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LAGrunthaner
Samba Member
Joined: March 18, 2007
Posts: 5509
Location: 1st Coast
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 Posted: Sat Oct 03, 2015 6:46 am Post subject: |
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Wow you are ambitious, keep it up, I'll be following. The bus was an excellent choice to remember the good time you had with your dad on your old camper. If it wasn't mentioned get a can or 2 of PB Blaster and spray the frozen parts once every day until they move. I learned that from here and it does work. If not you can use heat from a torch but try the spray first for several days. Then while you are cutting and welding the PB Blaster will be working for you.
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| Lind wrote: |
| Have you considered simply starting with a nicer bus? I don't know what your skills are, but the race is easier if you can see the finish line. If you are not a runner, don't start off doing a marathon. |
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Enkiel
Samba Member
Joined: October 21, 2004
Posts: 2771
Location: Quebec, Canada
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| Posted: Sat Oct 03, 2015 9:13 am Post subject: |
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| 69vwcarl wrote: |
 ............. looks like someone forgot the inner rocker..There are a ton of tips about body work if you just look around on the internet or on here enough. Go through some of the build threads on here and you will realize there is a true art to good bodywork and our Vw hobby has some amazing talent. Im no master but i think You need to get yourself a sheet metal gauge use the same gauge metal as the area you are trying to repair. You also need to take the time to trim the panels so that fitment is as close to perfect as you can get it. If you can avoid having a huge gap on one end and a over lap or a super small gap on the other you can have a lot cleaner work. Using a method of tack welding every so many inches over and over jumping around will help keep the heat down. Also remember you can heat and warp a panel from grinding also... I would get Gas for the welder ASAP and drop down to .023 or so wire it will cut down on your clean up. long road ahead but stay with it man. |
Thanks. Most of those tips already been recommended to me. I'm redoing the patch on the battery tray for that reason.
i'd LOVE to move to gas, but i can't find the required equipment to plug into my welder.
| brettsvw wrote: |
| I have been following your thread, The only way is to jump right in like you have been doing. Welding gets easier as you go, and anything can be repaired again. Just keep the momentum going. |
My though exactly, especially on the window post. I know its not pretty, and its far from perfect, but its metal again, and if i ever feel like replacing the whole thing, or have someone do it, it can be done. Nothing i'm doing is irreversal. I guess once the OG paint will be mostly gone, it will be time for a true restoration. But that's not for a near future.
| LAGrunthaner wrote: |
| Wow you are ambitious, keep it up, I'll be following. The bus was an excellent choice to remember the good time you had with your dad on your old camper. If it wasn't mentioned get a can or 2 of PB Blaster and spray the frozen parts once every day until they move. I learned that from here and it does work. If not you can use heat from a torch but try the spray first for several days. Then while you are cutting and welding the PB Blaster will be working for you. |
I started working on the mirror arm this way. I added PB blaster every days or so for a week. Nothing's moving. I'm not sure if it will ever or if i should just drill it out. I guess i'll keep trying, especially since its not really causing me any problem right now.
In the end, thanks alot for the good word guys. |
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BarryL 
Samba Member
Joined: November 01, 2004
Posts: 14271
Location: Casa de Oro, California
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| Posted: Sat Oct 03, 2015 9:33 am Post subject: |
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| Is that giant perimeter weld on the rear quarter a replacement patch or did someone remove it to do deeper work then replace it that way for access? |
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Enkiel
Samba Member
Joined: October 21, 2004
Posts: 2771
Location: Quebec, Canada
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| Posted: Sat Oct 03, 2015 10:39 am Post subject: |
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| BarryL wrote: |
| Is that giant perimeter weld on the rear quarter a replacement patch or did someone remove it to do deeper work then replace it that way for access? |
it was replaced. Basically they removed the rear panel on passenger side and replaced it with another piece of a turkis bus. |
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Enkiel
Samba Member
Joined: October 21, 2004
Posts: 2771
Location: Quebec, Canada
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| Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2015 6:30 pm Post subject: |
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Tonight i decided to start working on the next thing in the list ; the long rocker...
