
Hot start: set choke fully open (manually) turn key. (If helper present, pump pedal 1-3 times or until engine starts)
It sounds like I probably am just way out from where my setting should be. Do you think I will need more gas (turn mixture screw out further) since I have my idle speed screw out so far?
_________________
Brutis Patches Izabich: 1970 VW Transporter - 1776cc DP
Current State: Projects never truly end...
Location: Grosse Pointe, Michigan
Other cars: 2003 F150, 2003 Jetta GLI vr6-6sp
Sambastic: adj; the quality of being nit picky, elitist, expecting everyone to do things the way they believe is best with no regard to situation, "sambastic" |
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Clatter
Samba Member
Joined: September 24, 2003
Posts: 7533
Location: Santa Cruz
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| Posted: Thu May 25, 2017 9:03 am Post subject: Re: My soon to be new 1970 vw transporter (restoration) |
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A 110 cam and 34 PICT won't idle below 1400RPM at least no matter what you do.
I'd be getting a pair of duals before proceeding.
Why not use those ICTs?
Get a set of type 1 manifolds, tweak the linkage in, and go, Daddy-O..
Did you buy that motor turn-key?
Was it a long-block you dressed down,
Or did you buy that like that,
with the idea it was supposed to go into your bus and run?
Unless it was free, or very, very cheap,
I'd be throwing a brick right now,
Not 'doing it myself'..
The valvetrain of a new motor isn't supposed to come apart in 50 miles.
A 110 with stock carb is just WRONG for any motor, especially a bus.
If you actually paid good money for that motor,
And it's 'rebuilt',
It should run, FFS!
You got yourself a nice looking bus right there,
and obviously a lot of time and effort in.
Don't let yourself get shammed by some scam, my man!
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Spike0180
Samba Member
Joined: June 06, 2015
Posts: 2269
Location: Detroit, Michigan
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| Posted: Thu May 25, 2017 9:25 am Post subject: Re: My soon to be new 1970 vw transporter (restoration) |
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| Clatter wrote: |
A 110 cam and 34 PICT won't idle below 1400RPM at least no matter what you do.
I'd be getting a pair of duals before proceeding.
Why not use those ICTs?
Get a set of type 1 manifolds, tweak the linkage in, and go, Daddy-O..
Did you buy that motor turn-key?
Was it a long-block you dressed down,
Or did you buy that like that,
with the idea it was supposed to go into your bus and run?
Unless it was free, or very, very cheap,
I'd be throwing a brick right now,
Not 'doing it myself'..
The valvetrain of a new motor isn't supposed to come apart in 50 miles.
A 110 with stock carb is just WRONG for any motor, especially a bus.
If you actually paid good money for that motor,
And it's 'rebuilt',
It should run, FFS!
You got yourself a nice looking bus right there,
and obviously a lot of time and effort in.
Don't let yourself get shammed by some scam, my man! |
I purchased the motor turn key. It ran well when I got it. Then the washer broke and I took the carb off for cleaning. I haven't been able to tune it since. I was happy with how it was performing for the 30 miles of trouble free driving I had. So I am going to keep working on getting this combo right before throwing in the towel, I know it can work. And my engine builder was helpful when I showed him the broken washer, he met me and replaced it, then gave me a few extras just in case of another breaking.
As far as the price, it was the right price. And it came with a warrantee.
As far as the ICT's, from what I have read up on those wont be much better than the 34pict3 I have on it now. And I don't have the manifolds for them or the linkage. And they also don't have a vacuum port for my dist. Plus that may void my warrantee, which I would really like to keep.
I am going to be working on this again on Friday and I will report back. And do remember, I had it idling at 1200rpm at one point. So it will idle below 1400. That is just crap. I think the trick he used was to loosen up the idle jet on the right side of the carb to allow more air flow. So I ordered a larger one that is on its way. I also ordered a larger main jet. I'm matching CCPalmer's jetting.
_________________
Brutis Patches Izabich: 1970 VW Transporter - 1776cc DP
Current State: Projects never truly end...
