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Magnaflow Orange Co. CA 76-79 Buses & 80-82 Vanagons CAT
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SGKent Premium Member
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2015 9:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Update - Magnaflow called this morning. They found out they cannot delete those models for just one type car or it deletes the models for all cars, e.g, they cannot tell CARB it fits all but doesn't fit all so they are going to build a bus exhaust, and I've made arrangements to send them a working 1975 - 1978 stock exhaust.

I do not have a late 1979 California Cat double flanged shell, and I would like something made that could fit both 1975 - 1978 and 1979 - 1981 Federal, then with a weld on flange work maybe also work for the California models. If anyone has a used 1979 California double flanged shell they can let go of please contact me. It will not be used on a driving car and will be used only for a mockup so we can make CARB happy. I will try to get everything back but life doesn't always work out that way.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2015 11:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That is great news! Any word on pricing?
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2015 12:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SGKent wrote:
If anyone has a used 1979 California double flanged shell they can let go of please contact me. It will not be used on a driving car and will be used only for a mockup so we can make CARB happy. I will try to get everything back but life doesn't always work out that way.



I'll go digging in the garage and see if I can find my 79CA shell for ya......
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2015 4:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BUSBOSS wrote:
That is great news! Any word on pricing?


not until we have something.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2015 4:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am also looking for a reasonable condition used stock muffler with the slip fit, and a tailpipe - or I'd buy a new German one if someone has one. All I can find new is the Italian ANSA, or Chinese / Brazilian repops. I've got a spare cat, J tube and crossover. I am also trying to obtain a OEM VW stock shell. I've written someone who has an old 1975 one for sale. The cat can be bad but it cannot be aftermarket. We should be able to compare a stock one to the Emico style.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2015 6:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

airkooledchris wrote:
SGKent wrote:
If anyone has a used 1979 California double flanged shell they can let go of please contact me. It will not be used on a driving car and will be used only for a mockup so we can make CARB happy. I will try to get everything back but life doesn't always work out that way.



I'll go digging in the garage and see if I can find my 79CA shell for ya......



EDIT:

I found the one that came on my 79CA model when I bought it, and unfortunately it is stamped 039-131-701 and NOT 039-131-701A - which would have indicated it was specifically made for the California model.

From what I can tell, the CA and Federal 79 cats are equal in length.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2015 10:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

airkooledchris wrote:

EDIT:

I found the one that came on my 79CA model when I bought it, and unfortunately it is stamped 039-131-701 and NOT 039-131-701A - which would have indicated it was specifically made for the California model.

From what I can tell, the CA and Federal 79 cats are equal in length.


Chris, does your '79 CA cat have flanges on both ends or just one? According to the Bus-Boys excellent site, the "A" designation was indeed for the CA model whereas the non-"A" model was for all Federal busses '75 - 79 and Federal Vanagons. If yours has a flange at each end and fitted the CA exhaust, then perhaps the "A" just got left off the stamping.

It would be good to know whether the inlet and outlet ports of the CA model are aligned with one another or offset like the Federal model. I suspect they are aligned. This would be important to know from a manufacturing perspective.

Steve, I have a stock Federal Vanagon muffler and tailpipe that I can lend. They aren't original equipment, but the slip-fit of the muffler input to my Emico cat is pretty darn good.

Also, just musing here, but the junk yards always cut the catalytic converters off of the cars before they go out to the yard because they're prohibited from reselling them. Presumably CARB or DMV has a program whereby the old cats get directed to an authorized re-cycler. Just wondering whether it might be possible to request that a gutted sample of a particular cat be made available for templating purposes?
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 12, 2015 4:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SlowLane wrote:


It would be good to know whether the inlet and outlet ports of the CA model are aligned with one another or offset like the Federal model. I suspect they are aligned.


I have a 79CA empty shell. It is stamped 039-131-701A. It has flanges on both ends that are offset from center but the flanges are in line with one another. I'll send Steve a PM and let him know that he can have it if he needs it. Smile
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 12, 2015 9:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

porky79 wrote:
SlowLane wrote:


It would be good to know whether the inlet and outlet ports of the CA model are aligned with one another or offset like the Federal model. I suspect they are aligned.


