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skills@eurocarsplus
Samba Peckerhead
Joined: January 01, 2007
Posts: 16863
Location: sticksville, ct.
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 Posted: Mon Sep 07, 2015 9:23 am Post subject: late bus/T4 transmission carrier bushing question |
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a search has turned up very little on these...
I am looking for the bushings that go on the 72+ buses with the mouse ears on the bell housing.
is it possible to replace these? any vendors?
I have a few T4 powered buses that will be going the Subaru route and want to replace them. homie don't want to do shit twice, so I want to be able to find these bushings.
stupid not to replace them seeing I will be right there....
and yes, shift rod/fuel tank/lines etc will all be getting replaced....
thanks for any leads
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| gprudenciop wrote: |
my reason for switching to subaru is my german car was turning chinese so i said fuck it and went japanese....... |
| Jake Raby wrote: |
| Thanks for the correction. I used to be a nice guy, then I ruined it by exposing myself to the public. |
| Brian wrote: |
| Also the fact that people are agreeing with Skills, it's a turn of events for samba history |
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Wildthings
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 50338
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| Posted: Mon Sep 07, 2015 10:00 am Post subject: |
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| I have seen them listed, maybe Just Campers or somewhere else in Europe. Sorry don't remember. |
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skills@eurocarsplus
Samba Peckerhead
Joined: January 01, 2007
Posts: 16863
Location: sticksville, ct.
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| Posted: Mon Sep 07, 2015 10:16 am Post subject: |
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https://www2.cip1.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=VWC-211-599-431
looks like this is it.
not being a T4 guy, there are the only mounts in that area, correct?
_________________
| gprudenciop wrote: |
my reason for switching to subaru is my german car was turning chinese so i said fuck it and went japanese....... |
| Jake Raby wrote: |
| Thanks for the correction. I used to be a nice guy, then I ruined it by exposing myself to the public. |
| Brian wrote: |
| Also the fact that people are agreeing with Skills, it's a turn of events for samba history |
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tristessa
Samba Member
Joined: April 07, 2004
Posts: 3992
Location: Portland, OR
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| Posted: Mon Sep 07, 2015 11:09 am Post subject: |
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Those are the bushings, and yes it's the only mount in the area.
That said, I entirely deleted that mount in my '75 and had a huge reduction in resonant interior noise at certain engine RPM/gear combinations where it had been *obnoxiously* loud before. But, that's with a VW I-4 engine, not a Subaru flat-4... |
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Wildthings
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 50338
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| Posted: Mon Sep 07, 2015 1:38 pm Post subject: |
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| tristessa wrote: |
Those are the bushings, and yes it's the only mount in the area. |
Okay you guys drove me to go crawl under my old half stripped '74. Yes there is a second set of mount in the same area. The subframe that the before mentioned mounts hang from is attached to a frame cross member with two fairly large mounts. I know there are minor changes in the area over the T4 engine run, but without getting my head under a later van, I would guess that the second set of mounts is there for all years. |
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tristessa
Samba Member
Joined: April 07, 2004
Posts: 3992
Location: Portland, OR
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| Posted: Mon Sep 07, 2015 1:44 pm Post subject: |
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Just to make sure we're all on the same page:
#17 is what I took out of mine, #18 are the bushings. That's the only mount I've ever seen in that area on a post-1971 Bay |
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Wildthings
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 50338
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| Posted: Mon Sep 07, 2015 1:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Part #18 is one of a pair of mounts, the other pair are only partially shown as part #19. I guess the rubber part of the bushing/mount is listed separately elsewhere, odd??? |
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tristessa
Samba Member
Joined: April 07, 2004
Posts: 3992
Location: Portland, OR
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| Posted: Mon Sep 07, 2015 2:24 pm Post subject: |
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| #19 are metal, and I've only ever seen them installed in the transaxle ears .. I think they stay there. #18 is the rubber bushing/mount that isolates #17 from the body. |
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SGKent 
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007
Posts: 41031
Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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| Posted: Mon Sep 07, 2015 2:29 pm Post subject: |
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Skills - yes - there is only one part for all the T4 buses. The originals have a different bolt pitch than the ones you can buy today. If you want to use the same bolts you have to tap them. Or change the bolts. They are reproductions and prices vary greatly for the same thing. If the cad plated ear inserts on the transmission break, Weddle has those.
The originals last a very long time but often when they are cleaned (beading works well) one can see the cracks forming that they are in a process of failing.