Location: Grosse Pointe, Michigan
Other cars: 2003 F150, 2003 Jetta GLI vr6-6sp
Sambastic: adj; the quality of being nit picky, elitist, expecting everyone to do things the way they believe is best with no regard to situation, "sambastic" |
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Spike0180
Samba Member
Joined: June 06, 2015
Posts: 2269
Location: Detroit, Michigan
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| Posted: Sun May 28, 2017 1:39 pm Post subject: Re: My soon to be new 1970 vw transporter (restoration) |
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I check my advance at idle (1100rpm) and it seemed to be around 30* with vacuum hoses attached. This seemed high to me. Maybe my distributor's mechanical advance is stuck open?
And I seem to have a pretty consistent misfire. I pulled plug wires while running and found that 4-2 had significantly less effect on the engine than 1-3.
And Robbie, your starting procedures did help with starts. Thank you.
I am also able to start the car without a choke on (when warm/hot) and I did change my jetting to match ccpalmer (75 air 65 idle and 135 main)
_________________
Brutis Patches Izabich: 1970 VW Transporter - 1776cc DP
Current State: Projects never truly end...
Location: Grosse Pointe, Michigan
Other cars: 2003 F150, 2003 Jetta GLI vr6-6sp
Sambastic: adj; the quality of being nit picky, elitist, expecting everyone to do things the way they believe is best with no regard to situation, "sambastic" |
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airschooled
Air-Schooled
Joined: April 04, 2012
Posts: 12716
Location: on a bike ride somewhere
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| Posted: Sun May 28, 2017 3:34 pm Post subject: Re: My soon to be new 1970 vw transporter (restoration) |
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| Spike0180 wrote: |
| I check my advance at idle (1100rpm) and it seemed to be around 30* with vacuum hoses attached. This seemed high to me. Maybe my distributor's mechanical advance is stuck open? |
This sounds ridiculous. There should be no vacuum advance at idle. Hose off/on at idle should make no change. Does it? This was probably a mechanic's ploy to get the thing to idle.
Is there still a hole in the throttle plate?
Intake manifold nuts 12 ft/lbs?
A tricky thing about a "new" engine is how tight the internals are. My 30pict3 1600 single port didn't idle for shit without the big brass speed screw ALL the way out after break-in day. Every day I was able to turn it in maybe a half turn, until about a month of daily driving loosened the engine up enough to where it stabilized. This will be compounded with your cam choice. So get it running smoothly, and trick it into idling once it's broken in.
Robbie
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Spike0180
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Joined: June 06, 2015
Posts: 2269
Location: Detroit, Michigan
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| Posted: Sun May 28, 2017 3:44 pm Post subject: Re: My soon to be new 1970 vw transporter (restoration) |
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| asiab3 wrote: |
| Spike0180 wrote: |
| I check my advance at idle (1100rpm) and it seemed to be around 30* with vacuum hoses attached. This seemed high to me. Maybe my distributor's mechanical advance is stuck open? |
This sounds ridiculous. There should be no vacuum advance at idle. Hose off/on at idle should make no change. Does it? This was probably a mechanic's ploy to get the thing to idle.
Is there still a hole in the throttle plate?
Intake manifold nuts 12 ft/lbs?
A tricky thing about a "new" engine is how tight the internals are. My 30pict3 1600 single port didn't idle for shit without the big brass speed screw ALL the way out after break-in day. Every day I was able to turn it in maybe a half turn, until about a month of daily driving loosened the engine up enough to where it stabilized. This will be compounded with your cam choice. So get it running smoothly, and trick it into idling once it's broken in.
Robbie |
Maybe I'll take off the distributor and look inside a bit. See if anything was tampered with. Thoughts? As for the vacuum, it seems to run and start better with the vacuum on.
There is still a hole in the throttle plate
I'll check again. I have sprayed with carb cleaner and have yet to find any vacuum leaks.
Hmmm... how was your mixture screw when you had your speed screw all the way out? My mixture screw does very little to the engine idle. I have actually even had to engine running with the mixture screw in 100%
_________________
Brutis Patches Izabich: 1970 VW Transporter - 1776cc DP
Current State: Projects never truly end...
Location: Grosse Pointe, Michigan
Other cars: 2003 F150, 2003 Jetta GLI vr6-6sp
Sambastic: adj; the quality of being nit picky, elitist, expecting everyone to do things the way they believe is best with no regard to situation, "sambastic" |
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