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Magnaflow Orange Co. CA 76-79 Buses & 80-82 Vanagons CAT
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SGKent Premium Member
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2016 7:50 am    Post subject: Re: Magnaflow Orange Co. CA 76 - 79 Buses & 80 - 82 Vanagons Reply with quote

Wasted youth wrote:
Stories like this box me in while I try to teach my kids to always be honest and never cheat. Laughing


and that is the real problem. It is commonly referred to in Government as over reach. We pass laws that can't and won't be enforced because the government has no business being there. Those laws simply make it harder for the honest person to function. For example - let's say you were on vacation in PA all the way from CA in your late California bay. Let's say the catalytic plugged up causing the car to die. Would California expect you to buy a catalytic from a shop in California and ship it to PA to be installed? My guess is that is unenforceable. So when you come home would you still be subject to the CARBII rules for cats sold in California? You bought and installed it in PA on vacation. PA has the say when in PA. Would the CA smog shop at smog time have to declare tampering and if so under what state laws? It wasn't tampering in PA where you were when it was replaced. If a CA smog shop did, and the referee went along how could a court agree with that - especially when you show the judge the wording of the law and a receipt from work done in PA? The law says cats sold in California - not driven in California. It is also illegal to sell a used cat in California. What if you bought and installed a used one in Wyoming on vacation because that is all that was available? Could California refuse to honor repairs done legally in the other state simply because California laws are more stringent? This starts getting into the area of states regulating what their residents can and can not do when the residents are somewhere else in the world. That by definition is the domain of the Federal government.

So Fred who lives in Los Angeles knows his cat is going bad and while on vacation to see the Grand Canyon he stops in Phoenix 6 hours from LA to have the cat changed in Arizona with a 49 state cat so the old one won't do more damage as it plugs up. Can he claim that the cat is exempt from CARB II rules. I suspect so and that a court would agree. Think of it this way - if Arizona had a set of rules that forced you to use their catalytic, and California had another set of rules, whose rules do you follow when driving between states? That sounds like a Federal issue. Again - the honest person gets all bound up, but the person who pushes gray areas simply plans a trip to the Grand Canyon when he/she needs to install that new Cat, (and probably keeps the receipt just in case push comes to shove.) I've written and spoken with ARB on this law because as long as California is the only state that uses these rules on pre OBD cars, it puts a real burden on Californians to meet it.

Quote:
The ARB adopted revised regulations and evaluation procedures in October 2007 for the approval of new aftermarket catalytic converters sold in California. The requirements apply to all new aftermarket converters produced for sale or sold in California after January 1, 2009. The requirements also sunset provisions allowing the sale of certified used catalytic converters beginning July 10, 2008. This means that no used converter can be legally advertised for sale, sold, or installed in California after this date.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2016 1:27 pm    Post subject: Re: Magnaflow Orange Co. CA 76 - 79 Buses & 80 - 82 Vanagons Reply with quote

Since this story is still going i thought I'd add a little more info I have collected since my smog troubles (and Magnaflow problem) began last October Smile
I spoke to Barry at the DMV about how it is my vehicle is classified as a truck. He told me this about the letter codes printed on the registration certificate:

Type LIC = 11 = Passenger Vehicle (not a truck - his words)
Type VEH = 12s = Used vehicle when registered
Body Type = SW = Station Wagon
VLF Class = AC = This is a code related to the value of the vehicle when purchased. As Barry explained, in my case AC is one of the lowest value vehicles hence lower annual fee schedule. If the ALF was ZE for instance, as it would be for a Maserati (his words again), then the annual fee schedule is entirely different.

I think that I have already shared enough of the drama that I went through to get my Bus smogged but I'd like to share what Barry called his theory as to why the ARB is calling my car a truck :
"Back in the 70's, someone at the ARB looked at the car and said "it's a van it must be put into the truck category""

I know this is long winded but it is totally related so please bear with Very Happy

SlowLane wrote:
That still doesn't make much sense. [...] let's hope the new E.O. identifies it as a T1 cat.