211 599 431 ; 211599431 ; 211-599-431
http://www.bughaus.com/motor_mount_-_211599431.htm
https://www.wolfsburgwest.com/cart/DetailsList.cfm?ID=211599431
https://www.busdepot.com/211599431
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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“Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin |
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Wildthings
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 50338
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| Posted: Mon Sep 07, 2015 8:05 pm Post subject: |
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I always thought that there was a bushing in the ears of the tranny. One of the first things I ever did to one of these gear boxes was to press a leaf spring style bushing into the ears for a guy building a buggy and I just always assumed that was pretty much what was in there to start with.  |
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THall
Samba Member
Joined: August 25, 2010
Posts: 324
Location: Verona, WI
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| Posted: Tue Sep 08, 2015 5:59 am Post subject: |
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Yep, replace those suckers if you're in there. I had one fail.
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'78 Westy - 2.0 FI |
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skills@eurocarsplus
Samba Peckerhead
Joined: January 01, 2007
Posts: 16863
Location: sticksville, ct.
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| Posted: Tue Sep 08, 2015 6:15 am Post subject: |
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thanks guys!
yes, it was #18 I was looking for. I couldn't recall any in the ears on the transmission other than the pressed in metal sleeves.
the issue with these swaps is none of this shit has ever been changed...or even when the engine is out these are things that should be addressed swap or not. this drives the price up with all of the general maintenance crap...
thank you for your help
subaruswapinskills
_________________
| gprudenciop wrote: |
my reason for switching to subaru is my german car was turning chinese so i said fuck it and went japanese....... |
| Jake Raby wrote: |
| Thanks for the correction. I used to be a nice guy, then I ruined it by exposing myself to the public. |
| Brian wrote: |
| Also the fact that people are agreeing with Skills, it's a turn of events for samba history |
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Wildthings
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 50338
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| Posted: Tue Sep 08, 2015 6:26 am Post subject: |
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| The mounting system for the engine tranny package is oddly engineered from day one. Having three mounts in a line is going to cause extra stresses on the mounts as the body of the vehicle contorts going over bumps. The early Bays only had two sets of mounts on the engine tranny package as did the Vanagon when it came out, but for some reason the T4 Bays had an extra set of mounts, the results of which are that the mounts are more heavily stressed, not less. |
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tristessa
Samba Member
Joined: April 07, 2004
Posts: 3992
Location: Portland, OR
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| Posted: Tue Sep 08, 2015 7:15 am Post subject: |
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My understanding with the late Bay mount design is that the bellhousing "ears" are the primary mount supporting most of the load, and the engine carrier and transaxle nosecone mounts, while supporting *some* weight, are closer to snubbers keeping everything from moving/shifting too much.
*MY* engine carrier is much more supportive of the engine than the factory T4 design, , because I didn't want to put the weight/torque on the aluminum adapter plate, which could well be a factor in the harmonic resonance I was experiencing before I deleted the bellhousing mount. |
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Wildthings
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 50338
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| Posted: Tue Sep 08, 2015 3:01 pm Post subject: |
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| tristessa wrote: |
| My understanding with the late Bay mount design is that the bellhousing "ears" are the primary mount supporting most of the load, and the engine carrier and transaxle nosecone mounts, while supporting *some* weight, are closer to snubbers keeping everything from moving/shifting too much. |
The problem with having three sets of mount is that the load can go from very high compression to very high tension on any of the mounts as the car twists and bends going over bump or during hard accelerating. It is really hard to calculate such loads, they pretty much have to be determined experimentally, (or today with enough design and load data they could be approximated with a computer). The high alternating loads have much more of a tendency to damage the mounts than would occur if there were only two sets spaced far apart as per the early Bay or the Vanagon where the loads will not vary so excessively. |
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Ives676
Samba Member
Joined: June 20, 2013
Posts: 274
Location: Rogers, AR
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Tcash
Samba Member
Joined: July 20, 2011
Posts: 12844
Location: San Jose, California, USA
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Ives676
Samba Member
Joined: June 20, 2013
Posts: 274
Location: Rogers, AR
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SGKent
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007
Posts: 41031
Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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| Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2016 1:22 pm Post subject: Re: late bus/T4 transmission carrier bushing question |
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that was dropped on later bays - say around 1976 or so. They will not fit the late trans mounts.
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Busstom
Samba Member
Joined: November 23, 2014
Posts: 3842
Location: San Jose, CA
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| Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2017 1:12 pm Post subject: |
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Does anyone know who might sell item #8 in the image below? I've checked BD, WCM, WW, CIP, EMW, AutohausAZ, Weddle. Remarkably, SoCal Imports has a version of it, but I'm hesitant, and I can't believe that none of the "standard" suppliers have it. Item #16 seems to be elusive too (I thought mine had metal clamps (no bushings), I'll have to clean it up when I get home and examine further.
Figured I'd consider replacing it since everything's out, but if SoCal has the only one, I guess I'll just run the original one.
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My name's Steve and it's pronounced "Bust 'em" (cuz people think I'm Tom) 😏 |
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