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Spike0180
Samba Member
Joined: June 06, 2015
Posts: 2269
Location: Detroit, Michigan
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 Posted: Wed Aug 02, 2017 11:49 am Post subject: Re: My soon to be new 1970 vw transporter (restoration) |
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| Alan Brase wrote: |
| Spike0180 wrote: |
| Alan Brase wrote: |
| Spike0180 wrote: |
Btw, my wiring does follow the wiring diagrams, minus the door buzzer (mine was broken), awg gauges and different colors. But it does follow the wiring diagrams |
Did the factory drape the black wire to the fuseholder and then to the backup lite switch OVER the heat riser pipe?
I think perhaps I did not make it clear enough. FOLLOW ALL THE DETAILS. YOU DON"T EVEN NEED TO KNOW WHY. I don't mean copy the diagrams. I mean copy what was there originally.
Al
Al |
Yeah, I wont be following all the details. I'm not willing to track down all the parts, but I will in the future be more careful on where my wires run and making sure they stay where I decide to put that. #ziptielife |
(this pic is of a 73-74 type1, so not quite the same, but the wiring is the same.)
WOW. My point exactly. You MIGHT just bother to LOOK at another factory wired 68-71 bus engine and discover that there is a FUSEHOLDER attached to a short end of the black wire that feeds the coil, then 2 points on the carb... Then the backup light FUSE. (attached to that funny spring clip on the fan housing.)
So, you wasted several peoples' time, the tow truck fee, and pretty much badly damaged the original wiring in the bus, because because you are "not willing to track down all the parts"?
Seems to me you just caused about $1000 worth of damage.
Mark your 2018 calendar for Aug2, 2018. Write this forum back in a year and see if this still seems like a good idea. (A year from today.) Tell us how you perfectly repaired the damage from the red hot wire from the ignition switch.
Al |
1) The inline reverse light fuse is in place, though not clipped to the fan housing.
2) If you are proposing that there should be two fuses back there: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/info/wiring/baybus_70_wiring.jpg
3) I have AAA, with unlimited 15mile tows. No cost, AAA pays the tow company. All I did was waste 3hrs of my time (which I met a friend during) and fed the economy.
4) Upon testing, the only damage was done was the first 2'-3' of the 1.5mm black wire from the coil to fuse box/ignition. There seems to be no shorts through the ignition itself, and the 6mm red starting wire was unharmed. *All major melting was in the engine bay*
5) Cost of damage: 5$ of wire/adapters that I had already made the investment in prior to. Not $1000. (Do you do your own work? I can get a entire new harness for around $300.)
6) Feel free to check back on August 2nd, 2018. I will be glad to field any questions you have.
Do you have any other questions you would like help with today?
_________________
Brutis Patches Izabich: 1970 VW Transporter - 1776cc DP
Current State: Projects never truly end...
Location: Grosse Pointe, Michigan
Other cars: 2003 F150, 2003 Jetta GLI vr6-6sp
Sambastic: adj; the quality of being nit picky, elitist, expecting everyone to do things the way they believe is best with no regard to situation, "sambastic" |
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Abscate
Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2014
Posts: 22668
Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
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| Posted: Wed Aug 02, 2017 2:51 pm Post subject: Re: My soon to be new 1970 vw transporter (restoration) |
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Terry?/ Terry? Is that you??
_________________
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Spike0180
Samba Member
Joined: June 06, 2015
Posts: 2269
Location: Detroit, Michigan
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| Posted: Wed Aug 02, 2017 2:58 pm Post subject: Re: My soon to be new 1970 vw transporter (restoration) |
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| Abscate wrote: |
| Terry?/ Terry? Is that you?? |
No, this is not Terry. You must continue your quest.
_________________
Brutis Patches Izabich: 1970 VW Transporter - 1776cc DP
Current State: Projects never truly end...
Location: Grosse Pointe, Michigan
Other cars: 2003 F150, 2003 Jetta GLI vr6-6sp
Sambastic: adj; the quality of being nit picky, elitist, expecting everyone to do things the way they believe is best with no regard to situation, "sambastic" |
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Alan Brase
Samba Member
Joined: March 28, 2004
Posts: 4532
Location: Cedar Falls, Iowa
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| Posted: Wed Aug 02, 2017 9:51 pm Post subject: Re: My soon to be new 1970 vw transporter (restoration) |
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| Spike0180 wrote: |
| Abscate wrote: |
| Terry?/ Terry? Is that you?? |
No, this is not Terry. You must continue your quest. |
No, Spike, he means me! (Terry is my mentor, but I am not worthy!)
