Hello! Log in or Register   |  Help  |  Donate  |  Buy Shirts  See all banner ads | Advertise on TheSamba.com  
TheSamba.com
 
Ultimate Vanagon 2WD LIFT
Page: 1, 2  Next
Forum Index -> Vanagon Share: Facebook Twitter
Reply to topic
Print View
Quick sort: Show newest posts on top | Show oldest posts on top View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
hrtm
Samba Member


Joined: August 21, 2015
Posts: 149
Location: Albuquerque, NM
hrtm is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Aug 30, 2015 4:22 pm    Post subject: Ultimate Vanagon 2WD LIFT Reply with quote

Here ye Here ye!

Chime in & tell us what is the ultimate 2WD lift available?! I know it is a drastic difference between stock vans: '84 (relatively high) and '91 Carat (relatively low).

I'm looking to achieve roughly a 19"-19.5" clearance - hub center to wheel well flare. My 84 Westy already does about 18" empty but i've not idea if this is stock or not. Regardless the springs and shocks look old and I'm in the mood to update.

I hear the GoWesty springs are a bit mushy (but this was on a '90 which sat REALLY LOW stock).

I've heard others say go 2" Syncro rear (and that's uh - 2" *lift* springs BTW?) and Moog in the front (but which Moog? - they have A LOT OF SPRINGS DUDE!)

let me into your magic castle of lift-it-tude!!!
ps - i presume yes but, ball joint spacers?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Instagram Gallery Classifieds Feedback
j_dirge
Samba Member


Joined: August 08, 2007
Posts: 4614
Location: El Cerrito, CA
j_dirge is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Aug 30, 2015 5:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is no one particular "ultimate" lift.. but instead a variety of blends that achieve different end results..
There are big trade-offs as you go much over 18" on a non-syncro...

For one, these are all "suspension" lifts.. and by "lifiting", you are moving the suspension thru its arc and the end result is less droop.. or "topping out"

Much above 18" puts too much stress on the CVs.. so you will want to change out to 944CVs or 930CVs.. or lower the engine as was done on syncros.

The front suspension is maxed out at about 21" IIRC.. so at 19.5", you have only 1.5" of downward travel... which sucks on uneven roads.


How many suspension threads have you read?
Because there are dozens of them that discuss this topic ad nauseum.

A good place to start is the "pre-runner" thread for a look at at a hundred or so vans.
Here:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=389820&highlight=prerunner
_________________
-89 GL Westy, still humming along under the power of a used "WBXer of mystery"
-57 pan f/g buggy with a 67 pancake Type 3 "S"

"Jimi Hendrix owned one. Richard Nixon did not"
-Grand Tour, Season 1, episodes 4 and 5

danfromsyr wrote:
those are straight line runs with light weight race cars for only 1/4mile at a time..
not pushing a loaded brick up a mountain pass with a family of 4+ inside expecting to have an event free vacation..
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
thasty07
Samba Member


Joined: May 16, 2014
Posts: 310
Location: Bend, OR
thasty07 is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2015 2:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

j_dirge wrote:


How many suspension threads have you read?
Because there are dozens of them that discuss this topic ad nauseum.



Laughing
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Instagram Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Merian
Samba Member


Joined: January 04, 2014
Posts: 4961
Location: Orygun
Merian is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2015 2:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

graft a Vanagon body onto a logging skidder
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
jetpoweredmonkey
Samba Member


Joined: September 20, 2004
Posts: 188
Location: Sacramento, CA
jetpoweredmonkey is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2015 6:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GW 1.5" kit is about the max lift before you start ruining CVs, have an impossible to align front end, and top out the shocks. Can you go higher...anything is possible, but it will not bolt on and you will need a large bag of money.

My GW springs are holding solid with no sag after 2 years. Good stuff.

Stock rate shocks are way too soft with these springs.

