Ultimate Vanagon 2WD LIFT

hrtm · Posted: Sun Aug 30, 2015 4:22 pm Post subject: Ultimate Vanagon 2WD LIFT

Here ye Here ye!

Chime in & tell us what is the ultimate 2WD lift available?! I know it is a drastic difference between stock vans: '84 (relatively high) and '91 Carat (relatively low).

I'm looking to achieve roughly a 19"-19.5" clearance - hub center to wheel well flare. My 84 Westy already does about 18" empty but i've not idea if this is stock or not. Regardless the springs and shocks look old and I'm in the mood to update.

I hear the GoWesty springs are a bit mushy (but this was on a '90 which sat REALLY LOW stock).

I've heard others say go 2" Syncro rear (and that's uh - 2" *lift* springs BTW?) and Moog in the front (but which Moog? - they have A LOT OF SPRINGS DUDE!)

let me into your magic castle of lift-it-tude!!!
ps - i presume yes but, ball joint spacers?

j_dirge · Posted: Sun Aug 30, 2015 5:19 pm Post subject:

There is no one particular "ultimate" lift.. but instead a variety of blends that achieve different end results..
There are big trade-offs as you go much over 18" on a non-syncro...

For one, these are all "suspension" lifts.. and by "lifiting", you are moving the suspension thru its arc and the end result is less droop.. or "topping out"

Much above 18" puts too much stress on the CVs.. so you will want to change out to 944CVs or 930CVs.. or lower the engine as was done on syncros.

The front suspension is maxed out at about 21" IIRC.. so at 19.5", you have only 1.5" of downward travel... which sucks on uneven roads.

How many suspension threads have you read?
Because there are dozens of them that discuss this topic ad nauseum.

A good place to start is the "pre-runner" thread for a look at at a hundred or so vans.
Here:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=389820&highlight=prerunner
_________________
-89 GL Westy, SVX.. finally.

-57 pan f/g buggy with a 67 pancake Type 3 "S"
"Jimi Hendrix owned one. Richard Nixon did not"
-Grand Tour, Season 1, episodes 4 and 5

thasty07 · Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2015 2:00 pm Post subject:

Merian · Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2015 2:13 pm Post subject:

graft a Vanagon body onto a logging skidder

jetpoweredmonkey · Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2015 6:25 pm Post subject:

GW 1.5" kit is about the max lift before you start ruining CVs, have an impossible to align front end, and top out the shocks. Can you go higher...anything is possible, but it will not bolt on and you will need a large bag of money.

My GW springs are holding solid with no sag after 2 years. Good stuff.

Stock rate shocks are way too soft with these springs.

Lots of good readin' in that Prerunner thread. Note that it matters greatly if you have a Westy vs. tin top.
_________________
1991 Westfalia 2WD

hrtm · Posted: Fri Sep 04, 2015 1:51 am Post subject:

hey jetpoweredmonkey

Would you elaborate on what kind of lift you got out of the GW springs? I'm a bit impartial to the hub-center to fender lip reading. My 84 is pretty high by many later Vanagon standards (I've often had it mistaken for a Syncro) but it's all a string of PO's work so I'm not sure what I've got going on, stock or otherwise. For what it's worth I'm about 18 maybe 18 1/4" in the rear and about 17 3/4" in the front. Pretty swell and no complaints but I'm trying to do a bunch of homework for when/if the current setup needs to come out due to age and wear. Also rocking the stock 14" wheels with General Grabber AT2s - again with no complaints. (Curious about Maxxis Big Horns for next time nonetheless but I actually don't have plans to go 15" or 16" on the wheels any time soon - call me weird but I like the 14"s - plus my stock 1.9 would likely not handle too much more diameter at the drivewheel anyway.) Also I'm quite familiar with the need for a balljoint spacer in the front to keep camber correct and in extreme cases the use of a Syncro engine carrier or a similar mod to drop the engine a little to keep the CVs happy.

So, as a sideline, I was at GoWesty not too long ago, literally on the eve of everyone taking off for Syncrofest. Their chalkboard green faux Westy was off the ramp jack display out front and merely parked in the parking lot. It so happened when I arrived the only other spot available was right next to it. I could swear I was looking at a 3" difference in overall ride height (16"/15" wheels and tires mind you). So it's been hard to determine what's possible and what's not possible. Sometimes I see really extreme lift with little sense of any mechanical shortcomings.

Annoyingly, many folks seem to be vague and obtuse about what they're using as though it's some sort of trade secret all of a sudden.

Lastly, how do you find the GW springs as far as ride quality. I hear so much mixed review - many complain that the springs are ultimately too soft and mushy.
_________________
'84 Vanagon Westfalia
'69 Beetle

insyncro · Posted: Fri Sep 04, 2015 6:34 am Post subject:

Trade secret Laughing

iliketowalk · Posted: Fri Sep 04, 2015 6:45 am Post subject:

I would skip the balljoint spacers and hit up Burley for some adjustable upper arms, much nicer solution - especially now that they have rebuildable joints with zerks...