This Magnaflow thing is more of a bandaid, not sure if it has to be T1

[email protected] wrote:
SGKent wrote:
Technically a bus shows as a car at DMV (or used to) but all were IMPORTED by VW as trucks, and that is why it shows as a TRUCK with ARB standards..

I thought they were sold as station wagons to circumvent the "chicken tax". but, it's CA so who the hell knows...


Technically, according to Barry at the CA DMV this vehicle is a passenger car as the door sticker shows ...

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


And here is a shot of my "Special" sticker I got from the BAR after several return trips Very Happy

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


BTW the CAT listed on my special sticker is a PC1 with a withdrawn EO Very Happy

And on it goes Very Happy
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Wasted youth wrote:

While this is unpleasant, it is a great learning experience, so I hope I can contribute something useful for next guy.
itskyle wrote:
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"The Precious" 79 CA Bay Window BUS runnin hot @ 75 or 80
Vincent ~ 84 Vanagon GL 95% Original
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2016 1:46 pm    Post subject: Re: Magnaflow Orange Co. CA 76 - 79 Buses & 80 - 82 Vanagons Reply with quote

Porky 79 - Someone here works for a sister agency in the same building as ARB. On their own time they sent many letters and had many conversations with ARB, as well as their Senator, the Governor's office, and their Assembly Person about accepting the PC-1 cat for VW buses etc. They did this because SlowLane was flunked by a BAR referee for having a PC-1 cat and written up for tampering because it was on the air-cooled Vanagon. The reason you got that sticker is because of all the letters that were written on your behalf by others (plural) before you even knew you had a problem. When other folks here go into a smog shop and need a cat, they have to be able to buy one that meets the current ARB EO. That is why Magnaflow is involved. They have one they say that fits when it does not, and it is easier to make one fit than remove the one that they sell 10,000+ of a year. Really glad it worked out for you.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2016 6:16 pm    Post subject: Re: Magnaflow Orange Co. CA 76 - 79 Buses & 80 - 82 Vanagons Reply with quote

I suppose that same person you are referring to spent at least half of the last 20 years "working" with a "sister agency" because it's apparent to me that the other half was spent posting remarks on the Samba, many of which are about topics that have already been spoken on... Why would you attack me for sharing information??? If you did in fact do all of those things, then I applaud you. Thank You. My heart goes out... Do you have a special sticker, if not, why not?
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Wasted youth wrote:

While this is unpleasant, it is a great learning experience, so I hope I can contribute something useful for next guy.
itskyle wrote:
"It's ugly, but it gets you there." Nuff said. Kyle


"The Precious" 79 CA Bay Window BUS runnin hot @ 75 or 80
Vincent ~ 84 Vanagon GL 95% Original
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2016 6:45 pm    Post subject: Re: Magnaflow Orange Co. CA 76 - 79 Buses & 80 - 82 Vanagons Reply with quote

BTW, you went off your own topic. I mean no harm. I want the Truth and only the Truth if that is ever possible Very Happy Cheers ! ... Thank you again Very Happy And now, back to Magnaflow !
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Wasted youth wrote:

While this is unpleasant, it is a great learning experience, so I hope I can contribute something useful for next guy.
itskyle wrote:
"It's ugly, but it gets you there." Nuff said. Kyle


"The Precious" 79 CA Bay Window BUS runnin hot @ 75 or 80
Vincent ~ 84 Vanagon GL 95% Original
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2016 6:48 pm    Post subject: Re: Magnaflow Orange Co. CA 76 - 79 Buses & 80 - 82 Vanagons Reply with quote

Quote:
Why would you attack me for sharing information??

no one attacked you. Why do you think I attacked you? I am sorry if something I said offended you.

Quote:
Do you have a special sticker, if not, why not?