I have a 79CA empty shell. It is stamped 039-131-701A. It has flanges on both ends that are offset from center but the flanges are in line with one another. I'll send Steve a PM and let him know that he can have it if he needs it. Smile



Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 13, 2015 9:00 am    Post subject: Re: Magnaflow Orange Co. CA 76 - 79 Buses & 80 - 82 Vana Reply with quote

Chris - porky79 is sending his. Yours looks like a different part number. If it is original can you spare it?

I have a NOS JTube, NOS Crossover, and the Emico catalytic. Yesterday I ordered a NOS German muffler, strap, and tail pipe plus the assortment of gaskets. This should complete the 1975 - 1978 & 1979 Federal System as well as the air cooled Federal Vanagon. I am hoping that whatever they make for these can be easily modified by adding a second flange so it will work on the 1979 California bus and air cooled California Vanagons. My vision is a cat back system for the 75-78 and 79 Federal buses.

Magnaflow will still need a local STOCK exhaust with crossover on a 75-78 bus there in Rancho Santa Margarita to fit it when it is complete. I'd rather not bring my bus all the way down just to do that but can if no others are around.
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 13, 2015 10:01 am    Post subject: Re: Magnaflow Orange Co. CA 76 - 79 Buses & 80 - 82 Vana Reply with quote

ALSO DOES ANYONE HAVE A STOCK 75-78 & 79 Federal ORIGINAL VW CAT used or shell lying around they don't need? I really want to be sure Magnaflow gets to see every possibility when they do this. This is what the factory unit looks like for 75-78 & 79 Fed. 039-131-701 or 039-131-701 X

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 13, 2015 1:08 pm    Post subject: Re: Magnaflow Orange Co. CA 76 - 79 Buses & 80 - 82 Vana Reply with quote

SGKent wrote:
Chris - porky79 is sending his. Yours looks like a different part number. If it is original can you spare it?


I believe it to be original, but it IS missing the A at the end of the part number. This thing has also been welded up and is completely empty inside. I would hate for them to use it as an example of an original when I can't say 100% that it's still the same shape that the original was in (due to it being welded, they could have swapped over the middle/body of it just to keep the part number for smog purposes.)

That said if you think it would be useful, I can send it no problem. On the coast here I don't have to smog again and if I did - I would likely need a working CAT to pass anyway and not this empty shell.

The one porky79 has is correct for a 79CA bus, but isn't technically legal to use in California as it isn't CARB compliant. - But it should be a correct shape/size.
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 13, 2015 2:44 pm    Post subject: Re: Magnaflow Orange Co. CA 76 - 79 Buses & 80 - 82 Vana Reply with quote

airkooledchris wrote:
SGKent wrote:
Chris - porky79 is sending his. Yours looks like a different part number. If it is original can you spare it?


I believe it to be original, but it IS missing the A at the end of the part number. This thing has also been welded up and is completely empty inside. I would hate for them to use it as an example of an original when I can't say 100% that it's still the same shape that the original was in (due to it being welded, they could have swapped over the middle/body of it just to keep the part number for smog purposes.)

That said if you think it would be useful, I can send it no problem. On the coast here I don't have to smog again and if I did - I would likely need a working CAT to pass anyway and not this empty shell.

The one porky79 has is correct for a 79CA bus, but isn't technically legal to use in California as it isn't CARB compliant. - But it should be a correct shape/size.

Hi Chris. If we take Bus-Boys catalytic converter information to be golden:
Bus-Boys.com wrote:
***039-131-701 Bus, All 50 States, 1975 to 1978, Bus, 49 States, 1979 & Vanagon, 49 States, 1980 to 1983

***039-131-701A Bus, California Only, 1979 <-- porky's part number

***071-131-701 Vanagon, California Only, Air Cooled, 1980 to 1983 <-- your part number

***433-131-701D Vanagon, Water Cooled, 1983 to 1985

Then it looks like yours is for the CA-spec Vanagon. The fact that it fits into the same location on your '79 indicates that the 039-131-701A and the 071-131-701 are interchangable. I suggest that it would be valuable for an example of each of these part numbers to be available for Magnaflow to examine.

