Engine is loud on highway...not exhaust

[Zack1978]

Hi everyone,
I took my 72 Karmann Ghia to a very well respected and trusted VW mechanic to do a general tune up, and fix exhaust leaks.....my car has him stumped.
On the highway the car is VERY loud, so much so that two adults in the car almost need to yell to have a conversation. I was under the assumption that something was wrong with the exhaust system, which was causing the noise.
Well ha called me today to say that in general the exhaust is fine (well one heater box is bad), and that the noise is not exhaust related in his opinion. He noted that there is a good amount of vibration emanating from the engine that is being transmitted to the transmission. He thinks that it is almost "like bad bearings" in the engine. He noted that it is very strange since the engine runs perfectly fine. He indicated that if you put your hand on the trans with the engine running, you can actually feel the vibration. He is truly stumped, which is shocking since he has been repairing air cooled VW's ONLY for the past 50 years. Does anyone have any ideas as to what I can check, or have him check? I would hate to have my engine torn down for no good reason, if it might be something else.


Thanks,
Zack
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1972 Coupe

[KTPhil]

Does it correlate to engine speed, and not just road speed?

I presume so, since he'd be a real superman if he had his hand on the tranny while you drive on the highway...

So assuming he replicated the noise on the lift, he would be in a position to evaluate the exhaust system properly. Did you listen while it was on the lift? Are you sure that's the same noise you hear on the road?

I'd resort to a stethoscope while on the lift and listen whether it comes from the tranny or engine.

How does the clutch feel?

[mark tucker]

something hard attached to the engine/trans is contacting part of the body or frame.,

[OLD VW NUT]

Check the trans mounts - if they are the solid type they will transmit a lot of sound into the car. Been there - done that. I'll never have solid mounts on a street car again.
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71 Ghia Coupe - stock body - no rust! Powered by a 2110 W/Dual HPMX 44's - Rancho Pro Street Transaxle - A/C by Gilmore

Other car - 2013 VW Golf TDI

[Tbirdusa]

Since we don't have a like button on this site, I will just give a like to the solid mounts comment.

LIKE
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[Zack1978]

Ok a bit of an update...
The mechanic called me this evening and said the mounts "are stiffer than he would like, but they still have a little flexibility left in them". He didn't notice any part of the body making contact with the engine or trans.
I can't imagine that someone put any type of performance mount in my car, so I assume that they are either original or a stock replacement. I have owned the car since 1992 and I know in my ownership period they have never been changed.
So I will buy new mounts at this point. So what is the best style/brand of mount to buy? I think I need three mounts, correct? One for the front, and two for the back? What about engine mounts? I also noticed on Jbugs (http://www.jbugs.com/category/1972-vw-karmann-ghia-transmission-mounts.html) they have a trans front and rear support bracket kit. Would that be needed? They also sell urethane mounts, are they the best?

Thanks,
Zack
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1972 Coupe

[KTPhil]

Urethane is too stiff, and may be the cause of your problem. There was a fad to replace all rubber with urethane, but on a street machine it is TOO stiff, just like yours. You may not have replaced them but a PO may have. Or your stock rubber mounts may have hardened or flattened with age. Lots of labor (engine and tranny come out). While it's all out take care of any cables, brake hoses, seals and other stuff under there while you are at it, and you won't have to visit there for many years.

[OLD VW NUT]

[mark tucker]

my urathanes are fine, and quiet too. as are the padded trans strap's. find the sorce of the noise. even a steel fuel line contacting the body will do it. check it all then put a main shaft bearing in it.

[VdanielW]

Hopefully your guy has also pulled the generator belt off- I've had bad generator bearings so noisy I thought for sure my aftermarket trans gears were the culprit! When I swapped the engine into my daily with vw gears and could still hear the noise I new it had to be else where.

[Zack1978]

Well I talked to my mechanic again today, and he is still totally stumped as to the problem. I actually find my car annoying to drive at this point, as it is so loud. He does not want to "throw parts at my car", but he also can't figure it out. I don;t know what to do, I have been thinking of getting a second opinion...but my mechanic is regarded as one of the best in the area. We discussed the trans mounts again, but he is not totally sure they will solve the problem. Does anyone have any other ideas to check? I will have him look into the generator idea.

Thanks,
Zack
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1972 Coupe

[74 Thing]

Can you please post a video-that may help us make suggestions for you.

You are going to have to do some investigative work yourself. An easy way to check for an exhaust leak is take a shop vac and reverse it so it blows air. Put that in the muffler with a rag and then spray all joints with a soap/water mixture. If there is an air leak it will bubble.

Did you get underneath and check the tranny mounts?

Did you check the body to chasis pads?

http://vwparts.aircooled.net/SearchResults.asp?Search=body+pad

[Zack1978]

[71busguy]

look in the fan (engine off!!!!) to see if anything made its way into the fan, I had an exhaust gasket get into mine..... dont ask me how..... it made some strange noises and vibrations on the highway

[nextgen]

Like one of the guys said body to chassis rubber pads should be checked.


BUT-- my brother had a Ghia and a similar problem, it was a tranny bearing.

The tranny worked fine, he never removed it, and lived with it.


His solution was to increase the volume on the radio. Never fixed it and sold the car.
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[mark tucker]

get it up on stands, start it and try pushing/pulling/prying the pully tin around. look to see if the pully is falling off feal around on things, use a stethascope on the bell housing,find where it is coming from.we are not there and can only give sugestions. remember harmonics cause sounds to come from many places and also cause other things to vibrate from harmonics. does it make the noise in gear?with clutch pushed in in gear?clutch out ? my bug has no padding/insulation/tar bord.urathane mounted with padded trans strap kit.it is quieter than most cars Ive been in quieter than most stock ones unless Im standing on the throttell. just keep checken.

[didget69]

First: if the mounts have never been replaced during your ownership, get them replaced. Replace the trans mounts with good quality stock style mounts - they're cheap.

http://www2.cip1.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=VWC-211-301-263-2

http://www2.cip1.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=VWC-211-301-265-1

Second: As for the clutch, I have had excellent results sourcing from here -

http://www.clutchcityonline.com/vw_type_1.htm

$93.00 & Free UPS shipping


bnc
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[71busguy]

did you ever figure it out?

[Zack1978]

[TinCanFab]