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411/412 004 four speed trans rebuild (new 12-7 @ 12:51 pm)
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raygreenwood
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2023 12:49 pm    Post subject: Re: 411/412 004 four speed trans rebuild (new 12-7 @ 12:51 pm) Reply with quote

Just a placeholder update:

I have not forgotten this at all. Its still wrapped up waiting.

I have other items to finish out front...notably the 1.8L build

I did find the pinion bearings as I noted in 2019. Yes...Summit Racing is the way to go for these. I found out that they were not jerking me around. Their site lists "in stock"...but its not true.

It is a stock item....but they order them in as needed. Expect 4-6 weeks.

I am always working on a lot of little things on this car when I cannot work on the big things.

Going through the parts and methods I was planning for this transmission and the differential jig fixture I have built....which is way too much of a pain to use accurately ....so I decided nt to use it. I decided that since I caught this transmission BEFORE there were any permanently damaged bearings....that the bearing adjustment and mesh were correct.

I established this by using gear paste and looking at the mesh markings on the ring gear. I will be posting the before and after pictures as I get back to this.

All that needed to be done was a very slight adjustment to ring gear backlash. That can be adjusted simply with a dial indicator and the side adjuster rings.

I can take a quick reference measurement of the old pinion bearing location with a dial indicator with the differential removed. Once the new pinion bearings are installed on the shaft and the preload is set, I will install it in the case and check with dial indicator again. If the new pinion bearing has gotten closer or farther away from the location of original bearing I can adjust that at the steel shim under the pinion carrier flange.

Then remove the pinion carrier and put it aside. Install the differential with new bearings in the case and adjust preload with the adjusting ring opposite the ring gear teeth.

When that is set, remove the diff, install the pinion carrier and diff....and then run the gears with paste again to insure I got it back to the original pattern or better.

Hopefully coming in 2024! Ray
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2022 7:38 am    Post subject: Re: 411/412 004 four speed trans rebuild (new 12-7 @ 12:51 pm) Reply with quote

Thank you Ray , I'll start a thread when I get started on the rebuild Smile
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 17, 2022 12:27 pm    Post subject: Re: 411/412 004 four speed trans rebuild (new 12-7 @ 12:51 pm) Reply with quote

I am not aware of anyone else posting a how to for a 004 transmission. This one is still waiting. To many other projects in the way and I cannot use the transmission anyway until those are done.

It may be spring before I get back to it.

However....start a thread and I can walk you through it. This thread has most of what is required for disassembly to get you started. I can give you a list of parts to buy. Ray
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 17, 2022 8:59 am    Post subject: Re: 411/412 004 four speed trans rebuild (new 12-7 @ 12:51 pm) Reply with quote

Hi Ray,

I remember seeing a recent follow up relating to refreshing / rebuild of a four speed type 4 manual transmission, but can't find now. I just got back from a visit to see Chris in Indy and purchasing his set on conversion parts to include the four speed previously installed in his 412 wagon. Can you help me find the step by step on getting it ready for service ?

Best Regards,
CaveHead
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 29, 2019 8:54 pm    Post subject: Re: 411/412 004 four speed trans rebuild (new 12-7 @ 12:51 pm) Reply with quote

Thanks for the info!
This project is not lost....just delayed for a,while. Almoat a year ago now ai moved. It all got sealed up in a box. This was just fine as I was stopped due to not being able to locate new pinion shaft bearings.

Finally got some around this February.

The problem with the type 4 trans....to your point....is not so much getting the ring and pinion mesh specs....but getting the unique tools to set them up.

I am lucky with the one I am rebuilding....that the r&p....is not worn out and it in g9od adjustment.

Since the pinion and differential bearings that are in it are starting to show visible...but not yet measureable at the shaft and gear....wear......I have caught it early enough that if I can replace them and replicate the same gear set position....after applying correct pre-load to the new bearings....I will be set.

So.....the differential side ring settings are known....and the plan is to measure the axial posit8on of the ring gear. The radial position can be checked and be known by checking backlash between the ring and pinion. I can correct excessive backlash with the diff side adjuster rings....and then measure axial location of the pinion with jig I made.

The nice thing with this transmission type....is that the pinion axial depth is pre-set t9 the ring gear. The only thing that will change that is if when I change the outer pinion shaft bearing.....if the bearing and race add or subtract from pinion gear position. If they do..mits just add or subtract from the main shim inside the bell housing.