Because I don't need one - my bus is legal with the cat that came with it. It predates the law change and is still very good. If I decided to use the newer Emico spare PC1 again instead of that one then I would need a sticker too. Both cats have passed smog but the later Emico would need a sticker now since ARB brought that new database online that started all this.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2016 7:31 pm    Post subject: Re: Magnaflow Orange Co. CA 76 - 79 Buses & 80 - 82 Vanagons Reply with quote

Right on. Well if anyone reading here needs a sticker I can tell you who to talk to. I told him I would not bombard him with requests but that is all relative... bombarding ... 10 requests, 100, 1000, ... PM for names and numbers Very Happy CHeers !
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Wasted youth wrote:

While this is unpleasant, it is a great learning experience, so I hope I can contribute something useful for next guy.
itskyle wrote:
"It's ugly, but it gets you there." Nuff said. Kyle


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Vincent ~ 84 Vanagon GL 95% Original
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[email protected]
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2016 7:40 pm    Post subject: Re: Magnaflow Orange Co. CA 76 - 79 Buses & 80 - 82 Vanagons Reply with quote

SGKent wrote:
When other folks here go into a smog shop and need a cat, they have to be able to buy one that meets the current ARB EO..


so, just explain something to me, because I just don't understand....

you vin sticker/emissions decal on the car (vw or otherwise) goes on to say:

blaa fuckin blaa, so on and so forth this vehicle meets emission requirements applicable to the date of manufacture shown above

so, how is it that CA has the "right" to make you comply to "current" regs? that in itself is "tampering" with what was deemed ok back in 19xx

not trying to be argumentative, just want to know the reasoning. or is it one of those "because they can" kind of deals?
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my reason for switching to subaru is my german car was turning chinese so i said fuck it and went japanese.......
[email protected] wrote:
most VW enthusiasts are stuck in 80's price land.

Jake Raby wrote:
Thanks for the correction. I used to be a nice guy, then I ruined it by exposing myself to the public.

Brian wrote:
Also the fact that people are agreeing with Skills, it's a turn of events for samba history
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2016 8:23 pm    Post subject: Re: Magnaflow Orange Co. CA 76 - 79 Buses & 80 - 82 Vanagons Reply with quote

[email protected] wrote:


...so, how is it that CA has the "right" to make you comply to "current" regs? that in itself is "tampering" with what was deemed ok back in 19xx

not trying to be argumentative, just want to know the reasoning. or is it one of those "because they can" kind of deals?


You downeastahs got a lotta nerve questionin' Kalifornia! Laughing Nice observance of the total crappola parade, Skills. How about this rabbit hole:

The current regulations mandate the vehicle comply with YOM regulations. Vehicle must comply with obsolete technology by applying unauthorized and improved emission equipment. Good luck, we're all counting on you.

Sorry for cluttering up this thread, Steve! I'll yank this post if you like. Laughing
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2016 10:01 pm    Post subject: Re: Magnaflow Orange Co. CA 76 - 79 Buses & 80 - 82 Vanagons Reply with quote

[email protected] wrote:

so, just explain something to me, because I just don't understand....
you vin sticker/emissions decal on the car (vw or otherwise) goes on to say:
blaa fuckin blaa, so on and so forth this vehicle meets emission requirements applicable to the date of manufacture shown above
so, how is it that CA has the "right" to make you comply to "current" regs? that in itself is "tampering" with what was deemed ok back in 19xx
not trying to be argumentative, just want to know the reasoning. or is it one of those "because they can" kind of deals?



BlaaBlaaafuckinHaaaaaaaaaaaaaa !!

Welcome to California Very Happy
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Wasted youth wrote:

While this is unpleasant, it is a great learning experience, so I hope I can contribute something useful for next guy.
itskyle wrote:
"It's ugly, but it gets you there." Nuff said. Kyle


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Vincent ~ 84 Vanagon GL 95% Original
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2016 5:25 am    Post subject: Re: Magnaflow Orange Co. CA 76 - 79 Buses & 80 - 82 Vanagons Reply with quote

is it really that bad? Shocked

so glad I don't live there....
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gprudenciop wrote:

my reason for switching to subaru is my german car was turning chinese so i said fuck it and went japanese.......
[email protected] wrote:
most VW enthusiasts are stuck in 80's price land.

Jake Raby wrote:
Thanks for the correction. I used to be a nice guy, then I ruined it by exposing myself to the public.