At 18.5" I started eating CV's, so if you're serious about it, stay below that or invest in the 930 Axle Kit.

Good luck!
_________________
1986 Weekender "Birch"

insyncro · Posted: Fri Sep 04, 2015 6:49 am Post subject:

j_dirge · Posted: Fri Sep 04, 2015 8:38 am Post subject:

thasty07 · Posted: Fri Sep 04, 2015 9:12 am Post subject:

You gotta do your research dude, there are no trade secrets about what people are doing.

All the mods I did, I did through just researching what other people did and then getting creative with it.

A quick google search reveals exactly what moog springs you need by reading others documented efforts, seriously, thats how I figured it out.
Google (vanagon moog springs) first thread says it all

5660 are what you need...

Research dude, you'll get way further in your van travels! Very Happy

hrtm · Posted: Fri Sep 04, 2015 9:42 am Post subject:

I hear ya - don't mean to come off like I'm trying to have the setup given to me on a silver platter. I'm just an information sponge right now (so behind the scenes yes, I am simultaneously researching on many fronts - not just here) and I'm genuinely curious what folks have done and how they'd rate their experiences.
_________________
'84 Vanagon Westfalia
'69 Beetle

dobryan · Posted: Fri Sep 04, 2015 9:48 am Post subject:

There are a bunch of suspension threads where folks have listed what they have done and how they like it. Many get tired of restating that over again every time a new topic asks a question. A more targeted approach is to get further through your research and then ask within an existing thread a specific question that is unique and was not covered. This takes more of your effort but is likely to get a better more detailed response. Very Happy

_________________
Dave O
'87 Westy w/ 2002 Subaru EJ25 and Peloquin TBD

"To travel hopefully is a better thing than to arrive." Robert Louis Stevenson

MD>Canada>AK>WA>OR>CA>AZ>UT>WY>SD
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=620646

Building a bus for travel in Europe (euroBus)
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=695371

The Western Syncro build
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=746794

insyncro · Posted: Fri Sep 04, 2015 11:49 am Post subject:

Bottom line, the ultimate 2wd suspension is updated to Syncro.
You have access to so many more parts this way.
Don't add the front diff and use Syncro outer joints as stub axles for a truly awesome 2wd and lifted van.

Burley's wares are what will make the ride.
The valving and spring selection will be advised by Burl for your van and needs.
Adjustable, upgradable and much more capable than a stock height 2wd...plus add a few more parts and build in AWD with VW or Subaru parts.

tjet · Posted: Fri Sep 04, 2015 12:48 pm Post subject:

I bought a 35mm lift from this company in Finland. It was for my Syncro, but they may have something for a 2wd not on their w/s. BTW, the customer service is excellent.

http://www.oberschlachter.com/shop/

j_dirge · Posted: Fri Sep 04, 2015 1:03 pm Post subject:

If I were to do it all again, I might take the van to Burl's shop and have him cut the front RCA beam off (only a few welds) and block it 1-1.5" lower.
Then extend the steering rack mounts down.
The lower control arm would be relatively easy to space as well.

This would allow for the use of a wider range of spring rates.. maintain ALL the droop and upward travel as the van has in stock config.
It would also accommodate tries to 30.. even 31" (with fore and aft "syncro 16" fender trimming.)

It is quite feasible that with some additional fabrication.. one could see more travel front and rear, as well... with custom swing arm in rear and a new pivot point forward of OEM.. and fabricated longer LCA in front would allow pivot points further inboard adding travel.

This would be entering the realm of a true "pre-runner" and would cost accordingly

Could be fun.. with a 3.0, 3.3, 3.6.. 1.8T, 2.0T.. something that could turn those wheels

Ultimate? I dunno.

Now we just need a transaxle that is good beyond 10k miles to put power to the wheels.
_________________
-89 GL Westy, SVX.. finally.

-57 pan f/g buggy with a 67 pancake Type 3 "S"
"Jimi Hendrix owned one. Richard Nixon did not"
-Grand Tour, Season 1, episodes 4 and 5

iliketowalk · Posted: Fri Sep 04, 2015 1:41 pm Post subject:

thasty07 · Posted: Fri Sep 04, 2015 2:51 pm Post subject:

insyncro · Posted: Fri Sep 04, 2015 5:01 pm Post subject:

I need to browse his site more often Shocked

my bad.

I am mounting the billet Syncro version right now and will have a testdrive on them soon.

UrS6Vanagon · Posted: Fri Sep 04, 2015 7:42 pm Post subject:

I recently got a set of the new Burley control arms with zerk fittings, 2WD GW lift. Haven't installed them yet but they look sweet!

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

_________________
1986 Westfalia Weekender
2019 VW Golf R
2010 Touareg TDI
1995 Audi S6
1987 Audi 4000 quattro
1984 Audi 4000 quattro
2011 Nissan Pro-4x


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