FWIW, I've seen suggestions, rumours and hearsay that the later Vanagon converters also have the same form factor as the '79-'83 CA-spec converters and may fit the application. The Emico catalog shows their converter models 133281 and 133251 with flanges at each end and an overall length of 11.5 inches. If the flanges are offset and clocked at the right angle, it might just work (no, not CARB compliant, but it would give owners of these vehicles outside of CA and NY another option).
Here's a couple of screenshots from the Emico catalog for these two cats:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


And here is one of a cat for an Audi 100 / 5000 that I thought would be close to perfect for the CA bus/van, but I think the flanges are clocked wrong. Judging from the Bentley manual, it looks like the flanges would need to be rotated about 60 degrees to be correct for a bus/van.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Again, not CARB-compliant, but possibly useful for owners of CA-spec 79-83's outside CA or NY.

For comparison, here is the datasheet for the Emico 133257 that many of us with 49-state vehicles hung our hopes on before it was yanked away in California. Note the orientation of the outlet pipe in relation to the inlet flange:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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Last edited by SlowLane on Sun Nov 15, 2015 12:15 pm; edited 2 times in total
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 15, 2015 9:21 am    Post subject: Re: Magnaflow Orange Co. CA 76 - 79 Buses & 80 - 82 Vana Reply with quote

SGKent wrote:
ALSO DOES ANYONE HAVE A STOCK 75-78 & 79 Federal ORIGINAL VW CAT used or shell lying around they don't need? I really want to be sure Magnaflow gets to see every possibility when they do this. This is what the factory unit looks like for 75-78 & 79 Fed. 039-131-701 or 039-131-701 X

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


I don't remember them looking like that, hmm esp with the 039 number which means originally it was a 914 2.0L part. Those had the same flange on both ends!
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 15, 2015 11:54 am    Post subject: Re: Magnaflow Orange Co. CA 76 - 79 Buses & 80 - 82 Vana Reply with quote

Bleyseng wrote:

I don't remember them looking like that, hmm esp with the 039 number which means originally it was a 914 2.0L part. Those had the same flange on both ends!

The flanges have to be in line for the 79CA Bus. The Emico cat for the Audi (133280) is a fit. It is the same length (11-1/2Ē) as the OEM cat and the flanges are oriented correctly. The bolt circle on the OEM is 78 mm but the holes are big enough with ľĒ bolts to make the Emico work. That Emico cat is the PC-1 cat that is on my bus now. Yeah, itís my bus nowÖ got my son another car because we canít legally drive the bus until this smog issue gets resolved.
SGKent wrote:
Magnaflow called this morning. They found out they cannot delete those models for just one type car or it deletes the models for all cars, e.g, they cannot tell CARB it fits all but doesn't fit all Ö

Hi Steve. As I told you, I wrote MagnaFlow regarding this and requested that they inform CARB about the fit issue. MagnaFlow should never have told CARB that their cat would fit a Bus or Vanagon, Federal or CA. and it will be causing more grief for bus/van owners soon.
SGKent wrote:
I would like something made that could fit both 1975 - 1978 and 1979 - 1981 Federal, then with a weld on flange maybe also work for the California models.

With the offset ends as in the picture you posted, I donít see how a weld-on flange would work for CA. The flanges have to be in line for CA. BTW, Chrisís pic of the Vanagon cat looks like somebody just pulled it out of the river compared to the stock cat I have. Iíll be sending the cat to you soon. Here are a couple of pics for now :
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 15, 2015 12:00 pm    Post subject: Re: Magnaflow Orange Co. CA 76 - 79 Buses & 80 - 82 Vana Reply with quote

Bleyseng wrote:
SGKent wrote:
ALSO DOES ANYONE HAVE A STOCK 75-78 & 79 Federal ORIGINAL VW CAT used or shell lying around they don't need? I really want to be sure Magnaflow gets to see every possibility when they do this. This is what the factory unit looks like for 75-78 & 79 Fed. 039-131-701 or 039-131-701 X

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


I don't remember them looking like that, hmm esp with the 039 number which means originally it was a 914 2.0L part. Those had the same flange on both ends!