First, i have to sat, i wasn't expecting such a huge gap. I had to hammer it a little to get less than 1/4" gap in some places...
what i started with ;
I learned two things while doing this ;
1- taking your time really helps lowering heat problems.
2- welding closer seems to do a much better job. I usually left 1/2-3/4" wire, and it felt like the electricity wasn't always strong enough for a solid weld. with 1/4", it is much, much better.
After a few rounds (notice no burnt paint, which imho means i did a much better job with the heat);
A few rounds later, the first clean up ;
And how it is right now. I think i need to spend at least another 2 hour welding it shut correctly, but i could leave it that way and i'd be happy enough about it. Again, this is never gonna be a show car...
A question ; do you guys know how to know which RGB is a big nut and which is a small nut? |
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mandraks
Samba Member
Joined: November 28, 2004
Posts: 7050
Location: Lawrenceville, Ga
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| Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2015 7:27 pm Post subject: |
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big nut is 46mm small nut is 36mm
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Uli
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'53 3-Fold Oval, L35 Metallic Blue, looking for a narrow hatch panel |
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Enkiel
Samba Member
Joined: October 21, 2004
Posts: 2771
Location: Quebec, Canada
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| Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2015 7:38 pm Post subject: |
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Tonight was kind of a big night. I managed to "finish" the rocker, and started on the rear corner. I have the feeling people won't like it, but its the best way i figured to repair it while keeping as much OG metal as possible...
First the rocker. I didn't fill the gap where new overlay the old, because i simply can't; i'd burn through the whole damn pannel if i even though about doing it.
Next is the corner. Again, this will never be a show car. I want it to be solid, and i think i found the best way to manage to close the gap. (and i got to try my new toys!)
maybe 60% closed.
Cleaned up.
It's not gonna be for everyone, but i think for a rookie, its not so bad! I will probably clean it up a little more once everything is closed, but for tonight, that's it!
Hopefully tomorrow i finish this, so i can start on the other corner. then the fun begin with new cargo floors! |
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Enkiel
Samba Member
Joined: October 21, 2004
Posts: 2771
Location: Quebec, Canada
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| Posted: Fri Oct 09, 2015 2:25 pm Post subject: |
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Today was another good day. First, i received my order from concept1. Pretty happy with the fast turn out. If they could just restock on Klassic Fab, it'd be my favourite merchant ever.
First i got my complete floor. The stamping is amazing.
Next ;
Mirror for both side, wiring Harness, 2 rear outrigger and rear jack point, and i went cheap a bit, and got the battery tray from autocraft.
Once the present were unboxed, i decided to finally put a mirror on those damn mirror arm and stop risking my life everytime i run around the bus.
Sadly i got my first fail of the day ; the stuck arm finally snapped in my hands... I was expecting it to happen sooner or later anyway. Now i need to figure out if i can remove the pin from inside the hinge, since it is welded to the post, and i'd rather not start working on replacing the whole pillar just yet... Think drilling it out is possible?
Next up ; i finished the rear corner. I'm pretty happy about it. Its very patchy, but it look solid, and its all metal, which is what i was aiming for. Eventually, it will be completely replaced anyway.
And sometimes, its the little thing that makes you happy... like finally installing the missing bolt on the tranny, so its not tilted on the side anymore. It's not much, but every small thing makes me closer to have it on the road (even if its still very far away)
Before closing for the day, i decided to take my fuel door, and go to napa to get the color in spray. Can't wait to see if they'll nail it or not... i think its pretty much mission impossible, since the bus has at the very least 3 different turquoise color right now.
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Enkiel
Samba Member
Joined: October 21, 2004
Posts: 2771
Location: Quebec, Canada
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| Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2015 6:18 am Post subject: |
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Slowly but surely, i'm starting to cut out the rust, and replace it with solid metal.
a new hole was created. I think i'm getting a bit better with the grinder, i can manage to cut in places i though i wasnt capable of...
