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Danwvw
Samba Member
Joined: July 31, 2012
Posts: 8892
Location: Oregon Coast
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 Posted: Thu Sep 24, 2015 11:36 am Post subject: Zero Cost 1641cc Engine |
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I've got the old P&C's from my buses 1641cc engine I did in 2002. Have about 27500 miles on the p&c's and the bus was not needing oil between oil changes. I don't think I want them on this engine as I want this engine to be new but I'm thinking of building a Zero Cost DP 1641cc Bug engine to use as temperory engine as I may find a good deal on a 56,57, 66 or 67 beetle that needed an engine in order to drive it home. Would they need new rings?
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1960 Beetle And 1679cc DP W-100 & Dual Zeniths! |
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Danwvw
Samba Member
Joined: July 31, 2012
Posts: 8892
Location: Oregon Coast
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| Posted: Fri Feb 12, 2016 1:22 pm Post subject: |
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| morymob wrote: |
| With my 70, after i rebuild the eng (87's ialready had) i played with it. Found with latest single port heads u get a bettrr low end, not much diff on top with stock carb with either dp or single heads, finally ended with sp & 2bbl carb as i did a lot of hwy trips, carbs will be biggest top end boost, as usual no warranty offered at this time. |
I like the single port engines in the 68-70 busses. They are nicer on take off when there right.
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1960 Beetle And 1679cc DP W-100 & Dual Zeniths! |
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Danwvw
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Joined: July 31, 2012
Posts: 8892
Location: Oregon Coast
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| Posted: Fri Feb 12, 2016 1:28 pm Post subject: Re: Building a Stock ish Type 1 engine for the 1971 VW Bus? |
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This project is active again. I just bought a CB Performance 1105 69mm VW Crankshaft. I am taking it to the machine shop next week to get a thrust main bearing cut to fit the case and to have a flywheel drilled, surfaced and balanced to it. Now the only big expense for this engine is going to be Cylinders and Heads. I think I will go with the 88mm again.
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Alan Brase
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Joined: March 28, 2004
Posts: 4532
Location: Cedar Falls, Iowa
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| Posted: Sun Feb 14, 2016 6:58 pm Post subject: Re: Building a Stock ish Type 1 engine for the 1971 VW Bus? |
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My first bus was a 1970 I literally rescued out of a junkyard for $150. Delivered.
I recognized it as formerly owned by a guy I knew (2nd owner) and he gave me a key and owner's manual. He said it wouldn't start during extreme cold so they decided to sell it to the junkyard. (got about $30 for it in 1982!)
A battery, a few electrical repairs, and an Alabama title and I was on the road to my lifelong hobby. This motor was sweet and would pull near 70mph day and night.
One day a guy stopped me and told me he bought it new. 3 engines broke the cases. Dealer put in 2 at great expense. This 4th engine was a Mexican case built by the local old guy VW guru. This 4th engine had made 4 trips to Alaska before he sold it to owner #2.
I drove it a couple more years, parted it out when I got my double cab in 1986. The engine had NPR slip in 87's, so it was a 1641. They had about 100k miles on them. My brother reringed them and put in another motor. They might possibly still be running around Omaha some place.
Lesson here: A stock 1968-70 single port motor with 87's or possibly machine in 88's will give a few more smiles per gallon and very little down side compromises. Very possibly a bit more carburetor would make a big improvement as well.
The only other thing I would contemplate would be a copy of a late Mexican beetle engine with hydraulics and Mexican FI.
But that would cost 5 times as much.
Al
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Al Brase
Projects: 67 sunroof bug, 67 Porsche 912 Targa, 70 Westy
Dec 1955 Single Cab pickup WANT 15" BUS RIMS dated 8/55, thru 12/55
To New owners: 1969 doublecab, 1971 Dormobile
Vanagons:
80 P27 Westy JUL 1979, 3rd oldest known US
83 1.6TD Vanagon, 87 Wolfie Westy daily driver, swap meet home |
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Danwvw
Samba Member
Joined: July 31, 2012
Posts: 8892
Location: Oregon Coast
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| Posted: Sat Mar 05, 2016 4:35 pm Post subject: Re: Building a Stock ish Type 1 engine for the 1971 VW Bus? |
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| 69doublecab wrote: |
I got my double cab in 1986. The engine had NPR slip in 87's, so it was a 1641. They had about 100k miles on them. My brother reringed them and put in another motor. They might possibly still be running around Omaha some place.
Lesson here: A stock 1968-70 single port motor with 87's or possibly machine in 88's will give a few more smiles per gallon and very little down side compromises. Very possibly a bit more carburetor would make a big improvement as well.