Lots of good readin' in that Prerunner thread. Note that it matters greatly if you have a Westy vs. tin top.
_________________
1991 Westfalia 2WD
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
hrtm
Samba Member


Joined: August 21, 2015
Posts: 149
Location: Albuquerque, NM
hrtm is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Sep 04, 2015 1:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

hey jetpoweredmonkey

Would you elaborate on what kind of lift you got out of the GW springs? I'm a bit impartial to the hub-center to fender lip reading. My 84 is pretty high by many later Vanagon standards (I've often had it mistaken for a Syncro) but it's all a string of PO's work so I'm not sure what I've got going on, stock or otherwise. For what it's worth I'm about 18 maybe 18 1/4" in the rear and about 17 3/4" in the front. Pretty swell and no complaints but I'm trying to do a bunch of homework for when/if the current setup needs to come out due to age and wear. Also rocking the stock 14" wheels with General Grabber AT2s - again with no complaints. (Curious about Maxxis Big Horns for next time nonetheless but I actually don't have plans to go 15" or 16" on the wheels any time soon - call me weird but I like the 14"s - plus my stock 1.9 would likely not handle too much more diameter at the drivewheel anyway.) Also I'm quite familiar with the need for a balljoint spacer in the front to keep camber correct and in extreme cases the use of a Syncro engine carrier or a similar mod to drop the engine a little to keep the CVs happy.

So, as a sideline, I was at GoWesty not too long ago, literally on the eve of everyone taking off for Syncrofest. Their chalkboard green faux Westy was off the ramp jack display out front and merely parked in the parking lot. It so happened when I arrived the only other spot available was right next to it. I could swear I was looking at a 3" difference in overall ride height (16"/15" wheels and tires mind you). So it's been hard to determine what's possible and what's not possible. Sometimes I see really extreme lift with little sense of any mechanical shortcomings.

Annoyingly, many folks seem to be vague and obtuse about what they're using as though it's some sort of trade secret all of a sudden.

Lastly, how do you find the GW springs as far as ride quality. I hear so much mixed review - many complain that the springs are ultimately too soft and mushy.
_________________
'84 Vanagon Westfalia
'69 Beetle
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Instagram Gallery Classifieds Feedback
insyncro
Banned


Joined: March 07, 2002
Posts: 15087
Location: New York
insyncro is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Sep 04, 2015 6:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Trade secret Laughing
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
iliketowalk
Samba Member


Joined: April 29, 2011
Posts: 561
Location: Redding, CA
iliketowalk is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Sep 04, 2015 6:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would skip the balljoint spacers and hit up Burley for some adjustable upper arms, much nicer solution - especially now that they have rebuildable joints with zerks...

At 18.5" I started eating CV's, so if you're serious about it, stay below that or invest in the 930 Axle Kit.

Good luck!
_________________
1984 Westfalia Camper "Westy Pete" - ARB/Solar [Sold but still in the family]
1987 Westfalia Weekender "Big Blue" - EJ22/Burley UCA,Bumper/CLK/215.70.16s [Sold]
1985 Vanagon "Frank" - AAZ/NAHT/Westy [RIP #CarrFire]
1990 Carat "SportVan" [RIP #CarrFire]
1987 Syncro "Miles" [RIP #CarrFire]
1987 Syncro "Boz" - Bostig/FrontRunner/Decoupler/BFG/LED/LMNOP [Sold]
1989 Delica L300 4x4
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Classifieds Feedback
insyncro
Banned


Joined: March 07, 2002
Posts: 15087
Location: New York
insyncro is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Sep 04, 2015 6:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

iliketowalk wrote:
I would skip the balljoint spacers and hit up Burley for some adjustable upper arms, much nicer solution - especially now that they have rebuildable joints with zerks...

At 18.5" I started eating CV's, so if you're serious about it, stay below that or invest in the 930 Axle Kit.

Good luck!


I thought the rebuild able heim joints only worked with the billet Syncro arms?
Do you have steel 2wd arms with the new joints?
Let's see a picture please.
I need a few sets of those!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
j_dirge
Samba Member


Joined: August 08, 2007
Posts: 4614
Location: El Cerrito, CA
j_dirge is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Sep 04, 2015 8:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

hrtm wrote:

Annoyingly, many folks seem to be vague and obtuse about what they're using as though it's some sort of trade secret all of a sudden.

You will get precise answers with precise questions.. just as the jetpoweredmonkey has begun with.

There really are no secrets.. Just about every imaginable combination is shown in its end stage in that pre-runner thread..
Several postings list specific components used.

Perhaps a better way to word your thread title is "Help me find MY ultimate 2WD lift"
..because what you are after really depends on what you want out of it.