So i did this ;
the damage metal. I think i could of cut a bit closer to the rust, but i didnt want to try and weld it to thin/crusty metal.
The part i used to replace. Sadly, it wasn't long enough, but it will work. I still think i'm getting better (or i hope i am)
And the curve. Works amazingly well... i think i could do the spare wheel well.
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Enkiel
Samba Member
Joined: October 21, 2004
Posts: 2771
Location: Quebec, Canada
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| Posted: Fri Oct 16, 2015 6:17 pm Post subject: |
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Tonight i nearly finished the corner. Nearly because i'm not quite sure what to do to close it properly all around. Open to ideas.
I won't call my welding perfect, but i think i'm getting the hang of it, from time to time....
From the other side
from inside
And i tacked the lower part to the battery tray. Didn't want to remove it to straigten it, so its really the best i could do. That complete lower corner needs to be removed to be replaced correctly eventually anyway.
Lastly, i had a look inside my fuel tank, and found something gooey inside....
The interior definately need professionnal work and... is that little tube supposed to look filled with crap like that??? I'm wondering if its worth saving the tank or if i should get a new one.
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1964 Turkis Flipseat |
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BarryL
Samba Member
Joined: November 01, 2004
Posts: 14271
Location: Casa de Oro, California
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| Posted: Fri Oct 16, 2015 7:02 pm Post subject: |
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| That tank is not even that bad. It would probably whish away with Berryman's. |
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Eric&Barb
Samba Member
Joined: September 19, 2004
Posts: 24764
Location: Olympia Wash Rinse & Repeat
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| Posted: Sat Oct 17, 2015 9:55 am Post subject: |
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Definitely patch panels not in little sections like your first try.
Drilling out the old hinge pin might work, but more likely you will screw it up since it sounds like you have not done it before. Get a good penetrating oil and apply every day for weeks or even months till the remains loosen up and tap out easily. BE PATIENT do not hammer on it hard or or live with the next level of "how much more can I screw this up".
When putting in multiple panels you need to use a welding primer on at least the edges where they meet or just have rust come pouring out of those all too soon.
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Who.Me?
Samba Member
Joined: July 14, 2014
Posts: 2211
Location: UK (South)
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| Posted: Sat Oct 17, 2015 2:22 pm Post subject: |
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| enkiel wrote: |
| i decided to finally put a mirror on those damn mirror arm and stop risking my life everytime i run around the bus. |
Tennis balls are good for that...
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Looking for info on my truck's history. Are you from Campbell California or nearby. Do you recognise it? ... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=636786 |
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Enkiel
Samba Member
Joined: October 21, 2004
Posts: 2771
Location: Quebec, Canada
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| Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2015 10:53 am Post subject: |
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| Eric&Barb wrote: |
| Definitely patch panels not in little sections like your first try. |
Acutally that was my second try. I doubt i could have managed to connect a big panel to all the recess there was (the bottom is pretty much smashed/rusted/in needs of replacement. I will DEFINATELY never do that again. Was alot of work, and obviously isnt too pretty
| Quote: |
| Drilling out the old hinge pin might work, but more likely you will screw it up since it sounds like you have not done it before. Get a good penetrating oil and apply every day for weeks or even months till the remains loosen up and tap out easily. BE PATIENT do not hammer on it hard or or live with the next level of "how much more can I screw this up". |
I did it twice actually with the engine lid. But it was far from perfect, and i doubt i did it correctly. I used PB Blaster for easily 2 weeks (thinking 3, but playing safe). Sadly, i tried moved it by hand every day, but i guess i created too much stress on the rusted arm and it broke....
| Quote: |
| When putting in multiple panels you need to use a welding primer on at least the edges where they meet or just have rust come pouring out of those all too soon. |
I completely forgot about it. Is painting over the welded stuff enough? I mean, where does the rust come from? the porous weld? the metal around it? if its the metal around it, won't primer/paint fix it?
