Kicking off my Buggy Autocross and Hillclimb car build

Grantsjc

I have posted a few questions but will start a build thread here. I picked up a Manx copy on a 1973 Chassis with IRS / ball joint pan. Car was started as an autocross car but not fully developed. It has a 2180 cc motor with dual IDA webers . Has a Rancho transmission with close ratio gear set. It's on 13 inch wheels with race slicks from formula ford. Car sits on dropped spindles and has swaybars. Other than that suspension is realitvely stock balljoimt. Car has a roll bar but needs a cage.

Here are things I'm planning

Suspension: originally was looking at double a arm conversion but I have decided to go with Atomwerks custom developed race suspension and custom steering rack. Fully adjustable rear spring plate and front beam with adjustable sway bars, needle bearings etc.

Brakes: Atomwerks again with custom machined hub with wide 5 bolt pattern, 10.5 sprint car rotors, wilwood calipers, master cylinder to match calipers, proportioning valve.

Transmission: Stick with Rancho but install Peliquin torque basing diff. Would love to do sequential tranny eventually.

Engine: Bump up displacement to around 2400 cc increase compression. Target 200 hp. Just starting research in this area. But want to make motor as lightweight as possible to get weight off rear of the car. Convert to 48 IDFs? Convert to electric cooling and put smaller alternator in place. Locate big battery in front passenger side of car. Not sure on best headers and muffler setup. Want it to be high flow and low noise. Who sells turnkey race headers and exhausts for Type 1 VW ?

Body/aero/Cage : Trim rear to allow quick engine changes, thinking about making cutouts in rear panels and installing fire retardant carbon fiber sheets (rear weight reduction and eases accessibility to tranny rear suspension cables etc. ). Build front splitter and put dual element wing on rear of cage

Building cage that will accommodate my 6'4 height. Needs to have some side impact protection for hillclimbs. I'm thinking of bolt on side protection that can come off for AX. Bolt on cages to VW pans are new to me soloing tons of research.

Wheels and tires. Stick with 13 inch wheels and tires. Uses 5.5 front and 7 inch cantilever slicks in rear. Considering going just a bit wider and losing cantilever slick in favor of a more modern design. Looking at Avon race slicks in soft compounds maybe on 6.5 inch front and 8 inch rear . Looking at a set of aluminum Real Racing wheels.

I drove the car once in local AX a couple weeks ago. No complaints with way it puts power down considering open diff. Obviously ability to get car to turn will be biggest focus. When I drive my Porsche Cayman street car at AX events on A7s I can usually beat the fastest of buggies mostly due these cars not being able to carry speed through turns. I want to change this. I don't want to change motor to mid ship but I do want to do everything I can to move weight from rear to front of the car by lighting rear end. I also want ability to adjust brake bias.

Some of my past AX/Hillclimb cars

1975 lb Boxster (scca FP class)

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

914/6 race car. (Scca XP class)

500 hp 370z ( OSP Hillclimb class )

didget69 · Posted: Mon Sep 07, 2015 5:56 pm Post subject:

Continue to Run the engine you have, as is, to start with and develop a baseline... Get limited slip diff installed & see what times you can run. Aircooled Manx style buggies can be successful auto-X cars without going exotic on suspension. Stay with stock fan cooling.

Build up gradually - test. Modify. Test... Repeat.

bnc
_________________
I never found the need to impress people with any mechanic certifications, trophies or track wins... unless it was for Mom to post on the refrigerator door.

Dale M. · Posted: Mon Sep 07, 2015 8:24 pm Post subject:

How about pic of car... Did it come out of Salinas by chance, there is about 7 Auto-X cars based there.... Also get in touch with Dennis Hale in Ben Lomand (I think).... He was and maybe still is driving force behind UFO Auto X on Monterey bay....

Not quite sure on ATOMWERKS suspension, all his arguments never quite convinced me he got it right....

Dale
_________________
“Fear The Government That Wants To Take Your Guns" - Thomas Jefferson.

"Kellison Sand Piper Roadster" For Street & Show.
"Joe Pody Sandrover" Buggy with 2180 for Autocross (Sold)
============================================================
All suggestions and advice are purely my own opinion. You are free to ignore them if you wish ...

VWCOOL · Posted: Mon Sep 07, 2015 8:43 pm Post subject:

That's a nice fleet of past fast blasters!

For now, maybe save some cash on the suspension... you can do a LOT with the BJ front end with a bit of brainpower BUT yes I'll admit it does flex a bit which stands the wheel upright mid-corner

Can you cage the car to the front beam? Under the buggy body? Beetle bodies are quite stiff... Beetle chassis are not, so it may need some help there...

I have never seen the sense in the 'hi-po' front suspensions for VW chassis, their school-kid-sketch geo is less sophisticated/tunable than a BJ system...