I have a really good inch pound torque wrench with spinner for setting first diff bearing preload....then remove.....then pinion bearing preload....then the two combined on install.

It also has occoured to me that since the pinion bearings are in good shape and in correct running position.....I can also simply check the pattern of the gear set and photograph from a set point.....install new bearings, set pre-load, set differential side position with the adjusting rings....set backlash.....and then check the mesh pattern with paste again....and adjust position at the shim until the pattern matches again. Ray

I finished a jig fixture
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 29, 2019 1:43 pm    Post subject: Re: 411/412 004 four speed trans rebuild (new 12-7 @ 12:51 pm) Reply with quote

Hi Ray. Looking good so far! I finally got around to checking this thread out. There is a lot to those gear boxes; they are not for the faint of heart. I noticed you were inquiring and curious about the "etched" markings on the ring gear itself.

Let me say that yes they are in fact factory markings etched in the manufacturing process of the ring and pinion set.
Part of the process is "running in" the ring and pinion set to find its optimal point for quiet running. VW used to have the machine operators record certain info on the ring gear during the process. VW stopped doing this step of the process in the early-mid 1970’s. So after a while ring and pinion sets stopped being etched.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


1. The pinion depth setting. Each ring and pinion design is given a base setting where it can be run this designation is referred to as "r". So this number is the deviation from "r" on the master gauge where this ring and pinion set runs quietest. This measurement is in hundredths of a millimeter. This number is needed by the technician when rebuilding the unit using the proper pinion depth measuring tool. The deveation from "r" is given the designation "ro". So in your case it reads ro=38.

2. Machine operator code. Pretty self-explanatory. This tells the powers that be who was at the switch and on which machine when the gear set was made.

3. Matching number. Once the ring and pinion set is “run in” it becomes a matched gear set and should not be interchanged with any other gears. Matching numbers helped to prevent mix ups in initial factory assembly as well as rebuilding. This number is etched on the pinion gear as well as the ring gear. Sometimes all this info is etched on both gears of the set.

Hope that adds to the project.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 5:57 am    Post subject: Re: 411/412 004 four speed trans rebuild (new 12-7 @ 12:51 pm) Reply with quote

1500king wrote:
Interesting thread!! Smile

I have a dead 004 out of my 412LS, was replaced due to the car being hit in the rear while parked and in gear. The owner at the time bought a new replacement from VW in the UK(late 1980's) but never again drove the car. He also ordered all the shift linkages, stick, boot and gate but never fitted them and are new in the VW bags still.

Watching closely, I have gone out of my way to find all the Matra/Peiseler/Kukko transmission and diff tools for these over the years. Very hard to find, but never the less now done.

I expect parts will be an equal challenge!!


Very cool! Hoping to get bearings in by one method or anot h er in about two weeks.

Eother way its been too long. Others are in a holding pattern as well. If nothing comes quickly for the pinion bearings....I will go ahead an set lash and preload with my home made jigs and existing bearings just for practice and to demonstrate the method.

Ray
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 1:50 am    Post subject: Re: 411/412 004 four speed trans rebuild (new 12-7 @ 12:51 pm) Reply with quote

Interesting thread!! Smile

I have a dead 004 out of my 412LS, was replaced due to the car being hit in the rear while parked and in gear. The owner at the time bought a new replacement from VW in the UK(late 1980's) but never again drove the car. He also ordered all the shift linkages, stick, boot and gate but never fitted them and are new in the VW bags still.

Watching closely, I have gone out of my way to find all the Matra/Peiseler/Kukko transmission and diff tools for these over the years. Very hard to find, but never the less now done.

I expect parts will be an equal challenge!!
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 10:11 am    Post subject: Re: 411/412 004 four speed trans rebuild (new 12-7 @ 12:51 pm) Reply with quote

And as an update...yet again....Rockauto sent a notice that parts are NOT in stock. Money refunded.

I got a little tweaked and contacted RockAuto customer service and asked..."what gives".

Got a very prompt reply back ...I love Rockauto customer service...right up there with McMaster Carr...stellar!

They noted that when the pic sheet went to the warehouse, teh computer showed stock but when they went to pull the parts they were nowhere to be found. They suggested trying other companies and keeping the "in stock" notice as a backup. They apologized.

So....several e-mails back and forth with Summit:

E-mail reply #1: Not a stock item and they must special order.

