Persistent smell of gas post-fillup: expansion tank?

Paulbeard

PO of my 87 said he had the tank re-sealed and I had no reason to doubt that: there were no issue with gas vapors the first 2-3 months but now I am getting some. On the most recent fillup, I still smell gas 24+ hours later, on the passenger (filler) side. No visible leaks, no overfilling (that wouldn't last long anyway), so I am thinking the expansion tanks (likely never touched since assembly in Hamburg) or the charcoal venting system. It does seem pretty much right around the filler/expansion tank (in the wheel well).

I may try to lower the volume of the tank, take a drive of some distance, and see if that changes things. If the smell goes away, I think that points to the expansion tank system, reasoning that by lowering the volume, I reduce reliance on the expansion tank and take it out of the loop. Might just be the gasket on the gas filler cap…?

Does that seem like a reasonable way to proceed? Not stoked about dropping the tank and all the attendant bits, even if I convince myself it's necessary: I may have an expert handle that for my own peace of mind. But there seem to be good visual tutorials here, maybe it's within my reach.
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Currently -> Frida: 87 Tizian Red (mostly) Vanagon GL Westfalia w/ 2.0L ABA conversion
Formerly -> Steward of a 73 Super Beetle (Beater) and 67 Beetle 1300 (Little Max) both names by POs

dhaavers · Posted: Mon Sep 21, 2015 6:14 pm Post subject:

Check the lines to the exp. tanks...if original braided, you may see or feel them
getting wet with a full tank. Fairly reasonable to replace the lines & grommets
without dropping the tank, and might take care of your problem...for now... Wink

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86 White Wolfsburg Westy Weekender
"The WonderVan"
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Paulbeard · Posted: Mon Sep 21, 2015 7:13 pm Post subject:

For now, dhaavers? Shocked

I didn't see any wetness but I'll look a little more closely at them.
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Currently -> Frida: 87 Tizian Red (mostly) Vanagon GL Westfalia w/ 2.0L ABA conversion
Formerly -> Steward of a 73 Super Beetle (Beater) and 67 Beetle 1300 (Little Max) both names by POs

dhaavers · Posted: Mon Sep 21, 2015 7:18 pm Post subject:

Paulbeard · Posted: Mon Sep 21, 2015 7:24 pm Post subject:

Jamo7

I'm close to embracing the Vanagon way myself...
So I can see the old fuel lines getting wet where they connect to the expansion tanks when I fill 'er up. I see (currently) no other leaks from the gas tank. My question is, can I just buy appropriate fuel line from my FLAPS or do I need to buy the crossover pipe kit with the plastic or metal ends:
http://www.van-cafe.com/home/van_1408257065478/smartlist_292/fuel-tank-crossover-pipe
I am having a hard time interpreting how the tank is set up from the Bentley diagrams.
If I can reach in and change the expansion tank lines without dropping the tank, then I may be able to take care of this sooner rather than later.
Thanks!
James
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'84 Westy 2.1 wbx

dhaavers · Posted: Tue Sep 22, 2015 4:06 am Post subject:

3/16" FLAPS fuel line worked for me. The vent lines are a separate entity from
the crossover tube. Vent lines don't require dropping the tank (although access
to the driver's side IS tight). The crossover tube definitely requires a drop... Rolling Eyes

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86 White Wolfsburg Westy Weekender
"The WonderVan"
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wesitarz · Posted: Tue Sep 22, 2015 5:09 am Post subject:

Any leaks on the filler neck?