My next tarmac rally/hill-climb car will be a Super

BL3Manx · Last edited by BL3Manx on Mon Sep 07, 2015 9:03 pm; edited 1 time in total

VWCOOL

didget69 · Last edited by didget69 on Mon Sep 07, 2015 9:20 pm; edited 1 time in total

BL3Manx · Posted: Mon Sep 07, 2015 9:18 pm Post subject:

I have no doubt VWCool has more first hand VW performance knowledge than I do. However, I'm just as sure Jake Raby has even more. Raby has done the research using precision test and measurement equipment and shared the data. He's concluded and demonstrated the Type 4 is a better engine

http://www.aircooledtechnology.com/index.php/video-gallery

http://www.aircooledtechnology.com/index.php/cylinder-heads

http://type4store.com/engine-kits.html?p=2

http://scatvw.com/master/cyl_heads/split_port.shtml

http://scatvw.com/master/type_iv/

http://www.riechertmotorentechnik.de/en/engineT4.htm

http://www.csp-shop.com/cgi-bin/cshop2/front/shop_...0&all=

VWCOOL · Posted: Tue Sep 08, 2015 5:56 am Post subject:

well, if you want to make it a 'personality' contest rather than a discussion about the actual architecture and parts availability, my engine builder has been building Type Is and IVs longer than Jake. (Not taking anything from Jake)

But

Over to you...

So ner-ner... lol

BL3Manx · Posted: Tue Sep 08, 2015 7:32 am Post subject:

Well you got me, I'm pretty sure Jake was born without any personality, he's pure science and numbers

Jake Raby · Posted: Tue Sep 08, 2015 9:43 am Post subject:

didget69 · Posted: Tue Sep 08, 2015 12:45 pm Post subject:

didget69 · Posted: Tue Sep 08, 2015 12:50 pm Post subject:

BL3Manx · Posted: Tue Sep 08, 2015 2:01 pm Post subject:

I would never underestimate the automotive performance engineering capability in Australia and New Zealand; Phil Irving, Burt Munro, John Britten, they're legends.

If I could build an airplane around any aircraft engine today it would be a Rotec Radial

http://www.rotecengines.com/

The "1936" V8 Indian this New Zealander just scratch built is beyond amazing

https://www.facebook.com/v8indian

Grantsjc · Posted: Tue Sep 08, 2015 10:33 pm Post subject:

I have 35 years and 5 914s under my belt. I know t4 motors and associated headaches fairly well. Probably reason I chose to go with a 6 cylinder in my last 914. I'd rather build and blow a couple cheap t1s than build a very expensive t4. I know Jake pretty well from my 914 days. I appreciate what he does. But I'd rather go for cheap high output t1 power. So much easier to build and rebuild when things go wrong.

I know a ball joint front end can work ok but I want to incorporate more adjustments and atomwerks is developing suspension, brakes and steering as one package . Oem ball joint suspension has some real limitations especially on a car using race slicks.

Dale think you know me and the car is well known locally.

. I almost bought your car but wasn't good timing for me. I Hillclimb with Greg and crew . Unfortunately Dennis and UFo closed shop a couple years ago. We run with American Ax, Scca and PCA now.

Grantsjc · Posted: Tue Sep 08, 2015 10:47 pm Post subject:

Buggy in dire need on a real roll cage. I went to small local event and didn't push too hard due to lack of rollover protection. Have a good baseline on handling and what I'd like to improve

VWCOOL · Posted: Wed Sep 09, 2015 4:08 am Post subject:

Great pics!

Build a Type 1-based engine right and it won't blow up Smile

yeah I agree with the limitations of a BJ suspension... I mentioned one or two earlier. But there is more scope for improvement than many people realise when you begin playig around with caster and SAI and yadda yadda. I regularly/routinely carry an inside front wheel off the ground when cornering which I think demonstrates a reasonable level of grip on a semi-slick 195 tyre

Has anyone built a bespoke front end with some decent geo? None of the stuff I've seen is any more sophisticated than a chrome 'n' cubes hot rod.

It'd be nice to see something with a tall spindle and zero or neg-offset steering (which is why I like Super front ends)

One of my best mates rolled a Manx-style buggy in a hillclimb about a decade ago. He had a 'showy' hoop (not a roll cage) and his helmet contacted the ground while the car was in the air, inverted, It is a scary pic... Although technically not injured, the incident affected his balance. If it was dark, he couldn't stand up without stumbling

Dale M. · Posted: Wed Sep 09, 2015 5:41 am Post subject:

Dale M. · Posted: Wed Sep 09, 2015 5:44 am Post subject:

Grantsjc · Posted: Wed Sep 09, 2015 11:59 am Post subject:


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Kicking off my Buggy Autocross and Hillclimb car build
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