Once the cargo is removed and some repair has been done (but before doing the electrical), i'd really like to sandblast the undercarriage, wheel well and engine bay, and primer/paint it.
| Who.Me? wrote: |
| enkiel wrote: |
| i decided to finally put a mirror on those damn mirror arm and stop risking my life everytime i run around the bus. |
Tennis balls are good for that... |
damnit, didnt think of that! Sure sound better... good news is that my girls stayed away enough to avoid all injuries (the bus is actually a no-play zone right now).
And now, a little rant. or more a wall of text. Everyone is free to read or just avoid it like plague, especially for grammar nazi, since i'm french and all....
Progress been awefully slow the past 2-3 weeks. I could blame on family's obligation, constant lack of sleep, lack of motivation, but i think my main issue is that i just don't know how to do something, and it slows my progress to a crawl.
My driver side rear corner is what i'd call complete. It's not pretty, but its solid, for the most part. The battery tray on the other hand isnt quite connected 100% with the corner, leaving gap here and there that i have no clue how to close, and just like with anything else, when i have no clue how to do something, i lose interest in doing it.
I do have a few ideas, but none really seems good.
Seam sealer? kinda like bondo-ing instead of fixing right.
Welding? Not sure how i could close it correctly.
Starting over? I'd rather not. its a learning process, so i want to avoid as much as possible starting over for now.
Patching? why not. Actually, you know, its while writing this that i had this idea. It wouldn't be pretty but it sure as hell could work! I really just need one patch 1"x4", which is in round corner just after the light ; that's where the curve from the corner didnt fit at all with the tray's curve. I'll have to take a look and see if its doable.
Then i start thinking about all that i have left to do. So much thing for a bus that was supposedly solid ;
- Rear corner (the other one!)
- Battery Tray (the other one ; i do hope these two will be done better the second time !)
- Gas tank (need to figure out what i want to do with it)
- the metal above the engine
- the rear wheel well front repair
- the cargo floor
- the outrigger+jackpoint
- the patchwork all around the cargo floor
- the front wheel well rear repair
Once all that bodywork is done? more work!
- the electrical
- all the cable
- the brakes
- the fuel line + Engine
- the transmission (not even sure about that one. One side have a small nut RGB without any brake hardware...)
Looking at that list, its a bit frightening. There isnt really any point that i don't think i can do (even the electrical sound challenging, but doable), but its so much work! I gave myself until end of summer of 2017, but deep inside, i really wish i could complete it before next summer, so i can take it for a drive with my daughters. I'm pretty sure its impossible, unless some of the stuff goes wayyyy faster than expected (for example, i'm expecting to take roughly 20 hours to remove the cargo floor, and 40 more to replace it).
I think i need a solid plan to stay motivated. For example, i worked alot on the corner, i think i need to work on something else for a little while. Maybe its a good time to start on the cargo floor? I know i have ALOT of work to do on those before i can even consider installing the new one (wiring, outrigger, repair around it, paint), but it could be a nice change of pace for awhile.
Simply writing this almost gives me motivation. I think i will actually make a patch to cover the hole (while painting what is in the hole before starting). Then i will move on to the cargo floor and see what i can do. Checking with Wolfsburg west, there's 2 week wait for the upright, so i have enough time to fix some odd parts before getting the remaining metal i need. Maybe, just maybe, once the cargo floor is installed, and the electrical is working, the remaining won't be so scary (tranmission comes to mind).
I have to give it to glideking, it's amazing he got so far before losing interest. I know there's alot more amateur restorer (like mustie1) that did amazing job without loosing interest. I did a baby step, and i'm already losing hope from time to time.
Tonight, i'm moving forward. Tonight, i'm doing something meaningful with the bus.
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1964 Turkis Flipseat |
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Erik G
Samba Member
Joined: October 16, 2002
Posts: 13281
Location: Tejas!