Keep asking the questions.. as specifically as you can.. You will get there.

FWIW.. with all the ways to skin the proverbia cat, I gained 2" of lift, just with the tires.
But that opes a whole new can of worms.
_________________
-89 GL Westy, still humming along under the power of a used "WBXer of mystery"
-57 pan f/g buggy with a 67 pancake Type 3 "S"

"Jimi Hendrix owned one. Richard Nixon did not"
-Grand Tour, Season 1, episodes 4 and 5

danfromsyr wrote:
those are straight line runs with light weight race cars for only 1/4mile at a time..
not pushing a loaded brick up a mountain pass with a family of 4+ inside expecting to have an event free vacation..
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
thasty07
Samba Member


Joined: May 16, 2014
Posts: 310
Location: Bend, OR
thasty07 is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Sep 04, 2015 9:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You gotta do your research dude, there are no trade secrets about what people are doing.

All the mods I did, I did through just researching what other people did and then getting creative with it.

A quick google search reveals exactly what moog springs you need by reading others documented efforts, seriously, thats how I figured it out.
Google (vanagon moog springs) first thread says it all

5660 are what you need...


Research dude, you'll get way further in your van travels! Very Happy
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Instagram Gallery Classifieds Feedback
hrtm
Samba Member


Joined: August 21, 2015
Posts: 149
Location: Albuquerque, NM
hrtm is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Sep 04, 2015 9:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I hear ya - don't mean to come off like I'm trying to have the setup given to me on a silver platter. I'm just an information sponge right now (so behind the scenes yes, I am simultaneously researching on many fronts - not just here) and I'm genuinely curious what folks have done and how they'd rate their experiences.
_________________
'84 Vanagon Westfalia
'69 Beetle
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Instagram Gallery Classifieds Feedback
dobryan
Samba Member


Joined: March 24, 2006
Posts: 11409
Location: Brookeville, MD
dobryan is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Sep 04, 2015 9:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There are a bunch of suspension threads where folks have listed what they have done and how they like it. Many get tired of restating that over again every time a new topic asks a question. A more targeted approach is to get further through your research and then ask within an existing thread a specific question that is unique and was not covered. This takes more of your effort but is likely to get a better more detailed response. Very Happy
_________________
Dave O
'87 Westy w/ 2002 Subaru EJ25 and Peloquin TBD

"To travel hopefully is a better thing than to arrive." Robert Louis Stevenson

Join the Vanagon Rescue Squad on the VanAlert app.
http://vanalert.com/

MD>Canada>AK>WA>OR>CA>AZ>UT>WY>SD
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=620646

Building a bus for travel in Europe
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=695371
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
insyncro
Banned


Joined: March 07, 2002
Posts: 15087
Location: New York
insyncro is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Sep 04, 2015 11:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bottom line, the ultimate 2wd suspension is updated to Syncro.
You have access to so many more parts this way.
Don't add the front diff and use Syncro outer joints as stub axles for a truly awesome 2wd and lifted van.

Burley's wares are what will make the ride.
The valving and spring selection will be advised by Burl for your van and needs.
Adjustable, upgradable and much more capable than a stock height 2wd...plus add a few more parts and build in AWD with VW or Subaru parts.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
tjet
Samba Member


Joined: June 10, 2014
Posts: 2136
Location: CA-CT
tjet is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Sep 04, 2015 12:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I bought a 35mm lift from this company in Finland. It was for my Syncro, but they may have something for a 2wd not on their w/s. BTW, the customer service is excellent.

http://www.oberschlachter.com/shop/
_________________
Really rusty lifted '87 syncro tintop beater
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Gallery Classifieds Feedback
j_dirge
Samba Member


Joined: August 08, 2007
Posts: 4614
Location: El Cerrito, CA
j_dirge is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Sep 04, 2015 1:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If I were to do it all again, I might take the van to Burl's shop and have him cut the front RCA beam off (only a few welds) and block it 1-1.5" lower.
Then extend the steering rack mounts down.
The lower control arm would be relatively easy to space as well.

This would allow for the use of a wider range of spring rates.. maintain ALL the droop and upward travel as the van has in stock config.
It would also accommodate tries to 30.. even 31" (with fore and aft "syncro 16" fender trimming.)