My Reply: so its nowhere in YOUR stock yet your site says it is. How can I get these.

E-mail #2: If your order them from Summit...we will order them in for you

My Reply:....and the gist is ....how do you know that Timken has any stock on a limited production bearing ...and meanwhile my $$$ is tied up for months while you wait on production that may not happen until the total amount of orders reach X amount?

E-mail #3: Because Summit has an account with Timken (paraphrasing here) and we do not offer something unless we know we can get it.

My reply:....so have YOU...SUMMIT....contacted Timken in this very case to verify that they have stock of this bearing?

E-mail # 4: Yes....this is coming from Timken. They have stock.

So....it appears....unless they are full of sh*t that it is an option to order from Summit racing. They are about $75 each.....not cheap.....but available is available.

And thank you Tony Z for your efforts! Ray
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 9:54 am    Post subject: Re: 411/412 004 four speed trans rebuild (new 12-7 @ 12:51 pm) Reply with quote

Well done.
I managed to find the part listing today in a catalog today at a local bearing supplier - unfortunately, it was a catalog from a company which he didnt stock.
I was going to head to the local agent for the other company early next week.
O yes, and the catalog says you need two for the box.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 07, 2017 8:57 am    Post subject: Re: 411/412 004 four speed trans rebuild (new 12-7 @ 12:51 pm) Reply with quote

So.....Rockauto just sent me an,e-mail notice that my parts are back in stock.....Timken M86648 pinion bearings for about $39 each....which is a great price.

I caught the e-mail with the hour of when it was sent and ordered two (its all that my budget allows this week or I would have ordered 4 or 6.....I have three trans that need rebuilding).

We will see if either I get a notice that parts are actually out of stock......and my money is refunded....or they arrive next Tuesday as scheduled.

By the way....I got a reply from Summit racing this morning. NO.....they do not have the parts in stock and they say they are special order....which to me....means they are "hoping" they can simply order them from Timken.....which they usually can't.

These appear to be a limited production bearing....but with the speed they go out of stock....its a good bet that it fits more than a few cars and is usually used as a pinion bearing.
The sheer fact that Summit lists it says that it must fit a few odd American car transmissions......I think long ago I found a note that it fits some 1970s International brand transmissions.

I think this also fits the pinion shaft on the type 3 003 automatic. Ray
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 04, 2017 10:15 pm    Post subject: Re: 411/412 004 four speed trans rebuild (new 12-7 @ 12:51 pm) Reply with quote

Thank you for the offer! If you find them let me know the price please and we can see if its worth the cost.

I should have a reply from Summit sometime tomorrow.

The problem with this bearing is not that its out of production. Its in "Limited" production. They only make them every so often. They also fit more than a handful of transmissions.....almost always on the pinion shaft. They are in demand. Ray
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 04, 2017 10:04 pm    Post subject: Re: 411/412 004 four speed trans rebuild (new 12-7 @ 12:51 pm) Reply with quote

Hi Ray

I am going past an SKF dealer either tomorrow or Wednesday. If you want, I can pop in to check if they have or can get. Being on the other side of the planet, maybe there is stock here somewhere?

Whatsapp or sms me exactly what you need and I'll take it from there.
+27 833 418 nine 37

Tony Z
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 02, 2017 1:51 pm    Post subject: Re: 411/412 004 four speed trans rebuild (new 12-7 @ 12:51 pm) Reply with quote

An update so you do not think I have forgotten this. Its all under plastic still.

Today...for the fifth time in 6 months....I tried to order pinion shaft bearings. I got an e-mail/note three days ago that Rockauto had my Timken M86648 bearings in stock. I could not order until today....and....once again...out of stock... Rolling Eyes

It makes me wonder if they had them in stock at all. Three of the other four companies were not as quick as RockAuto to correct.
You order...you pay....a week or so later when nothing has arrived you get an e-mail that they are out of stock or waiting on stock way down the line...then you have to contact to get your refund.

I will be back on this soon. I may have to physically show up at a bearing dealer and order for exorbitant prices.

Places like CarId.com.....stay away from. They dont have anything. They are just trolling. Many of them will take your money and just assume they can order what you want and mark it up.

I have just place a stock query with Summit Racing whose site says they have these bearings. We will see.