So, I'm sorry if I was a little harsh. Life is harsh. I'm just a messenger.
Do you know what part contacted the heat riser? If your wires are installed like the factory, most of that circuit should be thru the fuse. (Only one fuse, in the black plastic cigar clipped to the fan housing.)
I'm pretty sure all the short circuit current from grounding out the black ignition wire goes thru the ignition switch. So visualize the red hot wire. From the switch ALL the way to the coil/ heat riser.
And REALLY, You can pretty much have perfect performance from a wire harness with ONE wire's insulation totally roasted, just so long as it did not melt thru to any others.
No, of course I do my own electrical work. And I would not EVER put in a NEW/ REPRO wiring harness into one of these. (If it melted thru the tape towards the front of the vehicle, I'd tie a new wire to the old and pull the old wire out and the new one in. Trying to match the color, if possible.)
I'm an old tightwad. And pretty good with wiring. I also believe new stuff is ALMOST ALWAYS not as good as old stuff. Just gaudier.
SO, how did the green wire end up touching the heat riser and yet not go thru the fuse?
Al
_________________
Al Brase
Projects: 67 sunroof bug, 67 Porsche 912 Targa, 70 Westy
Dec 1955 Single Cab pickup WANT 15" BUS RIMS dated 8/55, thru 12/55
To New owners: 1969 doublecab, 1971 Dormobile
Vanagons:
80 P27 Westy JUL 1979, 3rd oldest known US
83 1.6TD Vanagon, 87 Wolfie Westy daily driver, swap meet home |
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Alan Brase
Samba Member
Joined: March 28, 2004
Posts: 4532
Location: Cedar Falls, Iowa
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| Posted: Wed Aug 02, 2017 10:44 pm Post subject: Re: My soon to be new 1970 vw transporter (restoration) |
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| Abscate wrote: |
| Terry?/ Terry? Is that you?? |
Ah, you flatter me. Alas, no, not
Terry, but I know him. I am not worthy
Thanks, tho.
Al
_________________
Al Brase
Projects: 67 sunroof bug, 67 Porsche 912 Targa, 70 Westy
Dec 1955 Single Cab pickup WANT 15" BUS RIMS dated 8/55, thru 12/55
To New owners: 1969 doublecab, 1971 Dormobile
Vanagons:
80 P27 Westy JUL 1979, 3rd oldest known US
83 1.6TD Vanagon, 87 Wolfie Westy daily driver, swap meet home |
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Spike0180
Samba Member
Joined: June 06, 2015
Posts: 2269
Location: Detroit, Michigan
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| Posted: Thu Aug 03, 2017 6:58 am Post subject: Re: My soon to be new 1970 vw transporter (restoration) |
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| Alan Brase wrote: |
| Spike0180 wrote: |
| Abscate wrote: |
| Terry?/ Terry? Is that you?? |
No, this is not Terry. You must continue your quest. |
No, Spike, he means me! (Terry is my mentor, but I am not worthy!)
So, I'm sorry if I was a little harsh. Life is harsh. I'm just a messenger.
Do you know what part contacted the heat riser? If your wires are installed like the factory, most of that circuit should be thru the fuse. (Only one fuse, in the black plastic cigar clipped to the fan housing.)
I'm pretty sure all the short circuit current from grounding out the black ignition wire goes thru the ignition switch. So visualize the red hot wire. From the switch ALL the way to the coil/ heat riser.
And REALLY, You can pretty much have perfect performance from a wire harness with ONE wire's insulation totally roasted, just so long as it did not melt thru to any others.
No, of course I do my own electrical work. And I would not EVER put in a NEW/ REPRO wiring harness into one of these. (If it melted thru the tape towards the front of the vehicle, I'd tie a new wire to the old and pull the old wire out and the new one in. Trying to match the color, if possible.)
I'm an old tightwad. And pretty good with wiring. I also believe new stuff is ALMOST ALWAYS not as good as old stuff. Just gaudier.