The only other thing I would contemplate would be a copy of a late Mexican beetle engine with hydraulics and Mexican FI.
But that would cost 5 times as much.
Al |
I saw an add for a 1975 Beetle FI engine complete Titled " 1975 VW 1600cc Engine Fuel Injection Complete Volkswagen Motor Injected" but used not rebuilt for $1000 just the other day, I think it's on e-bay.
But yeah, Going with a set of 88mm piston and cylinders and probably the L3 heads, I got the Bearings back $10 to cut thrust and now it's got a pulled Cam Stud so I am going to try to Heli-Coil repair it myself when the kit comes. Heli-Coil
The NPR Pistions I had experience with were the Porsche 356A 1600 engine's big bore kit. Those pistons are really strong but they were heavy. Expensive now for them. Trying to figure out the Oil Pump I have now. It's a used 26mm that was on a Bus engine had to really grind the hell out of it to fit it with the W-100 Cam this engine is getting. It's nice though because it sticks out of the case less than the schedak vw oil pump 26 111-115-107 AKHD that I have used previously.
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Tcash
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Joined: July 20, 2011
Posts: 12844
Location: San Jose, California, USA
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| Posted: Sat Mar 05, 2016 5:42 pm Post subject: Re: Building a Stock ish Type 1 engine for the 1971 VW Bus? |
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You may want to stake that oil pump idler shaft. They are known for walking out.
Good luck
Tcash |
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Danwvw
Samba Member
Joined: July 31, 2012
Posts: 8892
Location: Oregon Coast
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| Posted: Sat Mar 05, 2016 6:15 pm Post subject: Re: Building a Stock ish Type 1 engine for the 1971 VW Bus? |
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| Tcash wrote: |
You may want to stake that oil pump idler shaft. They are known for walking out.
Good luck
Tcash |
I know I really cut it down didn't I, So what your saying is that I should try to drill a hole where, in side of the pump perpendicular into the steel shaft for say a 1/16" roll pin? Not sure I can drill a hole with my hand drill, should I try it?
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scrivyscriv
Samba Electrician
Joined: October 04, 2011
Posts: 2922
Location: Memphis
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| Posted: Sat Mar 05, 2016 6:51 pm Post subject: Re: Building a Stock ish Type 1 engine for the 1971 VW Bus? |
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At least ya found the pulled stud before final case torque!
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Robert in Memphis
Dünkelgrügen 1967 Java Green bug thread
Engine rebuild thread
If you're ever in the Memphis area, you are welcome to stop by for advice and help. |
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Danwvw
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Joined: July 31, 2012
Posts: 8892
Location: Oregon Coast
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| Posted: Sat Mar 05, 2016 7:01 pm Post subject: Re: Building a Stock ish Type 1 engine for the 1971 VW Bus? |
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Yeah, it pulled during my first mock-up with the crank and cam installed I probably had a little more than 14 lbs of torque on it, tried epoxy [ie] 6 hour JB Weld and that would not even hold 14 lbs.
But an the problem with pinning the oil pump man I may need to re think using this one anyone have any photos of a pinned oil pump shaft? What happens when they fail? Do the gears bind and do they mess anything other than the pump up when it happens?
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scrivyscriv
Samba Electrician
Joined: October 04, 2011
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Location: Memphis
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Danwvw
Samba Member
Joined: July 31, 2012
Posts: 8892
Location: Oregon Coast
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| Posted: Sat Mar 05, 2016 8:19 pm Post subject: Re: Building a Stock ish Type 1 engine for the 1971 VW Bus? |
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Oh, there is no way to do that to this thing!
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Tcash
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Joined: July 20, 2011
Posts: 12844
Location: San Jose, California, USA
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| Posted: Sat Mar 05, 2016 9:12 pm Post subject: Re: Building a Stock ish Type 1 engine for the 1971 VW Bus? |
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This is what I was referring to. I would go in a little tighter and deform the metal a little more.
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Danwvw
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Joined: July 31, 2012
Posts: 8892
Location: Oregon Coast
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| Posted: Sun Mar 06, 2016 2:44 pm Post subject: Re: Building a Stock ish Type 1 engine for the 1971 VW Bus? |
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OK I see! I can do that, The steel shaft is still nice and tight in the aluminum housing. So I will do that and Post a photo. The thing is there is only 1/4" of housing holding that shaft.