Jamo7 · Posted: Tue Sep 22, 2015 8:17 am Post subject: Filler neck

No leaks at filler neck. Its a bit rusty- it looks like surface rust, but I'm afraid to scrape too deeply... I'd like to leave it for now. There will be an occasion to drop the tank in the future I'm sure.
What about hose clamps on the new hose? Is that a going the extra mile sort of thing, or should I just depend on a pressure fit like it is now?
Thanks so much for the feedback!
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'84 Westy 2.1 wbx

Paulbeard · Posted: Tue Sep 22, 2015 4:20 pm Post subject:

The sudden chill in the air (down to 46° this AM) and the lack of fumes makes me think I might be on the right track, that the expansion tank is part of this. Might be worth laying in some fuel line for this.
_________________
Currently -> Frida: 87 Tizian Red (mostly) Vanagon GL Westfalia w/ 2.0L ABA conversion
Formerly -> Steward of a 73 Super Beetle (Beater) and 67 Beetle 1300 (Little Max) both names by POs

danfromsyr · Posted: Tue Sep 22, 2015 4:43 pm Post subject:

drop the expansion tanks and check the vent grommet on the top incl the lines
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kamzcab86 · Posted: Tue Sep 22, 2015 4:46 pm Post subject:

Smelled fumes after every fill-up, which dissipated after about 50 miles... until a few months ago, when I smelled gas fumes the entire 120 mile trek home and then smelled fuel fumes every time I entered the garage (bad!). Removed the expansion tanks, along with their OEM rock-hard rubber lines to find:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Resealed the fuel tank, new grommets on the expansion tanks, unstuck one internally stuck rollover valve, new hoses, and no more gas smell. It is a PITA to get at the expansion lines at the fuel tank end, at least on my '90 it was; far easier to install (and remove, for that matter) them with the tank dropped and feed the lines out to the expansion tanks.
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Paulbeard · Posted: Tue Sep 22, 2015 5:03 pm Post subject:

I just went out to put the sniff test to it and the smell was v-e-e-e-r-y faint but present. No sign of wetness but there's a lot I can't see without getting right under it.

Looks like this is on the to-do list.
_________________
Currently -> Frida: 87 Tizian Red (mostly) Vanagon GL Westfalia w/ 2.0L ABA conversion
Formerly -> Steward of a 73 Super Beetle (Beater) and 67 Beetle 1300 (Little Max) both names by POs

levi · Posted: Tue Sep 22, 2015 6:50 pm Post subject:

Just one or two words of wisdom for you guys exploring around those 2 tanks for the first time...

The plastic nipples on these tanks... they're old and brittle now. Be really careful how you handle them lest you want to have em snap off in your fingers like a ginger bread cookie (mmmmm ginger bread cookies)

Also, to the best of my limited recollection, vw rolled these off the floor without any type of clamp on those lines, there is no pressure after all.
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blackglasspirate · Samba Member Joined: June 24, 2006 Posts: 1612

Anyone know if it's possible to get those expansion tank grommets locally or if you've gotta order from a vendor?
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Jamo7

This should show how slowly I chip away at van jobs...
I finally put in new fuel lines from the main gas tank to the expansion tanks. There were Oetiker clamps on the old degrading braided lines. I clipped most of the clamps with bolt cutters. Since I did this job without dropping the tank, I had to pick and pry open the clamps closest to the main gas tank- not easy. I gained a little more access by removing the front wheels. The new hose segments are on without clamps and I now have no leaks or odor at fill up!
James
_________________
'84 Westy 2.1 wbx

dhaavers

There ya go - good work!

Yeah...some jobs take a year of thinking and a day of working (ask me how I know)...

Wink

- Dave
_________________
86 White Wolfsburg Westy Weekender
"The WonderVan"
<EDITED TO PROTECT INNOCENT PIXELS>

bluebus86 · Banned Joined: September 02, 2010 Posts: 11075

i hope you used the new fangled lined hose such as sae 30r9 i also recommend use of hose clamps. lesser hose will rot out with todays government mandated oxygenated fuel..
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Wildthings · Samba Member Joined: March 13, 2005 Posts: 50352

Zeitgeist 13

When I pulled the big tank in preparations for my TDI swap, I found that both the little expansion tank rollover valve grommets were completely disintegrated. This apparently was the source of fuel vapor smells upon filling up over the previous dozen years. I had always assumed it was the crossover tube, but that turned out to be just fine. I needlessly procrastinated fixing the issue due to a reluctance to deal with the hassle of dropping the tank. Anyone smelling vapors should definitely check those little tanks first.
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