SO, how did the green wire end up touching the heat riser and yet not go thru the fuse?
Al |
My fuse was sitting next to the inner wheel well of the back drivers side wheel. So when the wire melted to the heat riser, there was no fuse between the contact point and the coil and therefor the ignition wires. I did catch the smoking very early, the wires up front had just begun to get hot. So those were saved. The coil side of the wire wasn't as lucky.
I would love to have a nice original set of wiring for my bus, but the only junk yard around me that has buses (1.5hrs away) has been stripped already. Being the only place with aircooled stuff most the good bus parts have been stripped out now. But they do have a ton of old engines everywhere! (I bet most are bug engines.)
As an update, I did do some re-wiring of the engine bay (i'll post a picture in a few hours) And was able to check if it still started easily. It did start much easier still! so, I must have had a short somewhere in the system that was burnt. Or my coil was going bad, or my points weren't adjusted just right (though the points adjustment was very very little if any).
_________________
Brutis Patches Izabich: 1970 VW Transporter - 1776cc DP
Current State: Projects never truly end...
Location: Grosse Pointe, Michigan
Other cars: 2003 F150, 2003 Jetta GLI vr6-6sp
Sambastic: adj; the quality of being nit picky, elitist, expecting everyone to do things the way they believe is best with no regard to situation, "sambastic" |
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Tcash
Samba Member
Joined: July 20, 2011
Posts: 12844
Location: San Jose, California, USA
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| Posted: Thu Aug 03, 2017 8:25 am Post subject: Re: My soon to be new 1970 vw transporter (restoration) |
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You may want to Ohm test the black wire from the ignition switch to the coil.
Also do a Voltage drop test across the Ign. swtch.
Ignition switch testing , voltage drop test
At the very least. Engine running. Test the voltage at the coil +positive #15 terminal. Anywhere near 9.6 volts replace the Ign. switch and or the black wire.
Good luck
Tcash
P.S. had the same thing happen, but luckily it was the oil pressure switch wire, instead. |
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Spike0180
Samba Member
Joined: June 06, 2015
Posts: 2269
Location: Detroit, Michigan
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| Posted: Thu Aug 03, 2017 9:07 am Post subject: Re: My soon to be new 1970 vw transporter (restoration) |
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| Tcash wrote: |
You may want to Ohm test the black wire from the ignition switch to the coil.
Also do a Voltage drop test across the Ign. swtch.
Ignition switch testing , voltage drop test
At the very least. Engine running. Test the voltage at the coil +positive #15 terminal. Anywhere near 9.6 volts replace the Ign. switch and or the black wire.
Good luck
Tcash
P.S. had the same thing happen, but luckily it was the oil pressure switch wire, instead. |
Thanks, I'll put that on my list of things to do soon. I don't have an ohm meter (I know, something I should have) but this gives me a reason to purchase one =)
And here is that picture of the engine bay now: it looks like wires are still close, but they are pulled well away from heat riser well, I should probably tie those up a little better yet still. I'll do that BEFORE driving this time.
_________________
Brutis Patches Izabich: 1970 VW Transporter - 1776cc DP
Current State: Projects never truly end...
Location: Grosse Pointe, Michigan
Other cars: 2003 F150, 2003 Jetta GLI vr6-6sp
Sambastic: adj; the quality of being nit picky, elitist, expecting everyone to do things the way they believe is best with no regard to situation, "sambastic" |
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lil-jinx
Samba Member
Joined: August 14, 2013
Posts: 1109
Location: New Brunswick,Canada
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| Posted: Thu Aug 03, 2017 10:44 am Post subject: Re: My soon to be new 1970 vw transporter (restoration) |
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checking wire with a multi-meter can be deceiving,it only takes one strand of wire to show 12 volts or continuity,to prove that the wire is good and able to carry a load test it with a head light,if it lights up bright then the circuit is sound.
_________________
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=620186
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=668799
1974 Bay Westfalia. she likes to be called Ethel.
1968 Dune Buggy
1974 parts bus
A smart man learns from his mistakes,a very smart man learns from other's mistakes. |
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jakokombi
Samba Member
Joined: August 15, 2010
Posts: 779
Location: Milwaukee
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| Posted: Thu Aug 03, 2017 11:57 am Post subject: Re: My soon to be new 1970 vw transporter (restoration) |
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[/quote]
If you should find yourself near Milwaukee, let me know. I can give you a proper air cleaner.