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Alan Brase
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Joined: March 28, 2004
Posts: 4532
Location: Cedar Falls, Iowa
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| Posted: Sun Mar 06, 2016 3:19 pm Post subject: Re: Building a Stock ish Type 1 engine for the 1971 VW Bus? |
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Perhaps I do not understand but it appears to me you are using a pump that is later style for a dished cam yet using the earlier cam. Why not just get the right pump? How can it possibly NOT FAIL when you have removed over half the support? I think that pump is a now a paperweight.
Al
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Al Brase
Projects: 67 sunroof bug, 67 Porsche 912 Targa, 70 Westy
Dec 1955 Single Cab pickup WANT 15" BUS RIMS dated 8/55, thru 12/55
To New owners: 1969 doublecab, 1971 Dormobile
Vanagons:
80 P27 Westy JUL 1979, 3rd oldest known US
83 1.6TD Vanagon, 87 Wolfie Westy daily driver, swap meet home |
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Danwvw
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Joined: July 31, 2012
Posts: 8892
Location: Oregon Coast
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Danwvw
Samba Member
Joined: July 31, 2012
Posts: 8892
Location: Oregon Coast
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| Posted: Sun Apr 03, 2016 1:35 pm Post subject: Re: Building a Stock ish Type 1 engine for the 1971 VW Bus? |
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Ok Ordered that new Schadek oil pump from SoCal but I don't think was a Schadek, it fit's pretty loose but the cam engage and all is good so using it. Pump with Cover Modified for full flow. Note! No Grinding on the Pump body was required and the tab engages the cam very nicely with this SocCal Aftermarket 26mm oil pump.
And
Ok here is a question, which Remote Oil Filter Bracket do I need for running on a stock setup. I want to get one of these Oil Filter Mount Brackets and they come in Inside vs Outside It looks like on a stock exhaust I need an Inside but I am not sure. Anyone do this? Now this is just for test running the engine I think.
Oil Filter Mount Inward Facing
Oil Filter Mount Outward Facing
Ok I found out that they don't fit a stock setup but went with ordering the inside one from PowerHaus which I think will come in handy for test starting the engine out of the bus!
Photos of the 1971 VW Bus Engine Short Block Assembly
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aeromech
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Joined: January 24, 2006
Posts: 16970
Location: San Diego, California
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| Posted: Sun Apr 03, 2016 2:30 pm Post subject: Re: Building a Stock ish Type 1 engine for the 1971 VW Bus? |
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Well, you don't really need the filter for the test run. As a matter of fact I ran one last week and didn't use a cooler.
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Lead Mechanic: San Diego Air and Space Museum
Licensed Airframe and Powerplant Mechanic
Licensed Pilot (Single engine Land)
Boeing 727,737-200-300-400,757,767
Airbus A319,320,321
DC9/MD80
BAe146
Fokker F28/F100
VW type 1 1962,63,65,69,72
VW Type 2 1971 (3 ea.) 1978, 1969
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Danwvw
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Joined: July 31, 2012
Posts: 8892
Location: Oregon Coast
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| Posted: Sun Apr 03, 2016 3:26 pm Post subject: Re: Building a Stock ish Type 1 engine for the 1971 VW Bus? |
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Yeah, I understand. I kind of like the Idea of that filter catching anything loose in the engine during first Run Cam Break-in.
This is what came out of the filter after First Start on my Bus Engine.
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aeromech
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Joined: January 24, 2006
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Location: San Diego, California
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| Posted: Sun Apr 03, 2016 3:40 pm Post subject: Re: Building a Stock ish Type 1 engine for the 1971 VW Bus? |
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No doubt. The run I did was not a break in. Just saying that a cooler and filter aren't needed unless you do a long run. Keeping that in mind though... you could always do the break in run and then put a few hundred miles on and then change the oil filter. The screen will catch anything big.
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Lead Mechanic: San Diego Air and Space Museum
Licensed Airframe and Powerplant Mechanic
Licensed Pilot (Single engine Land)
Boeing 727,737-200-300-400,757,767
Airbus A319,320,321
DC9/MD80
BAe146
Fokker F28/F100
VW type 1 1962,63,65,69,72
VW Type 2 1971 (3 ea.) 1978, 1969
VW Jetta
VW Passat
Capable of leaping tall buildings in a single bound |
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Danwvw
Samba Member
Joined: July 31, 2012
Posts: 8892
Location: Oregon Coast
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| Posted: Sun Apr 03, 2016 5:39 pm Post subject: Re: Building a Stock ish Type 1 engine for the 1971 VW Bus? |
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That makes sense you would not need them for a test run. What I may do to save using a new oil filter is change the oil and filter on the engine in my bus and use the used filter on the new engine for the 20 minute run cam breakin.
Ever test fire one without the fan shroud and all.
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