That stubby-looking cat is the correct oxidation-only (aka. "two-way") cat that was stock on all 75-78 and 49-state 79-83 aircoooled busses/vans. The picture Steve provided is the best I've ever seen of this cat. It closely matches the one pictured on page 26.2 of the Vanagon Bentley.

It would be very cool if Magnaflow actually offered a 2-way cat for the vehicles that were designed for one, but it's highly unlikely.
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 15, 2015 4:31 pm    Post subject: Re: Magnaflow Orange Co. CA 76 - 79 Buses & 80 - 82 Vana Reply with quote

porky79 wrote:
Bleyseng wrote:

I don't remember them looking like that, hmm esp with the 039 number which means originally it was a 914 2.0L part. Those had the same flange on both ends!

The flanges have to be in line for the 79CA Bus. The Emico cat for the Audi (133280) is a fit. It is the same length (11-1/2Ē) as the OEM cat and the flanges are oriented correctly. The bolt circle on the OEM is 78 mm but the holes are big enough with ľĒ bolts to make the Emico work. That Emico cat is the PC-1 cat that is on my bus now. Yeah, itís my bus nowÖ got my son another car because we canít legally drive the bus until this smog issue gets resolved.
SGKent wrote:
Magnaflow called this morning. They found out they cannot delete those models for just one type car or it deletes the models for all cars, e.g, they cannot tell CARB it fits all but doesn't fit all Ö

Hi Steve. As I told you, I wrote MagnaFlow regarding this and requested that they inform CARB about the fit issue. MagnaFlow should never have told CARB that their cat would fit a Bus or Vanagon, Federal or CA. and it will be causing more grief for bus/van owners soon.
SGKent wrote:
I would like something made that could fit both 1975 - 1978 and 1979 - 1981 Federal, then with a weld on flange maybe also work for the California models.

With the offset ends as in the picture you posted, I donít see how a weld-on flange would work for CA. The flanges have to be in line for CA. BTW, Chrisís pic of the Vanagon cat looks like somebody just pulled it out of the river compared to the stock cat I have. Iíll be sending the cat to you soon. Here are a couple of pics for now :
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.
[/img]


That is the cat I remember from my 914 2.0L when it had one plus it was on my 75 Dasher SW that I smashed the inside out of when it clogged for the 3 rd time out of warranty.
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 15, 2015 5:23 pm    Post subject: Re: Magnaflow Orange Co. CA 76 - 79 Buses & 80 - 82 Vana Reply with quote

porky79 wrote:
BTW, Chrisís pic of the Vanagon cat looks like somebody just pulled it out of the river compared to the stock cat I have. Iíll be sending the cat to you soon. Here are a couple of pics for now :
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



It might not be as crusty looking as the one above, but it doesn't mean it was pulled from a river. It's just a lot cleaner looking, not a big deal.
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 15, 2015 9:41 pm    Post subject: Re: Magnaflow Orange Co. CA 76 - 79 Buses & 80 - 82 Vana Reply with quote

Very Happy I just meant it looked bloated compared to the one I have. Thats all. Smile
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 15, 2015 10:43 pm    Post subject: Re: Magnaflow Orange Co. CA 76 - 79 Buses & 80 - 82 Vana Reply with quote

Hey now, both shells are valuable, especially if they can be compared side-by-side to confirm that the only difference is in the part number.

Really, it's something of a miracle that any of these old cats are still around after 35+ years, even as empty shells.

And sorry, I didn't notice that the bolt circle on the Emico Audi 5000 cat was so much larger than the VW cat. Pity about that.
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