_________________
70 Sunroof Kombi
85 Motherfukinvanagon
73 Thing
72 Baja |
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Spike0180
Samba Member
Joined: June 06, 2015
Posts: 2269
Location: Detroit, Michigan
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| Posted: Thu Aug 03, 2017 12:58 pm Post subject: Re: My soon to be new 1970 vw transporter (restoration) |
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If you should find yourself near Milwaukee, let me know. I can give you a proper air cleaner.[/quote]
Thanks, unlikely I'll be over that way anytime soon. Also, my Oh so wonderful PO hacked the oil bath stand off... Thank you though.
_________________
Brutis Patches Izabich: 1970 VW Transporter - 1776cc DP
Current State: Projects never truly end...
Location: Grosse Pointe, Michigan
Other cars: 2003 F150, 2003 Jetta GLI vr6-6sp
Sambastic: adj; the quality of being nit picky, elitist, expecting everyone to do things the way they believe is best with no regard to situation, "sambastic" |
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ccpalmer
Samba Member
Joined: September 17, 2006
Posts: 3850
Location: Ann Arbor, Michigan
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| Posted: Thu Aug 03, 2017 1:02 pm Post subject: Re: My soon to be new 1970 vw transporter (restoration) |
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You're good enough with metal work to fab yourself a proper holder for your back-up light fuse that mounts onto the coil bracket bolt. My purist side gasps at the sight of the zip ties on the heat tube.  
_________________
'71 Westy |
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Spike0180
Samba Member
Joined: June 06, 2015
Posts: 2269
Location: Detroit, Michigan
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| Posted: Thu Aug 03, 2017 1:41 pm Post subject: Re: My soon to be new 1970 vw transporter (restoration) |
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| ccpalmer wrote: |
| You're good enough with metal work to fab yourself a proper holder for your back-up light fuse that mounts onto the coil bracket bolt. My purist side gasps at the sight of the zip ties on the heat tube. |
hey, the air isn't hot at that point. Seemed like as good a place as any.
_________________
Brutis Patches Izabich: 1970 VW Transporter - 1776cc DP
Current State: Projects never truly end...
Location: Grosse Pointe, Michigan
Other cars: 2003 F150, 2003 Jetta GLI vr6-6sp
Sambastic: adj; the quality of being nit picky, elitist, expecting everyone to do things the way they believe is best with no regard to situation, "sambastic" |
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KentABQ 
Samba Member
Joined: September 11, 2016
Posts: 2406
Location: Albuquerque NM
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| Posted: Thu Aug 03, 2017 7:18 pm Post subject: Re: My soon to be new 1970 vw transporter (restoration) |
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| lil-jinx wrote: |
| checking wire with a multi-meter can be deceiving,it only takes one strand of wire to show 12 volts or continuity,to prove that the wire is good and able to carry a load test it with a head light,if it lights up bright then the circuit is sound. |
I've always wondered why some people bother using a headlight, when a little test light would work. But that makes perfect sense! You need the load on the circuit to prove it can handle the current. 
Thanks lil jinx! I'm going to do that in the future.
_________________
-Kent-
1976 Riviera, 1.8l FI chrome yellow VAN - "Chloe"
"I must say, how can you be in a bad mood driving this vehicle full of vibrant color.
Cars of today are so bland in comparison. It's like driving a celebration!" ---WildIdea
Bus ownership via emoticons:
        ---williamM |
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Alan Brase
Samba Member
Joined: March 28, 2004
Posts: 4532
Location: Cedar Falls, Iowa
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| Posted: Thu Aug 03, 2017 9:36 pm Post subject: Re: My soon to be new 1970 vw transporter (restoration) |
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| KentPS wrote: |
| lil-jinx wrote: |
| checking wire with a multi-meter can be deceiving,it only takes one strand of wire to show 12 volts or continuity,to prove that the wire is good and able to carry a load test it with a head light,if it lights up bright then the circuit is sound. |
I've always wondered why some people bother using a headlight, when a little test light would work. But that makes perfect sense! You need the load on the circuit to prove it can handle the current.