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| Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2015 11:39 am Post subject: |
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PB Blaster sucks compared to some of the better stuff now available
I like Kroil and the new one that seafoam makes, deep creep. tons better than PB Blaster. Others say acetone ATF mix
It also helps to have a friend move the door around while tapping on the broken mirror arm. Been there done that
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Enkiel
Samba Member
Joined: October 21, 2004
Posts: 2771
Location: Quebec, Canada
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| Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2015 11:55 am Post subject: |
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| Erik G wrote: |
PB Blaster sucks compared to some of the better stuff now available
I like Kroil and the new one that seafoam makes, deep creep. tons better than PB Blaster. Others say acetone ATF mix
It also helps to have a friend move the door around while tapping on the broken mirror arm. Been there done that |
found deep creep. i'll start using it over the weekend.
should it be used many days in a row before any attempt at moving something? My flipseat mechanism is stuck big time (and i didnt stress it too much in fear of breaking it).
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1964 Turkis Flipseat |
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Erik G
Samba Member
Joined: October 16, 2002
Posts: 13281
Location: Tejas!
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Enkiel
Samba Member
Joined: October 21, 2004
Posts: 2771
Location: Quebec, Canada
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| Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2015 6:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Erik G wrote: |
| I would hit it with the deep creep and give it an hour or so, see if it starts to move, and re-apply as necessary. I agree, a couple days is certainly better than broken flipseat |
i'll give it a try, thanks!
Tonight, some progress! Had a solid 2 hours after the daughters were put to bed to work on the bus. The first thing i wanted to do was try and fix that damn corner. I think i did an ok job.
First thing i did was "spot weld" a few more spot to close the gap between the wheel well and the tray. I now have a much, much smaller space between the two folded part.
I cleaned up the weld a bit more inside. It's pretty much as pretty as it'll get.
Another tight space that needed work, the tray itself. I decide to weld a small patch, and i'm pretty happy with the result. It's not perfect because i couldnt see a damn (damn spare tire tray always in the way), but its at least better than it was.
Last but not least, i started removing the cargo floor. I think i need to find a tutorial on how to remove the part welded to the cross members, because i have no clue. With only 3/4 of the way done, already went through one cutting wheel... gonna be fuuun...
The good news is while cutting, i realized i was much better removing the repaired part too, since the cross member was cut or completely rusted before they replaced the floor... and left it that way.
So this is it for tonight. For the rest of the week i'll most likely focus on removing the rest of the cargo floor so i can see what else need replacing.
Edit : i also made a small video to show around the bus. I think it show how the bus is better than picture ; https://youtu.be/9pObEFIBrkU
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Eric&Barb
Samba Member
Joined: September 19, 2004
Posts: 24764
Location: Olympia Wash Rinse & Repeat
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| Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2015 8:27 am Post subject: |
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| enkiel wrote: |
I completely forgot about it. Is painting over the welded stuff enough? I mean, where does the rust come from? the porous weld? the metal around it? if its the metal around it, won't primer/paint fix it? |
When ever you have to pieces of metal bent or over lapped (like the non-battery tray) and then spot welded together making a seam, there is a slight gap between the two pieces. Nature hates a vacuum and with two pieces of metal so close together causes a capillary action. You can put two pieces of sheet metal into a bucket of water and the water will climb up the sheet metal parts.
Problem is with spray on paint the chance of that soaking into the gap between the two pieces of metal thoroughly is low. About the only way to make it work after welded together is to pour thinned primer and then thinned paint into the crack to soak in. Even then this can leave areas that the water will work into and rust will come out of.
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Last edited by Eric&Barb on Wed Oct 21, 2015 8:48 am; edited 1 time in total |
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crofty
Judas of the North
Joined: August 09, 2000
Posts: 19672
Location: Land of Whine and Phonies
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| Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2015 8:39 am Post subject: |
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Just remember the factory used seam sealer as well. on the back of the cargo floor as it meets the deck above the engine and in the battery tray corners.
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| HamburgerBrad wrote: |
I slept on crofty's tent once. I passed out drunk from two bottles of Everett's brother's wine. |
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