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Busstom
Samba Member
Joined: November 23, 2014
Posts: 3853
Location: San Jose, CA
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 Posted: Tue Oct 27, 2015 6:48 am Post subject: Anyone using Vintage Speed's stainless headers/muffler? |
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1975 Campmobile, 1978 2L Hydraulic...
I'm dumping my rotting heater boxes, and planning to replace them with these:
http://vwparts.aircooled.net/Vintage-Speed-SS-Type-4-Headers-155-208-42SEJ-p/155-208-42ecj.htm
Of course, the matching <125 HP muffler will be used also (I want quiet).
Does anybody have any experience with these primary pipes with regard to fitment, finish, durability, etc?
My initial perception is win win all the way around. Overall investment is no different (or even less) than a stock 72-74 retrofit.
Thanks. |
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VWsArent4Hippies
Samba Member
Joined: April 13, 2005
Posts: 3079
Location: The Bull City
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Busstom
Samba Member
Joined: November 23, 2014
Posts: 3853
Location: San Jose, CA
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| Posted: Tue Oct 27, 2015 7:17 am Post subject: |
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| VWsArent4Hippies wrote: |
| Do it! |
Man those look sweet!!! Those boys at VS did their homework!
Fit looks great on that setup...don't suppose you have a video link with sound???  |
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wcfvw69 
Samba Purist
Joined: June 10, 2004
Posts: 13389
Location: Arizona
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| Posted: Tue Oct 27, 2015 8:26 am Post subject: |
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I've never used that muffler but many who have state they are loud. I think there's some youtube videos of them on running engines.
_________________
Contact me at [email protected]
Follow me on instagram @sparxwerksllc
Decades of VW and VW parts restoration experience.
The Samba member since 2004.
**Now rebuilding throttle bodies for VW's and Porsche's**
**Restored German Bosch distributors for sale or I can restore yours**
**Restored German Pierburg fuel pumps for sale or I can restore yours**
**Restored Porsche fuel pumps or I can restore yours**
**Restored Porsche distributors or I can restore yours** |
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Busstom
Samba Member
Joined: November 23, 2014
Posts: 3853
Location: San Jose, CA
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| Posted: Tue Oct 27, 2015 12:19 pm Post subject: |
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| wcfvw69 wrote: |
| I've never used that muffler but many who have state they are loud. |
To quote Astro: “Ruh roh!”
I was (am) hoping that muffler would be hushy, and not too bassy…I may have to stuff a bunch o’ mattresses in the back of my Bus to keep that noise at Bay (pun intended). 
But seriously, I suppose I could run a stocker...I suspect that since they make the muffler to "bolt on" to a stock Bus that the flange placement is the same as stock.
Any more opinions are welcome! |
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Busstom
Samba Member
Joined: November 23, 2014
Posts: 3853
Location: San Jose, CA
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| Posted: Tue Oct 27, 2015 12:31 pm Post subject: Moderators: you can remove this post of you wish. |
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I found the Samba thread on VS exhausts while googling.
When I did the TS search earlier today, I got 112 results and immediately became discouraged. After all, you know how the search term can be completely buried in countless pages of thread.
But alas, upon a closer look, there was already a VS-titled thread 
Apologies...scrap this thread if you like. |
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wcfvw69
Samba Purist
Joined: June 10, 2004
Posts: 13389
Location: Arizona
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| Posted: Tue Oct 27, 2015 3:35 pm Post subject: |
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When I bought my bus, it had a header and single muffler on it. I'm a stock guy and ordered a stock muffler for it. I was SHOCKED at how much quieter the bus was w/the stock muffler. You could actually carry on a conversation inside of the cab! lol
Maybe Robbie will jump in here. I think he had one for a short time and also said it was loud.
_________________
Contact me at [email protected]
Follow me on instagram @sparxwerksllc
Decades of VW and VW parts restoration experience.
The Samba member since 2004.
**Now rebuilding throttle bodies for VW's and Porsche's**
**Restored German Bosch distributors for sale or I can restore yours**
**Restored German Pierburg fuel pumps for sale or I can restore yours**
**Restored Porsche fuel pumps or I can restore yours**
**Restored Porsche distributors or I can restore yours** |
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the_benjamin_effect
Samba Member
Joined: May 31, 2010
Posts: 196
Location: Gateway to the North Cascades, Washington State
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| Posted: Tue Oct 27, 2015 5:00 pm Post subject: |
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I have this set up for my T-IV powered bus. I like it very much and it IS MUCH quieter than my previous ThunderBird set up that only lasted 22K miles.