Thanks lil jinx! I'm going to do that in the future. |
Well, kinda. The big question is, how bright is 10 volts? Best just turn it on with a load applied, test with a volt meter.
The headlight is a very good improvised load tester, but not well calibrated.
Al
_________________
Al Brase
Projects: 67 sunroof bug, 67 Porsche 912 Targa, 70 Westy
Dec 1955 Single Cab pickup WANT 15" BUS RIMS dated 8/55, thru 12/55
To New owners: 1969 doublecab, 1971 Dormobile
Vanagons:
80 P27 Westy JUL 1979, 3rd oldest known US
83 1.6TD Vanagon, 87 Wolfie Westy daily driver, swap meet home |
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Spike0180
Samba Member
Joined: June 06, 2015
Posts: 2269
Location: Detroit, Michigan
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| Posted: Mon Aug 07, 2017 8:36 am Post subject: Re: My soon to be new 1970 vw transporter (restoration) |
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I got to take the van out to church on sunday morning. She worked really well. She had a pretty bad squeak on first start up and was down on power and response time, I was on my way to take her back home. But by the time I had gone around the block, she had improved greatly so I just continued driving.
-Still no starting problems, first right up on 1 or 2 cranks.
-Idle is high (1500? haven't actually checked), but haven't tried adjusting it yet.
-Engine temps were down (190 ish) after my 30 minute drive, ambient temps around 75*F
-I still have a grind when at higher speeds, I'm going to try adjusting and cleaning my clutch pedal/cable soon.
-Still need to change out my tie rods (I have had them sitting in my basement for 3 months now?... dang...)
-Need to fix my horn issue, I think I know the issue. I just need to get on the ground and fix it ( )
Till next time. I'll post a picture of the next time I take her out.
_________________
Brutis Patches Izabich: 1970 VW Transporter - 1776cc DP
Current State: Projects never truly end...
Location: Grosse Pointe, Michigan
Other cars: 2003 F150, 2003 Jetta GLI vr6-6sp
Sambastic: adj; the quality of being nit picky, elitist, expecting everyone to do things the way they believe is best with no regard to situation, "sambastic" |
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ccpalmer
Samba Member
Joined: September 17, 2006
Posts: 3850
Location: Ann Arbor, Michigan
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| Posted: Mon Aug 07, 2017 11:17 am Post subject: Re: My soon to be new 1970 vw transporter (restoration) |
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Sounds like you're getting there...
You know we love photos!
Lemme know when it's ready to meet my Bus!
_________________
'71 Westy |
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Bagger04
Samba Member
Joined: August 03, 2015
Posts: 33
Location: Port Huron, Michigan
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| Posted: Tue Aug 08, 2017 5:17 am Post subject: Re: My soon to be new 1970 vw transporter (restoration) |
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| Spike0180 if you need a hand give me a shout. Going to try and figure out back up lites on mine today |
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Spike0180
Samba Member
Joined: June 06, 2015
Posts: 2269
Location: Detroit, Michigan
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| Posted: Tue Aug 08, 2017 6:56 am Post subject: Re: My soon to be new 1970 vw transporter (restoration) |
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| Bagger04 wrote: |
| Spike0180 if you need a hand give me a shout. Going to try and figure out back up lites on mine today |
Pro tip: tie that wire up away from your heat riser. Lol let me know if you need help figuring it out, I've done some wiring. Even if some say it sucks
_________________
Brutis Patches Izabich: 1970 VW Transporter - 1776cc DP
Current State: Projects never truly end...
Location: Grosse Pointe, Michigan
Other cars: 2003 F150, 2003 Jetta GLI vr6-6sp
Sambastic: adj; the quality of being nit picky, elitist, expecting everyone to do things the way they believe is best with no regard to situation, "sambastic" |
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Abscate
Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2014
Posts: 22668
Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
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| Posted: Tue Aug 08, 2017 7:23 am Post subject: Re: My soon to be new 1970 vw transporter (restoration) |
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| Spike0180 wrote: |
| Abscate wrote: |
| Terry?/ Terry? Is that you?? |
No, this is not Terry. You must continue your quest. |
What is your name? Abscate
What is your quest? I seek the Holy Kay-le
What.....is the terminal velocity of an unladen Bay? German Bay or Brazilian Bay?
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.ssS! |
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