Sorry for the year plus delay. Ray
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 30, 2016 11:10 am    Post subject: Re: 411/412 004 four speed trans rebuild (new 12-7 @ 12:51 pm) Reply with quote

12-30-2016

An interesting note and a small recap:

The correct bearing part # for the PINION SHAFT bearings are:

SKF: 331457

Timken: M86648 sometimes listed as M86648-A

I am re-posting this because at one point in time I listed it as M86649...WHICH IS INCORRECT!. The 86649 is identical to the M86648...but the ID is too small by .035"


As far as finding these....I rarely find the SKF bearing available at all when doing a google search. Occasionally I find one on Ebay...but in the recent past the few I have found looked like they were stored poorly...boxes dusty or ripped up...and bearing either wrapped in paper or out of the bag....and no outer race.

I can buy Timken outer races easily as they fit several bearings....but I am wary of mixing races with bearing brands....not to be construed as a form of "racism" Laughing

The only bearings I can readily find are the Timken M8664A...and they are EXPENSIVE...typically best deals are $58 to $70 each without outer races....with peak prices around $112 each.

This leads me to believe they are either out of production or in limited production.

Get what you need to rebuild now or in the future...and keep your eyes open and collect them.


An interesting note while looking up these bearings. In the Timken specification literature...they list that the design lifespan is tested and set at 90,000,000 revolutions. Scroll down and read a bit.

http://cad.timken.com/item/all-product-types/taper...item-28335

So....I took my tire size (205-60-15) and found the circumference minus about 1/6th sidewall crush flex....which is 74.93".....and divided the inches per miles (63,360) by the inches per rotation (74.93)...and I get 845.58 rotations per mile. So...one mile= 845.58.

So..divide 90,000,000 revolutions by 845.58...and you get 106,435.81 miles as a design lifespan for the pinion bearings... Shocked ...and...you know?,,,thats about right!

For the stock 165/80-15 tires you get approximately 77" per rotation. so 63,360" / 77" = 822.85 revs per miles...so a lifespan of about 109,375 miles.

EDIT:

I just bought two Timken M86648 pinion bearings from carid.com for $58.85 each and $9 shipping. I will let you know how they look and what service is like. The ratings on CarId.com are excellent.
Ray
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2016 6:29 pm    Post subject: Re: 411/412 004 four speed trans rebuild (new 12-7 @ 12:51 pm) Reply with quote

lhd_service wrote:
Ray,

I came back to see how far you got. Was busy with other things and this time of the year there is not so much to do or start. So I'm going to push this thread in hope you will tell about the proceedings in the meantime.

Since I have not been inside a 004 transmission yet, I like to see your work first before starting. Especially the modifications you wrote about before.

Joerg


Funny you should mention this! Very Happy ......I just ordered pinion bearings and needle bearings today. I have been locked out of my garage for three weeks.

Here is an entertaining story for you..... Laughing

My illustrious landlord....in his effort to modernize.....probably in support of future raises in rent....installed a garage door opener (which I have no need of).....and me not being home....the maintenance man had some problems with the stop/start point programming and being that it was 15°F outside and in the garage.....elected to finish it after Christmas.

A key point to this hilarity.....is that this is a detached garage.....not connected to the house....and has no side or back door. Remember this important fact. Wink

He pulled the track disconnect cord (and that point is also central to this story....remember this)......and closed the garage door and promptly went to San Diego for Christmas.....this was Friday before last.

I come home.....no clicker control on the porch or in the mailbox. I go to lift the garage door....and I am locked out. Rolling Eyes

Call landlord.....he says hes on it. A week goes by and I am busy out and in town. No clicker...no call...still locked out. I call landlord last Wednesday......make the explicit point that he has locked me away from my large tools....and car needs maintenance to start an 1100 mile round trip for Christmas.

He called the maintenance man on a three way....maint man swears he left the track unhooked or he would not have been able to close the door. ......and left the clicker laying on the front hood of my 412..... Rolling Eyes Mad

So....landlord says.....just pull that red handle and the door will release......like....WTF?.....dude.....there is no door.....to get in.....to pull the release handle!!!.....what kind of idiot installs a garage door opener on a detached garage with no 2nd entrance??
I point this issue out.....and I can hear his hand slap his forehead. I could almost hear the silent, mental ......DOH!!!!!