One issue though: My header cracked around the factory weld on the #2 runner. you can see the factory weld here (not the repair, I don't have a pic of that):
I brought it to a muffler shop and they were able to repair the weld. I believe this cracked due to the weight that is placed on the runners, as the head is the only place that supports all the weight of the SS headers & Muffler, so I had them weld support brackets to the end of the headers that bolt to the frame to help support the weight.
Here is a picture of the whole thing prior to initial install and prior to repair:
And Before:
And After:
Part #:
All in all... even with the small defect... I am satisfied with the purchase as long as the repair holds up. Fit and Finish appears to be top notch, hopefully the crack is a one product defect.
Cheers!
_________________
-1967 Sundial Camper 1914cc "Sunny"
-1978 Deluxe Westfalia Jake Raby built PowerStroke 2109cc "Westy"
-1987 SYNCRO Westfalia GoWesty 2400cc "Ruby"
-2000 Subaru Impreza Sport EJ22 ¼ million miles "Trusty"
International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers. I.A.M. 751
International Brotherhood of Naval Flight Engineers. I.B.N.F.E. LOCAL 8251
My other ride has 18,400 horsepower!
Last edited by the_benjamin_effect on Tue Oct 27, 2015 7:20 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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the_benjamin_effect
Samba Member
Joined: May 31, 2010
Posts: 196
Location: Gateway to the North Cascades, Washington State
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| Posted: Tue Oct 27, 2015 5:20 pm Post subject: |
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Also....
Just an after thought after my last post, as I am no "exhaust expert". I noticed the VintageSpeed EQUAL LENGTH header is considerably more $$ than the straight UEL header. I don't see any gain of an EQUAL LENGTH header when the primary runners are just dumped into a muffler that IS NOT a collector type, as it would not provide proper exhaust scavenging IMO. Food for thought maybe?
Cheers!
_________________
-1967 Sundial Camper 1914cc "Sunny"
-1978 Deluxe Westfalia Jake Raby built PowerStroke 2109cc "Westy"
-1987 SYNCRO Westfalia GoWesty 2400cc "Ruby"
-2000 Subaru Impreza Sport EJ22 ¼ million miles "Trusty"
International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers. I.A.M. 751
International Brotherhood of Naval Flight Engineers. I.B.N.F.E. LOCAL 8251
My other ride has 18,400 horsepower! |
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Busstom
Samba Member
Joined: November 23, 2014
Posts: 3853
Location: San Jose, CA
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| Posted: Thu Oct 29, 2015 6:37 am Post subject: |
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Wow, I'm glad we had this talk. I think I'll try a stock muffler first.
Thanks for all the info and pics, guys.
Benjamin_Effect, I can't spot the crack you're referring to...either I'm not looking in the right place, or it's not discernible in the pic. |
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airschooled
Air-Schooled
Joined: April 04, 2012
Posts: 12728
Location: on a bike ride somewhere
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| Posted: Thu Oct 29, 2015 7:18 am Post subject: |
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I think you'll enjoy the stock setup, the sound alone is so much more pleasant than anything shiny you can buy these days. The VS unit fit fantastic, but it was just too loud for my taste. The slight extra horsepower was nice, but overall not worth the noise. I had the "sport" version with heat risers.
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VWsArent4Hippies
Samba Member
Joined: April 13, 2005
Posts: 3079
Location: The Bull City
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| Posted: Thu Oct 29, 2015 8:39 am Post subject: |
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| asiab3 wrote: |
| I think you'll enjoy the stock setup, the sound alone is so much more pleasant than anything shiny you can buy these days. The VS unit fit fantastic, but it was just too loud for my taste. The slight extra horsepower was nice, but overall not worth the noise. I had the "sport" version with heat risers. |
So you had one on a Type 1 bus, which is completely irrelevant to this thread
I think the performance increase and longevity of the full stainless system far outweighs the slight noise increase. They really are not that loud |
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airschooled
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Location: on a bike ride somewhere
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| Posted: Thu Oct 29, 2015 8:57 am Post subject: |
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| VWsArent4Hippies wrote: |
| I think the performance increase and longevity of the full stainless system far outweighs the slight noise increase. They really are not that loud |
Do you drive 15,000 miles a year on your Vintage Speed exhaust?