Brian wrote:
Also the fact that people are agreeing with Skills, it's a turn of events for samba history
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2016 7:27 am    Post subject: Re: Magnaflow Orange Co. CA 76 - 79 Buses & 80 - 82 Vanagons Reply with quote

I lived in the PRC in the 80s through the early 90s. for many years only LA & SF required smog checks. then somebody pencil whipped a new statute and everybody must get smogged.

people borrowed engines to get their car legal until they could rustle up the funds to replace their hot rodded engine. I had to get emissions controls for my MGB from New Hampshire because all the closer ones were bought up already. People with vacuum advance distributor on ACVWs had to take them in the house overnight because people with 009s would steal them because all of the originals were in a landfill somewhere.

my advice, learned the hard way, is to keep your car smog legal regardless of current local conditions, because things can change with a stroke of a pen. build a stroker with dual carbs if you must, but keep a 1600 DP handy as a spare. never throw away functional equipment if you upgrade, because a mandatory downgrade can occur at any time.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2016 8:21 am    Post subject: Re: Magnaflow Orange Co. CA 76 - 79 Buses & 80 - 82 Vanagons Reply with quote

Quote:
so, just explain something to me, because I just don't understand....


My personal understanding - I can't speak for how ARB / the State looks at it.

The way it works is that the smog in some parts of California was so bad your lungs were black as if from smoking and your eyes constantly watered. I had a client in Los Angeles once tell me that driving and living in LA was the slowest form of suicide there was. He had lung problems from the dirty air and diesel fumes that was slowly killing him. The US Congress established the Clean Air and Clean Water Acts. California petitioned the US Government to establish slightly more strict rules and the US Government agreed to it because of the conditions out here. We are the world's 6th largest economy, and have about 1/8th the US population here. Except for the very top NW part of our state our climate is Mediterranean- like Southern France or Spain etc.

Right now, every car in California made in 1976 or later gets smogged. The cars from 1968 to 1976 are not exempt from smog - they just don't get tested. If a Highway Patrol officer pulled over for example a 1970 Mustang and saw that the engine had been altered and all the smog gear ripped off it, he could issue the owner a citation. That is true in many states. Many parts of Nevada and Arizona smog cars back to 1968. People here modify their 1971 buses but in reality they could be held accountable.

What happened about 5 or 6 years ago was that the BAR (Bureau of Automotive Repair), Dept of Consumer Affairs, State Senators and Assembly Persons, and Courts got worn out from all the customer complaints that went like this: "I took my car to a shop last year because it didn't pass smog. They put some parts in and charged me $500 (which is below the $600 threshold) and now a year later I am flunking smog again and another shop is telling me those parts have gone bad and have to be replaced again." Or - "I bought a remanufactured catalytic converter and passed smog, now it is bad again. You need to monitor these people."

That caused the California Air Resources Board to issue new regulations. Those regulations in part say that certain things like Catalytic Converters must last something like 70,000 miles and 7 years or something like that. In addition the manufacturer has to prove that the part has been tested at a valid laboratory to meet those standards. In the case of a catalytic then proof is shown to ARB and they issue a certificate which the number goes on the part. Without that number the part cannot be sold or shipped to California to be installed. Additionally the part must be verified when the car is smogged to keep the installers honest. Original parts are exempt. So if you go to VW, spend $1500 on a catalytic with VW's stamp then they don't have to get the certificate. In addition sale of remanufactured and used catalytic converters was outlawed. In many cases those parts were like the remanufactured steering box you bought. They weren't remanufactured at all - just cleaned up and re-boxed. It was a consumer protection law, not a smog law. The problem comes for folks like us who have this thing called an air cooled motor which is completely different than the water cooled cars that have standard exhausts. There are other stipulations - placement of O2 senders, catalytics etc., have to be within so many inches of where the originals were placed for fear exhaust temps might change performance of the part. It is a rather fair law protecting the average owner of a OBDC 1 or prior car however we are a special case. So - California is not holding us to a tighter standard than when the car was made. They are just telling the shops they can't use substandard parts when repairing the smog system. We all say that we need to hold the feet of these manufacturers to the fire to get better parts - that is what California did. My break is over - gotta run.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2016 9:13 am    Post subject: Re: Magnaflow Orange Co. CA 76 - 79 Buses & 80 - 82 Vanagons Reply with quote

[email protected] wrote:
is it really that bad? Shocked

so glad I don't live there....


