Building a Stock ish Type 1 engine for the 1971 VW Bus?

[Daddylolo]

W-100 is ok if you want a close to stock performance and as nowadays stock cams do not perform as WV original parts anymore I think it is the best solution. I have a Engel-100 on my 1600 bug engine with a pair of weber ICT's and it is the best performance close to stock with a bit plus power good to nowadays type of traffic.
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'70 hot rod bug
'77 hawaiian bay van
'46 Buick Eight
'67 Ghia

[GTV]

Couple things I've noticed on this thread...

The PO10 Zenith is designed for single carb use and has a balance slot between the butterflies. It works best with an individual runner style manifold, NOT the plenum that you have now. The other Zenith's that were from a dual set do not have the balance slot and work best with a plenum manifold.

Zenith's came with a 24mm venturi in Normal engines, 28mm in the Super. 25mm was aftermarket I believe.

This was my original VW built engine, about 120k+ miles in this picture. I added the Zenith (25mm venturi and removed the brace across the top), a header with glass pack, Santana pulley and the 010. I totally geeked out and tuned it very well with an LM-1. I loved the car in this form (it's long gone now)

borninabus ended up with all of the Zenith goodies I had accumulated
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EMPI Power Rules!

[Danwvw]

Thanks for the valuable input "GTV" kind of makes sense, I was however reading that the Zeniths performed better with the plenum manifold and the Webers better with the Singles. But your saying it matters about the crossover base. Ok well. Yeah, Probably should look into that. I really like that Race Trim manifold nice looking but so are the chromed singles your showing. "modoc" seems to think smaller sized tubes are the key to maximum performance too. I like the idea of getting the right base for my P010 Zenith NDIC 32/25.
I tell you what though, I fired it up again yesterday on the bench and that Zenith turned this little motor into an animal!
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1960 Beetle And 1679cc DP W-100 & Dual Zeniths!

[Danwvw]

Thanks, "Daddylolo" good to hear what your thinking, I am still trying to figure out the compatibility 0f 40 horse rockers on a 1600. Not sure I really like the W-100 cam but it's in the range of what I am wanting this engine to do. But I think there actually is quite a bit of difference between it and a stock cam. The W-100 is what 236' at .050" kind of like this WebCam 119 grind and has pretty high lift where the stock cam grind has very little lift and probably 213 degrees @ .050"
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1960 Beetle And 1679cc DP W-100 & Dual Zeniths!

[Danwvw]

Just got back from Colorado and this engine has set on the bench for a Month without being started. It was a bear to get it to start and run with the Zenith! Still running cold needs full heat return to the carb to even rev right.

Need to figure out something better than a single Zenith with Enrichment Valve,
Perhaps I will try to find another P010 Zenith and some dual manifolds. Will Dual zeniths work with their enrichment valves in place? Outside air temp here in Oregon in the 40's this morning.

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1960 Beetle And 1679cc DP W-100 & Dual Zeniths!

[airschooled]

[Danwvw]

I suppose I should be grateful for the bump but,
Please be nice! I never say ugly things about other peoples threads! I'm Just trying to get some answers and a deeper understanding of VW AirCooled Type 1 Engines here with this project.
So I get it that no one is probably checking this thread much now and that I will probably need to post my question on another thread to find the right answer. Readers don't see the Subject at hand and Subjects do not show up on "New Post", just the original title does.
Now back to the Subject at hand. I have another "Zenith Question?"
"boreninabus" was pointing out I have the enrichment valve upside down. Today I am trying to correct that and think I have it but just need to know what position the rotator plate goes. I tried these two positions and it acts quite different. There are 4 possible positions.
Here is what I have tried. It seems to work best in the position shown in the second photo here:
In this first photo it is shown with the choke off:

In this second photo the plate position was rotated 90' CW and it is shown with the choke on.

Found This Diagram that shows the Enrichment Valve:
http://www.thehaflinger.com/download/file.php?id=279&sid=68d30978c3419c3f554188590d1150d3
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1960 Beetle And 1679cc DP W-100 & Dual Zeniths!

[Danwvw]

Ok going with it that way, Starts better seems right according to the diagram: diagram

More Photos with it not choked and positioned:

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1960 Beetle And 1679cc DP W-100 & Dual Zeniths!

[Danwvw]

Re Reading this post now, Very helpful. Before purchasing the plenum intake manifold I had read that they "plenums" worked better with Zenith and the (non plenum) better with the Holley Carb. At this point I will probably just get 24 mm venturi etc then eventually I may get a Air Fuel Ratio readout and re-Jet better.
This engine will set on my work bench for the winter and I will give it a start some cold morning to see how it does and then take it from there.
Just for the info, my other engines with the Dual 36mm Dellortos fire right up then idle within a few seconds when it's cold. no chokes at all! There is much to be said for Dual's over singles. My deduction is that Stock or other single carb intake runners! are Trouble on an AirCooled! Engine.

[GTV]

Keep your eye out for an individual runner manifold. I think I paid $5-10 at a swap meet for the one pictured there. It was smooth as silk.

Here's the top mod I eventually did. Probably not good for an off road car (fuel slosh) but it worked great on the street for me. I had to increase the mains one size to accommodate the extra air flow.

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EMPI Power Rules!

[Danwvw]

I have some 36mm dells but they have the chokes, I am rebuilding the dells now and will try them to see how this engine behaves with them. It's going to be a problem though as the chokes IE fuel enrichment hook-up don't clear the doghouse fan shroud. Found this about that. my DRLA dells have something like a choke cable! on Shop Talk.
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1960 Beetle And 1679cc DP W-100 & Dual Zeniths!