So....landlord says spare clicker is in the shop. He will be by in the morning. And......no call....no show.
So.....unbeknownst to landlord.....I go out qnd lightly pry up a piece of vinyl siding....drill a 2" hole in the wall....make a 7' long steel hook......and......pull the track release cord.......and guess what......NO DOOR RELEASE.

So....I put the plugs back in the hole and replace the siding.....put my padlocks back on so just in case some yahoo fixes it while I am out of town...the door wont be standing open.

Got back 40 minutes ago. In the morning.....I will go to the side of the garage.....and take a brick to the only other way in.....the crank out window over my parts washer. Then I will work to get around the 3/4" slip in panel with a 2" x 4" drop in strony back I have blocking the window.....to stop precisely this from happening. Probably take my sawzall to it.

So.....in short....I will drop in another chapter to the transmission in a couple weeks. It will be measuring play in the existing differential bearings.....and locating the ring and pinion position relative to the case.
Then installing the new bearings......after I break them in with a fixture that clamps them...in a bucket of clean gear oil...on the drill press. Then I can use the preload specs for new bearings with 30 miles or more.
Then once the ring and pinion are installed and located properly.....I will remove ring gear....adjust bearing preload on the pinion shaft assembly.
Then remove pinion shaft assembly and set preload and mark the adjuster rings for ring gear preload.....re-install both.....and check total rotating torque.

When that is done and correct I will move on to checking of synchronizers and then reassembly of gear stack....and then adjustment of shift forks and final case assembly.

So....to finish the garage door story....I am at my parents house.....and look at their garage door opener.

GUESS WHAT?.....the release lock assembly that rides on the track on my garage door....with that nifty red pull release handle......is installed backwards!!!!.......this is why it cannot see the stop point in tue program.....and if the garage door closes tight......there will be a sprijhback that locks/jams the track..... Rolling Eyes Laughing

More to come. Ray
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2016 1:21 pm    Post subject: Re: 411/412 004 four speed trans rebuild (new 12-7 @ 12:51 pm) Reply with quote

Ray,

I came back to see how far you got. Was busy with other things and this time of the year there is not so much to do or start. So I'm going to push this thread in hope you will tell about the proceedings in the meantime.

Since I have not been inside a 004 transmission yet, I like to see your work first before starting. Especially the modifications you wrote about before.

Joerg
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2016 9:52 pm    Post subject: Re: 411/412 004 four speed trans rebuild (new 12-7 @ 12:51 pm) Reply with quote

Ray, Im once again impressed over your knowledge and the way you have put it in writing for all of us.

Thanks!

/Lars S
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2016 2:21 pm    Post subject: Re: 411/412 004 four speed trans rebuild (new 12-7 @ 12:51 pm) Reply with quote

Update 4-11-2016

This update is just information...no pictures...but its important information.

As an update:

First we should get straight what I am doing with this refurbishment and the measuring tool jigs I am using and outline what you can and cannot do with this type of measuring jig…..and when you will need the factory tool set…..as compared to the one I am making.

If I don’t, as I progress, what I am doing will seem very unorthodox.

What I am doing (and what most of you will be doing):

A. Taking an already operating transmission and replacing the bearings and checking all of the synchro gaps and properly adjusting the main gear stack, replacing the differential and pinion shaft bearings to insure longevity BEFORE it starts to get damaging wear.

NOTE: I will be adjusting differential and pinion shaft bearing preload and checking and adjusting the internal shims, spacer tube and thrust washers in the differential to account for wear….but those will follow along factory lines and are not using this jig I am discussing.

B. I will be using a homemade measuring jig to measure and document the already factory set relationship between the ring and pinion gear. I already know this relationship is correct because I have driven with these transmissions and the ring and pinion gears are original.

NOTE: This relationship is set on the pinion shaft ….call this the X axis…..PRIMARILY with a shim between the shaft head and the pinion gear which is splined onto the shaft and SECONDARILY with a shim between the differential housing and the pinion shaft carrier (more on this coming up)

IMPORTANT: This shim under the gear just moves the pinion gear with reference to the ring gear. The shim between the case and the flange on the pinion shaft carrier…..moves the entire pinion shaft assembly fore and aft with reference to both the differential case AND the main gear set case.