It is quite feasible that with some additional fabrication.. one could see more travel front and rear, as well... with custom swing arm in rear and a new pivot point forward of OEM.. and fabricated longer LCA in front would allow pivot points further inboard adding travel.

This would be entering the realm of a true "pre-runner" and would cost accordingly


Could be fun.. with a 3.0, 3.3, 3.6.. 1.8T, 2.0T.. something that could turn those wheels

Ultimate? I dunno.

Now we just need a transaxle that is good beyond 10k miles to put power to the wheels.
_________________
-89 GL Westy, still humming along under the power of a used "WBXer of mystery"
-57 pan f/g buggy with a 67 pancake Type 3 "S"

"Jimi Hendrix owned one. Richard Nixon did not"
-Grand Tour, Season 1, episodes 4 and 5

danfromsyr wrote:
those are straight line runs with light weight race cars for only 1/4mile at a time..
not pushing a loaded brick up a mountain pass with a family of 4+ inside expecting to have an event free vacation..
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
iliketowalk
Samba Member


Joined: April 29, 2011
Posts: 561
Location: Redding, CA
iliketowalk is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Sep 04, 2015 1:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

insyncro wrote:
iliketowalk wrote:
I would skip the balljoint spacers and hit up Burley for some adjustable upper arms, much nicer solution - especially now that they have rebuildable joints with zerks...

At 18.5" I started eating CV's, so if you're serious about it, stay below that or invest in the 930 Axle Kit.

Good luck!


I thought the rebuild able heim joints only worked with the billet Syncro arms?
Do you have steel 2wd arms with the new joints?
Let's see a picture please.
I need a few sets of those!


I don't have the new joints [yet] - here's a pic from the product listing on Burley's website though:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

_________________
1984 Westfalia Camper "Westy Pete" - ARB/Solar [Sold but still in the family]
1987 Westfalia Weekender "Big Blue" - EJ22/Burley UCA,Bumper/CLK/215.70.16s [Sold]
1985 Vanagon "Frank" - AAZ/NAHT/Westy [RIP #CarrFire]
1990 Carat "SportVan" [RIP #CarrFire]
1987 Syncro "Miles" [RIP #CarrFire]
1987 Syncro "Boz" - Bostig/FrontRunner/Decoupler/BFG/LED/LMNOP [Sold]
1989 Delica L300 4x4
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Classifieds Feedback
thasty07
Samba Member


Joined: May 16, 2014
Posts: 310
Location: Bend, OR
thasty07 is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Sep 04, 2015 2:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

iliketowalk wrote:
insyncro wrote:
iliketowalk wrote:
I would skip the balljoint spacers and hit up Burley for some adjustable upper arms, much nicer solution - especially now that they have rebuildable joints with zerks...

At 18.5" I started eating CV's, so if you're serious about it, stay below that or invest in the 930 Axle Kit.

Good luck!


I thought the rebuild able heim joints only worked with the billet Syncro arms?
Do you have steel 2wd arms with the new joints?
Let's see a picture please.
I need a few sets of those!




I don't have the new joints [yet] - here's a pic from the product listing on Burley's website though:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Have them! Love them! Only one issue I noticed with them
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Instagram Gallery Classifieds Feedback
insyncro
Banned


Joined: March 07, 2002
Posts: 15087
Location: New York
insyncro is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Sep 04, 2015 5:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I need to browse his site more often Shocked my bad.

I am mounting the billet Syncro version right now and will have a testdrive on them soon.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
UrS6Vanagon
Samba Member


Joined: August 26, 2012
Posts: 31
Location: Nederland, CO
UrS6Vanagon is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Sep 04, 2015 7:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I recently got a set of the new Burley control arms with zerk fittings, 2WD GW lift. Haven't installed them yet but they look sweet!

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

_________________
1986 Westfalia Weekender
2018 VW Alltrack
1995 Audi S6
1993 Audi 90 quattro
2011 Nissan Pro-4x
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Forum Index -> Vanagon All times are Mountain Standard Time/Pacific Daylight Savings Time
Page: 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

About | Help! | Advertise | Donate | Premium Membership | Privacy/Terms of Use | Contact Us | Site Map
Copyright © 1996-2020, Everett Barnes. All Rights Reserved.
Not affiliated with or sponsored by Volkswagen of America | Forum powered by phpBB