fuel starvation ? 67 VW 1500

[JackVW1959]

I have a 67 VW convertible with a 1500 engine. It was "supposed to" have been rebuilt by the previous owner. When it runs, it runs good. I have researched this before in the forum and have gone through and preformed the suggestions - but I'm still having a problem. The VW starts up right away, drives nice at 35 to 45 MPH. I can go for a long time at that speed. If I kick it up to 50 to 55 MPH for any longer than 10 to 15 minutes it starts to kick out and stutter or stop. If I slow down I can stutter back home. I have replaced the fuel pump, the push drive rod, rebuilt the carb, cleaned and sealed the gas tank, replaced fuel filter. Yes, the rubber seal is in place around the engine tin. I even moved the fuel line up and away from cylinders 3 & 4. This weekend I removed the gas tank and replaced the screen filter, the gas filter and took the carb apart and cleaned it again. (the carb was clean inside, no crap). I took the car back out and did my test run - with the same results. I want to add that when I replaced the fuel pump before, and the pump drive (4.25" long) rod I also replaced the Fuel pump flange and gasket. When I took out the old rod I found the end to be flattened and worn. The new rod has a rounded end and appears to be heat-treated. I also found the rod fit to the flange too tight and followed forum suggestions to sand the piece so it doesn't squeeze the rod as it heats up. A few weeks later I removed those pieces to try sanding a little more. I found the end of the drive rod to already be showing signs of wear! That I am concerned about. Since all the items it mentioned above were clean I need to re-visit the fuel pump issue. (I did not remove the fuel pump and rod) I will be pulling it this weekend. If It is showing more wear I fear that the cam that the drive rod runs on is probably damaged. If that's the case and it is essentially grinding the end off of the drive rod that might explain why I'm running out of fuel at higher speeds. Dropping metal chips into my engine is my other concern. Does any of this sound familiar to anyone?

I think that I might switch to an electric fuel pump, mount it up front by the tank and fuse block then pull the drive rod. Any suggestions of a decent electric fuel pump?

Has anybody else had this problem? Anybody suggest some other repair?
Thanks Jack

[Cusser]

Try running with gas cap on loosely, maybe you have a venting issue, pulling against a vacuum. This happened on mine in 1984 driving back from California, had a clogged tee in the vent line, created a vacuum in the tank, fuel would not flow.
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1970 VW (owned since 1972) and 1971 VW Convertible (owned since 1976), second owner of each. The '71 now has the 1835 engine, swapped from the '70. Second owner of each. 1988 Mazda B2200 truck, 1998 Frontier, 2014 Yukon, 2004 Frontier King Cab. All manual transmission except for the Yukon. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335294 http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335297

[grandpa pete]

Red Mr Gasket electric fuel pumps on my cars . Autozone . $ 45
Suggest bolting to shelf on opposite side of tunnel from master cylinder .

Tell everyone it's for going faster since it doesn't draw off the engine horsepower
_________________
63 two fold rag
66 sedan delivery Type 6

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=569619&highlight=sedan+delivery

[VOLKSWAGNUT]

Vent test is first order of diagnosis.. Loosen the cap and go for a drive..

What you describe also sounds like you have a bad fuel pump CAM... but its not riding on the actual camshaft ..
The fuel pump rides on the distributor drive gear.. as it has a WAVE cam for the pump rod..

It can be changed without engine disassemble

For the record I've used Mr. Gasket Micro electric external pumps too. (12s and 42s)
They work well.
Buuzzzzzzzzzzzzzz !!!!


Be sure the tunnel isn't filling with fuel.. I know NUTS right..

HA !

[JackVW1959]

I actually replaced the gas cap. I also have a clear pvc tube attached to the small vent on the gas tank. I blew through the tube before I put that tank back in. BUT - I will try with the cap loose, just because. (way back I had a Triumph Spitfire that had a plugged vent line and it acted the same way) So its worth a second check. On the first round working on the fuel system I used my compressor to blow through the tunnel line - it seemed ok. Scary to think about gas floating around in the tunnel.

It's nice to know I can swap out the distributor drive gear. I'll take it a step at a time. Gonna check the drive rod again and go then go for a drive with the gas cap loose. I like easy before labor. You all came up with some great check points and suggestions.
Thanks a lot.

[Aynthm]

Mine was doing similar and the radio was also acting strange, I found the condenser wire was pinched and bare under the distributor. Once I replaced the condenser all is good again.

[mukluk]

Easy way to tell if it's getting fuel starved -- when it starts to spit & sputter, immediately turn the ignition off and put the trans in neutral to keep the engine from being spun by the trans, then pull off the road. Once clear of all traffic, remove the top of the carburetor and check the fuel level in the float bowl. If you do, in fact, have a fuel starvation problem then the fuel level will be notably lower than normal (check the fuel level prior to the road test if you're not familiar with what the fuel level should normally look like).
_________________
1960 Ragtop w/Semaphores "Inga"

[JackVW1959]