This is very important..…because if you somehow feel the need to change, replace or lose this shim….THE MAINSHAFT SHIM BETWEEN 1&2 AND 3&4 GEARSETS AND THE COUNTERSHAFT THRUST SHIMS AND THE SHIMMING OF THE BALL BEARING HUB WILL ALL NEED TO BE ALTERED….because it moves the entire main shaft…which DOUBLES AS the pinion shaft in this transmission……fore and aft changing the relationship of the gears splined onto it…..to the outer case which holds the reverse idler gear and the counter shaft gear cluster and the main shaft ball bearing hub and snap ring.

The ring gear to pinion shaft spacing…call this Y axis….is set by moving the bearing preload adjusters in and out together Just like on the 002 and 091 transmissions….once you adjust the two outer adjusting rings to get proper bearing preload….you turn them in and out simultaneously the exact same amount to move the ring gear further or closer to the pinion shaft…while not disturbing the preload you have set.

A better way…not simpler but better…is to set the left side bearing adjuster to give you your proper spacing of ring gear in the Y axis…..lock it….and then simply sue the other side adjuster and your torque wrench to adjust preload.

C. all we need to know for what we are doing……a bearing replacement/overhaul….is to measure where the pinion gear is in the Y axis to ANY fixed point…..and where the ring gear is in the X axis to any fixed point.

WHAT THIS MEANS FOR ANYONE ELSE WATCHING THIS: is that we cannot use the factory markings on the ring gear and formulas in the book to set up the ring and pinion from scratch. Also…since we are not replacing any critical parts like: the differential housing, the pinion shaft, the ring gear or the pinion gear…..we have no need to use the factory method or jigs.

WHAT YOU CANNOT DO WITH THIS METHOD I AM USING: You cannot replace any large critical parts.

For instance:
A. if you have a damaged differential housing. Let’s say the diff case is cracked. If you get another differential housing from a donor transmission..…you need to bring with it….the pinion shaft, with its gear and shim and at a minimum the ring gear (the whole differential would be better)…AND….the differential housing with the pinion carrier shim.

Why?....because each case casting and the pinion carrier casting is slightly different in its casting and machine work. The pinion carrier is set by shim to match the differential housing. You still may have to do some small adjusting work to the countershaft gear cluster thrust shims in your gear section….but taking the whole differential housing, ring, pinion and diff and pinion shaft along with the case…will allow you to make the rest of the transmission work with the differential section.

If you don’t have the whole differential and pinion shaft and carrier….only the outer case…..you will likely need the factory tool set to set the relationship between the ring gear and pinion gear.

B. If your differential case is fine….but you somehow need to replace the ring and pinion gear because of damage or wear…and you have a donor R&P set with no pinion shaft, shim set or outer case….you will need the factory tool set to adjust the relationship using the factory set-up markings on the ring gear.
Ray[/b]
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raygreenwood
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Joined: November 24, 2008
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 09, 2016 1:33 pm    Post subject: Re: 411/412 004 four speed trans rebuild (new 12-7 @ 12:51 pm) Reply with quote

Update 4-9-2016

OK…so it’s time for an update. It’s been a while. Between funding, parts being made by another excellent type 4 owner (I’ll get to those later) and fabricating tools.

By the way lhd_service…thank you for the excellent differential tool set offer…which I plan to buy soon but cannot afford until May or June…so I must proceed with what I have on hand.

For the moment…let’s finish the transmission strip down.

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So we are down to removing the shaft to case bushing ring. Notice the snap ring in the picture.

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This is not a tight snap ring. It’s just insurance against movement

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Remove it by peeling it off.

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Put it someplace safe and do not lose it!

IMPORTANT NOTE: In the Haynes manual they speak of using two methods: #1 a long arm puller or #2 using hardwood hammer handles to lever the ring off.

Having used both…I will tell you that the only ring I have ever broken…and I have broken one…was from using a long armed puller. These rings are one TIGHT!

The twin hardwood hammer handles with a small amount of heat applied to the outer rim of the ring works every time. However…not having any hardwood hammer handles I could risk breaking….I first tried some cheap fiberglass harbor freight hammer handles….I snapped two of them you can see in the background.

I used two metal tools and put nylon scrap underneath them to not damage the case edge. I have light scratches on the case edge but nothing else. These will smooth out no problem.
You will literally have to put the case on flat ground on wood and stand on the handles to pop this part loose.
And….no you cannot proceed without removing this part. Try to avoid getting it at an angle.

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This did the final trick.

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Notice the two raised lugs at 180° apart and the corresponding notches in the pinion carrier housing

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Light scratches on the case…no big deal.