[Spike0180]

I saw a few posts back, you were a bit frustrated. If you were to have this post in the engine/transmission performance forum, you may get more detailed information from a wider variety of engine builders. I've read of some crazy builds that they got to work over there. Just a suggestion. Good job taking on an engine build.
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Brutis Patches Izabich: 1970 VW Transporter - 1776cc DP
Current State: Projects never truly end...
Location: Grosse Pointe, Michigan
Other cars: 2003 F150, 2003 Jetta GLI vr6-6sp

Sambastic: adj; the quality of being nit picky, elitist, expecting everyone to do things the way they believe is best with no regard to situation, "sambastic"

[Danwvw]

Thanks Spike for the reply, Yeah, That's Ok This is really about a Bus Engine. My goal at the moment is to compare various carb set-ups with a Stock Exhaust system with the real goal being a quietly operating very driveable good performing 69mm stroke type 1 engine for the early bay.

This all started though with me just wanting an engine to put all of the Stock Parts I have for the Original bus together for it. And I will likely return this thing to that Original Stock engine when I am done playing around with it.

Looks like the easiest way around the choke levers not fitting is to just remove them right now. Probably just remove them maybe screw a 6mm crew into that nub that sticks up inside the air cleaner to keep the plungers closed. I would be nice though if they had a servo on them that handled starting and worm-up nicely. I think there would be room for it If I went to the 36 Horse Fan Shroud.

At some point I want to actually try this engine in the bus with each set-up and just see which one is the nicest to drive around in.

I have Dells now on the bus and they are pretty nice. Got to be able to know how to start it though. Floods pretty, Noisy with the Extractor exhaust, get's a little cantankerous to start and drive around town when it's Hot just off the highway when the outside air temp is above 100. But the dells are pretty good once it's moving over 40mph. Things cool down even in the heat.

I have had experience with the Zeniths as Duals in both the 356's and in driven with them in a split window. They were pretty nice as a rule. They do take a hell of a lot of pumping to start on the 356 engine when the Outside air temperature gets below 15' F. That was without Chokes which the 356 did not have.

Right now the thing I am going to be doing is ordering some 28mm Venturi's right now these dells are 30mm. I think I will start with:
28mm venturi's,
122 Mains,
180 Air Corrections,
55 idles.

I did really want to see how those chokes ie Enrichment's on the dells worked for starting a cold engine But I need a 36 Horse Dog House or something to clear them.
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1960 Beetle And 1679cc DP W-100 & Dual Zeniths!

[Danwvw]

Single Zenith NDIX 32 to Dual 36mm Dells

Not sure this engine still qualifies as "Stock ish" But here is what I did to it today! Well Yesterday now.

Starts better now Idles right off the bat without needing more than about 10 seconds of keeping it going at first.

Waiting to hear back from CB-Performance on the 28mm Venturis, I did install them. Dellorto venturi O.D. sizes? 36,40,45mm interchangable?
69mm Stroke X 88mm Bore 1679cc Type 1 engine.
28mm venturi
55 idles
180 air correction
125 mains
Enrichment linkages removed.

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1960 Beetle And 1679cc DP W-100 & Dual Zeniths!

[Danwvw]

So I really wanted to see how it would run with the CB DRLA 40 28mm venturis that they sold me for these 36 DRLA's, But ran into a slight delay. My haste in troubleshooting a vacuum leak resulted in a Broken Manifold. But did have it running for a bit but with the vacuum leak it was just 3 cylinders at idle and I have yet to adjust the carbs. It did run and rev ok but nothing like the other two larger engines below. Parts should be here tomorrow. Pat seems to be ignoring me.

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1960 Beetle And 1679cc DP W-100 & Dual Zeniths!

[Abscate]

Perfect JB weld application
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.ssS!

[Danwvw]

I thought about doing that for just long enough to dial it in but decided not to risk that causing a broken stud or something else, don't think it would hold a big dell carb. Sure wouldn't not try that if stranded though! Maybe with a big washer on it?
PS. This super bowl ball game is like over and it's still the 1st half!
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1960 Beetle And 1679cc DP W-100 & Dual Zeniths!

[Danwvw]

My replacement manifolds arrived today so I have it running again.

With the Dellorto 36's with the CB-Performance 28mm Venturi's!

Actually they are ok I think? Will post how they act in real video then also try the 30mm original Dellorto venturi's and post a video of the 30's maybe tomorrow?

The thing is these dual carbs can swamp the engine if I open the throttle too quick. Was seeing that with the Single Zenith NDIX 32 also.

But.

Once warmed up, the Dual Dell's are a definite improvement in response over the Single Zenith. And. There is much less warm-up time.


Link

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1960 Beetle And 1679cc DP W-100 & Dual Zeniths!

[Danwvw]

A Real Video where you can hear it running. Would any of you that may have insight into running Dellorto 36's please advise.
1679cc Type 1 Engine
Stock Exhaust etc..
W-100 Cam,
Dual Dellorto DRLA 36mm carbs,
CB-Performance 28mm Venturi's
180 Air Correction,
125 Mains,
55 Idles,
For 1971 VW Bus.


Link

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1960 Beetle And 1679cc DP W-100 & Dual Zeniths!

[Bulli Klinik]

Is the timing and dwell properly adjusted and checked with a meter? How did you go about adjusting the carb mixture? After that's dialed in, adjust the accelerator pumps to just squirt what you need.

Pumping on the linkage like you are is going to flood the motor regardless of how it's set up. I would suggest not swapping parts at this point and getting your adjustment right. It should run well with what you have.

Also, it sounded like some popping up through the carb when you first fired it. Did you re-check the valves after breaking it in?
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I've never met a Bus I didn't like.
Mike K
Bulli Klinik
Colorado Springs