It's not, but we spread the rumors online to keep the peckerheads out. Cool

Mal evolent wrote:
my advice, learned the hard way, is to keep your car smog legal regardless of current local conditions, because things can change with a stroke of a pen. build a stroker with dual carbs if you must, but keep a 1600 DP handy as a spare. never throw away functional equipment if you upgrade, because a mandatory downgrade can occur at any time.



This is pretty much how I feel. I really want a T4 2-liter JR engine in Mom's convertible bug, but we'll always have the 1500 laying around.

Robbie
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 07, 2016 2:15 am    Post subject: Re: Magnaflow Orange Co. CA 76 - 79 Buses & 80 - 82 Vanagons Reply with quote

asiab3 wrote:
[email protected] wrote:
is it really that bad? Shocked
so glad I don't live there....
It's not, but we spread the rumors online to keep the peckerheads out. Cool Robbie


I would totally stay on the MagnaFlow topic but dammit ! This is Fun Smile !

"Keep the Peckerheads Out" !!!!!!!!! If only! Smile
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Wasted youth wrote:

While this is unpleasant, it is a great learning experience, so I hope I can contribute something useful for next guy.
itskyle wrote:
"It's ugly, but it gets you there." Nuff said. Kyle


"The Precious" 79 CA Bay Window BUS runnin hot @ 75 or 80
Vincent ~ 84 Vanagon GL 95% Original
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2016 6:13 pm    Post subject: Re: Magnaflow Orange Co. CA 76 - 79 Buses & 80 - 82 Vanagons Reply with quote

got an e-mail that I'll have the Magnaflow part number tomorrow. It will be for sale by Magnaflow as soon as ARB posts the EO on their website. I suspect it will breathe better than any of the other units out there that are legal for our buses.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2016 11:56 am    Post subject: Re: Magnaflow Orange Co. CA 76 - 79 Buses & 80 - 82 Vanagons Reply with quote

SGKent wrote:
I'll have the Magnaflow part number tomorrow. It will be for sale by Magnaflow as soon as ARB posts the EO on their website.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2016 5:14 pm    Post subject: Re: Magnaflow Orange Co. CA 76 - 79 Buses & 80 - 82 Vanagons Reply with quote

SGKent wrote:
got an e-mail that I'll have the Magnaflow part number tomorrow. It will be for sale by Magnaflow as soon as ARB posts the EO on their website. I suspect it will breathe better than any of the other units out there that are legal for our buses.


I'm researching this topic with a view to importing a 76 Westy from out of state. I could only see Walker Universal CATs when searching ARB for a 76 'Transporter'. Are we still waiting for the ARB to update their databases?
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2016 9:14 pm    Post subject: Re: Magnaflow Orange Co. CA 76 - 79 Buses & 80 - 82 Vanagons Reply with quote

tommu wrote:
SGKent wrote:
got an e-mail that I'll have the Magnaflow part number tomorrow. It will be for sale by Magnaflow as soon as ARB posts the EO on their website. I suspect it will breathe better than any of the other units out there that are legal for our buses.


I'm researching this topic with a view to importing a 76 Westy from out of state. I could only see Walker Universal CATs when searching ARB for a 76 'Transporter'. Are we still waiting for the ARB to update their databases?


yes - you only need a cat for 1976 if it is a California bus originally. Federal does not require it but it will need a functional EGR and EVAP system among other items like functional FI.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2016 11:10 pm    Post subject: Re: Magnaflow Orange Co. CA 76 - 79 Buses & 80 - 82 Vanagons Reply with quote

SGKent wrote:
yes - you only need a cat for 1976 if it is a California bus originally. Federal does not require it but it will need a functional EGR and EVAP system among other items like functional FI.


This was originally a California Bus. Everything else seems to be there - except the CAB II cat. What would the best option right now to pass smog?

I looked up the VIN to check smog history but there were no results. I'm hoping it's already in the system.


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