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The differential side bearing tool. Later I will post how I made this. I drew out the 24 point pattern after measuring the bearing hub, then from a scrap piece of ½” thick mild steel plate (use ¼” or even 1/8” plate its plenty…but ½” is what I had on hand)…..I cut the plate into a circle that was larger than the 24 point pattern with a cheap bi-metal hole saw.

Then used my angle grinder and a cut-off wheel to notch along the line to make the teeth. File to fit.

It’s nowhere near perfect but has PLENTY of tooth contact. The clamped it down and used another hole saw slightly larger than the pinion shaft diameter and cut out the center.
Then I bought a cheap socket of the correct OD to fit decent in the center….ground the chrome off the outer edge of the socket….cleaned both parts with acetone ….heat them to about 400F with a propane torch and then welded them together with my little mig-welder. Works perfectly.

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This ugly looking tool is was made the same way. It’s ugly but works like a charm. It fits the pinion carrier adjusting lock ring.
I used a 1/4” piece of steel plate I had that was just wide enough. Same production method as the larger tool…but I used cheap galvanized steel pipe and coupling to make an extender that fits over the 10”-12” of the pinion shaft that will be sticking up in your way (yes I ground off the zinc in the welding areas first).

My previous tools for both of these from eons ago…were made from old oil field open end wrenches with three pieces of key stock welded into the faces that allowed me to turn the pinion and side bearing adjusters. They worked decent…but slipped once in a while and were knuckle busters.
At some point for historical reference I will post pictures of those too.

VERY VERY VERY IMPORTANT NOTES BEFORE PROCEEDING!
OK. Before we go any further we have to understand what MUST be measured and recorded. In most ways this differential is no different than most other ACVW in what dimensions must be known…but its very different in respect to the fact that you cannot measure these dimensions as easily because of interference from the pinion carrier.

So….you will have to get parts as clean as possible….and carefully remove the differential while keeping exact track of the bearing adjusters….and then remove the pinion carrier….without disassembling the carrier body (for the time being).

Once these are out of the way of each other…..you will be making some measuring fixtures….and then re-install each assembly (the pinion carrier and the differential)…..ONE AT A TIME! It does not matter which one you start with.

Then we will finally install them both together again to measure the lash between ring and pinion.
If you have a fixture for lash already….you “could” measure lash while everything is still together….but since 99% of those working on this transmission do not have fixturing….it’s easier to take it apart…make the tooling and then put it back together. This also insures the bearings are as clean as possible….and will then also allow us to use pattern marking paste for another bench mark.

But to measure pinion gear distance from centerline and ring gear distance from centerline….it’s easier to have them out to do them one at a time.
These are what we need to measure:

1. With the differential in the case but pinion carrier and shaft out of the case: you will measure the distance of the ring gear from the pinion shaft centerline.
Since in most cases the transmission you are working on should hopefully be an “operable” transmission and not a basket case cobbled together….you will assume that unless you have horrible differential side bearing wear that this adjustment is at least close.

You can actually pick a spot, make a fixture than can be removed and exactly replaced with the measuring tool (either a dial indicator or micrometer)…..measure from any fixed point on the case…it does not have to be the pinion shaft centerline…..and find the axial location of the ring gear.

In this case I am using the machined case parting line as the reference point for a jig fixture. Unless you damage it…it will not change.
When you put new side bearings on the differential…..you will use the same tool mounted at this same fixed point to find out if the new bearings have moved the ring gear closer to the pinion shaft centerline or farther away. You are simply using this method to find out where in space the ring gear is…BEFORE you change the factory preload setting or replace bearings.

2. You will need to measure the distance of the pinion gear from the centerline of the differential ring gear: In the factory tool set it has a mandrel that fits in place of the differential that allows a dial indicator to sit on the centerline and measure through a hole in the bottom…to the top of the pinion gear face.

Again….you can pick any fixed point to measure this distance from. It does not have to be the differential centerline. It can be…as noted before…from a fixed point like the case parting line.

All you are trying to find out for now…is how far the pinion gear is from A FIXED POINT. You are finding out its CURRENT location before you alter the pre-load or replace the bearings.

When you put new bearings on the pinion shaft….and measure from this same fixed point with the same tool starting from the same position…..you will see if the distance of the pinion gear to your fixed measuring point…has grown…or shrunk…and by how much.
This will tell you exactly how much to add or subtract from the shim…which is the only adjuster for this measurement.