Well, I took note of all the advice and I checked through the entire list. I checked the carb after stuttering and the bowl was empty. As I mentioned earlier, I replaced the fuel pump, twice. I replaced the fuel pump pushrod twice, same with the fuel filters. Checked the fuel line - to see if it was blocked and it was clear. I even changed the gas cap and made sure the vent tube was clear. The only thing I didn't do was change the distributor drive gear. VOLKSWAGNUT mentioned that but he also said the electric fuel pumps work as well. I checked the Mr Gasket pump on line and several others. I ended up getting the Spectra Premium/ Fuel Pump> PART# E80169 for $51.99. That also includes the fuel filter, bracket, hose and clamps. It has a limited lifetime Warranty, 2.5 to 4.5 PSI and pumps 30 GPH. The only issue was the fittings and hose are 5/16" so I had to get two reducer fittings. I hooked it up below the tank opposite the master cylinder on the passenger side. Turned on the ignition, the car started immediately but the test was how it ran at speed. I took the VW up to 55 MPH. It had only run at 55 MPH for about 10 minutes - ONCE. Well after 45 minutes at 55 MPH without a stutter, I have to conclude that my electric fuel pump has saved the day. As some point I will look at the distributor drive gear - but for now I'm just going to drive the car. Thanks, everybody for all your suggestions.

[JackVW1959]

My last conversation about fuel starvation had a number of responses. One from VOLKSWAGNUT offered a suggestion for an electric fuel pump. I purchased the item, installed it on my 67 and the engine runs great. So the band aid works but I would like to have my engine working as it was originally intended. I also checked my engine number and it appears to be an actual 67 > 0 632 992. So, I'd like to keep it just for that reason. So, my new question revolves around the fuel pump cam. VOLKSWAGNUT attached a picture of three versions, an "early 40HP", a "MID 40HP" AND A "LATE 40HP & UP". From what I've found my engine number appears to be from 8/66 to 7/67. I would consider that an "early" version - but I'm fairly new to this VW group so I thought I would throw this out to you "experienced" guys and see what you say. I would also like a confirmation that the fuel pump cam can be changed "without engine disassembly". Thanks Jack

[VOLKSWAGNUT]

Pretty simple really.... for a 1967 Convertible it would/should be a 1500...not a "40hp"
A 1967 (H0) engine... is not a 40hp... so its considered an "up" engine. .

..
_________________
aka Ken {o\!/o}
Its your vehicle- stop askin' for approval-do what YOU like for cryin' out loud
Better to roll em' how you want and wear em' out-than lettin' em' rot out
Its about the going not the showing
Rebuilt to drive not decorate
WANTED: Local Eatin' Joints, Triple D for TheSamba contributions here http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=570510
Search "VOLKSWAGNUT" on YouTube since you cant watch a "certain" BELT change video round here
Usually and often edited

[JackVW1959]

Yes, seems simple - at least its nice to have a confirmation sent from someone with those magic goggles to help see through the fog.... The 1500 is really 43 HP? Thanks again.

[JackVW1959]

I lost my focus - I forgot to ask the million dollar question. Can the fuel pump cam be replaced without tearing down the engine?

Is the best source for these in the Samba Classifieds or can they be found elsewhere?

Thanks

[johnnypan]

Carter makes a good rotary electronic fuel pump,with filter set up it costs about 50 bucks..It cures what happened to me and you,the check valve flap in the mechanical fuel pump sticks open when it gets warm..

http://www.speedyjim.net/schem/pump.gif

make sure your wire your fuel pump with a safety relay...you want it to shut down if the engine dies..

[VOLKSWAGNUT]

[JackVW1959]

I asked the million dollar question and got the million dollar answer. The links you pointed out gives some great garage mechanic solutions, I like the pencil or dowel rod approach but additional links to Chirco where the actual Dist Gear removal tool and the Gear can be purchased!

Great info. Thanks once again for all the choice information.

Jack

[VOLKSWAGNUT]

DONT DROP OR LOOSE THE THRUST WASHERS>>>> !!!!

I take Paypal...

.
_________________
aka Ken {o\!/o}
Its your vehicle- stop askin' for approval-do what YOU like for cryin' out loud
Better to roll em' how you want and wear em' out-than lettin' em' rot out
Its about the going not the showing
Rebuilt to drive not decorate
WANTED: Local Eatin' Joints, Triple D for TheSamba contributions here http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=570510
Search "VOLKSWAGNUT" on YouTube since you cant watch a "certain" BELT change video round here
Usually and often edited

[langsmer]

Reviving an old thread here. I'm having similar issues as the original question asker, just on a 65 bus. Figured I wouldn't start a new thread in the bus forum as its pretty much the same issue and mechanically applies to bugs and buses. The bus fires up great, runs fine, drives fine, but will suddenly start starving for fuel, though not necessarily at high speed. It happens around town too. Sometimes I can go to work or the grocery store and it doesn't happen. Usually it does after driving a few miles. If it sits for a couple hours it will fire right back up and run fine. The issue arose after driving about 150 miles on the highway. Luckily it happened just a few miles from my ultimate destination. I checked fuel flow, swapped out the fuel pump, tested the pump output pressure, checked the pump rod, replaced the gas cap, swapped out the carb with a spare, and cleaned out the heat riser.

There isn't really much left to check aside from the distributor drive. Is the push rod supposed to go up and down a measurable amount? If the cam on the drive gear is worn out, wouldn't the problem happen as soon as you start the vehicle?

Thanks folks!

[Cusser]

[mukluk]

[thomas.]

https://www.wolfsburgwest.com/cart/DetailsList.cfm?ID=113127303

I was having the same problem a while back . On mine the fuel pump spacer would swell when hot and limit the pump push rod . I got stuck on the interstate once for a few hours until it cooled enough to start. The old one will probably break off but you can knock the old pieces down thru and out the sump.

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=502179&highlight=fuel+pump+flange