3. Ring and pinion gear lash and contact pattern: From the other two measurements you know where the ring and pinion gears are in a three dimensional space…..with reference to a repeatable benchmark. Because of that you can remove and install them repeatedly and get them back to the same starting relationship.

The gear backlash and tooth contact pattern measurement will tell you whether the current relationship between the gears is correct or not.

NOTE: The option is yours……if you find that at this stage…before you have replaced or altered anything……if you find that the ring gear is too far away from the pinion shaft and is creating excessive lash and a tooth contact pattern that is off….you can correct this with the bearing adjusters.

Usually if the lash in a used transmission is due to bearing wear. A small amount is due to normal gear face wear. Because the lash may become normal or better when you install new bearings…..I would recommend NOT altering anything until AFTER you replace the bearings and set the preload.
THIS IS JUST PRE-DISASSEMBLY MEASUREMENTS.

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The right side adjuster. It has no markings. So…either it’s never been apart or it was marked by something removable when they did it.

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I added a case reference line, a punch mark for starting point and labeled the parts right and left…which you MUST do.

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The left side had no markings either

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Removing the side adjusters which hold the outer bearing races

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Record the EXACT number of turns and partial turns it required for that bearing adjuster to be removed and write it down in a place where you cannot lose it. In this case its written on the garage wall and in my notebook.

NOTE: What you want to do is remove the adjusters so that you can slip the differential to one side away from the pinion carrier. Removing the adjuster from the ring gear side of the differential will allow you to move the differential out of the way enough to remove the pinion carrier…but you need to remove the other adjuster to get the differential out of the case…so it’s easier to just remove both now.

NOTE: for those with the hideout (in my opinion) philosophy of saving good condition differential bearings because they seem decent and have to be better than what’s available ….which is dangerous in transmission this rare……look carefully. These bearings are beyond the pale.

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These are left and right bearing races…..notice the roughness?

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These are the bearings. Look carefully at the lines of wear in the center section versus the end that had no race contact.

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Next….remove the five 15mm nuts that hold the pinion carrier.

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There are three points where you will feel an overlap of the cast iron outer hub that you can get a small nail bar, pry bar or large screwdriver behind to lever the pinion carrier out.

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Proceed slowly alternating. When the cover is flush with the studs. The pinion carrier should pull out. Careful not to chatter it against the ring gear teeth.

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Here is the pinion carrier on the bench. DO NOT DISASSEMBLE IT YET. Put it aside carefully for the moment.

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Here is the view into the case.

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Here is the pinion gear spacing shim and o-ring…TAKE GOOD CARE OF THESE!

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Also…this lip is where the outer pinion gear cover separates……is pressed on…to the pinion carrier. The bearing, race and pinion inner spacer shim is under here. DO NOT YET DISASSEMBLE THIS!

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Push the differential to the side…..

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Tilt and lift it out being careful not to dent the threads or bearings.

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Looking into the case you can see debris. This is bearing or race material. Either from the current bearings or from a previous set. I will not know until I inspect the pinion bearings.
A little bit of this is brass probably from synchros….but much f this is bearing material…not brass.

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Be sure you find and capture the spacers between the CV hub and differential housing. Keep them separated per side and do not lose them.

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Measuring Jig plates: I am using a product called Mic 6 aluminum. Its unhardened, stress relieved pre-machined jig making plate. It is machined flat and parallel on both sides to within .015” per foot......which is plenty flat and parallel for making a jig plate since the measuring tool locations will be FIXED......meaning once you decide where you want the micrometer or dial indicator to be.......you will drill holes and add clamp bolts so that the measurkmg tool always goes back on in the exact spot.....and drill holes with guide pins so that the jig plate always goes back onto the case in the exact same position and locks down.
It comes in numerous thickness and width and has a plastic protective film on both sides.

A piece big enough to make nice jigs is about $20 from McMaster Carr. I am also using an 8mm x 1.25 center punch marking set to mark locations for precise drilling and will be using dowel pins for locations. I will be making two jig plates. These will allow repeatable and removable mountings for micrometer and dial indicator to take the measurements we need for differential ring and pinion bearing replacement.

This is aside from the torque/rolling resistance readings we need for bearing pre-load and for the adjustments internal to the differential…those are another chapter.

Ray
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