The hit in fuel economy for me was enough to outweigh the cost of purchasing a new muffler every year... Even though my first Leistritz went 44 years, and this one should go longer.
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VWsArent4Hippies
Samba Member
Joined: April 13, 2005
Posts: 3079
Location: The Bull City
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| Posted: Thu Oct 29, 2015 9:04 am Post subject: |
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| asiab3 wrote: |
| VWsArent4Hippies wrote: |
| I think the performance increase and longevity of the full stainless system far outweighs the slight noise increase. They really are not that loud |
Do you drive 15,000 miles a year on your Vintage Speed exhaust?
The hit in fuel economy for me was enough to outweigh the cost of purchasing a new muffler every year... Even though my first Leistritz went 44 years, and this one should go longer. |
HaHa!
I have not had good luck with new, stock exhaust systems.
I would say I average 20k+ miles a year in multiple buses, all with vintage speed exhausts. I'll probably do 1400 or so next week when I drive to Florida
Nevermind, I don't know anything. Good luck to the OP! |
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airschooled
Air-Schooled
Joined: April 04, 2012
Posts: 12728
Location: on a bike ride somewhere
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| Posted: Thu Oct 29, 2015 9:15 am Post subject: |
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| VWsArent4Hippies wrote: |
HaHa!
...
Nevermind, I don't know anything. Good luck to the OP! |
Quit it with the childish attitude. I'm here trying to help, I thought you were too. If you'd still like to, you could offer your experience, opinions, or tips on your experiences, instead of just posting pictures. Perhaps you could ask the OP if he/she has oval or square port heads? Or maybe ask if they have the early T4 bus muffler set or later "manifold" style setup?
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Busstom
Samba Member
Joined: November 23, 2014
Posts: 3853
Location: San Jose, CA
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| Posted: Thu Oct 29, 2015 9:26 am Post subject: |
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Man, that’s some serious mileage.
It will be a miracle if I put 20k on my Bay, in its life! I’ve put 15 miles on it in the last two months (of course, it needs an overhaul  ).
I wish I could drive a Bay with the VS muffler on it, so I could test it for myself. For me, it’s not specifically the “loudness,” but the frequency. You see, I have severe hyperacusis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperacusis from two decades of loud car stereos, playing music and clubbing. And so it’s the bass frequencies of a muffler that are devastating to my hearing. A so-called quiet pack sounds real nice, but the low tones rack my head, not necessarily the volume.
See, if I could tell kids how destructive loud music can be, well…ahhh, kids don’t listen. |
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VWsArent4Hippies
Samba Member
Joined: April 13, 2005
Posts: 3079
Location: The Bull City
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| Posted: Thu Oct 29, 2015 9:28 am Post subject: |
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| asiab3 wrote: |
| VWsArent4Hippies wrote: |
HaHa!
...
Nevermind, I don't know anything. Good luck to the OP! |
Quit it with the childish attitude. I'm here trying to help, I thought you were too. If you'd still like to, you could offer your experience, opinions, or tips on your experiences, instead of just posting pictures. Perhaps you could ask the OP if he/she has oval or square port heads? Or maybe ask if they have the early T4 bus muffler set or later "manifold" style setup? |
I'm pretty sure every post i've made in this thread has pertained exactly to what this thread is about. I'm not asking those questions, because it's pretty obvious the OP already has that figured out. VS offers both oval and square port headers, and since he's replacing the entire system it really doesn't matter what his current set up is.
My experience, opinion, and tip is to go with the VS setup, but I believe that's already been expressed. And luckily you posted your experience with a completely different exhaust system, so i'm sure that was very helpful.
When you make comments to people that you don't know and question their authority on a subject you can't expect them to not respond. |
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Busstom
Samba Member
Joined: November 23, 2014
Posts: 3853
Location: San Jose, CA
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| Posted: Thu Oct 29, 2015 9:35 am Post subject: |
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| asiab3 wrote: |
| ...oval or square port heads? Or maybe ask if they have the early T4 bus muffler set or later "manifold" style setup? |
Ooops...I was typing...thanks -b3. I am pretty sure at this point without having removed it yet, that I have oval exhaust ports. It's got the stock 1975 system on it, with the crossover pipe and the triangular flanges.
One of the Samba members was over last weekend, combing over some engine details with me...for sure it's got hydraulic lifters, and the GE case would appear to be from '78, but it looks like a PO slapped the original exhaust system back on (still has the original fan shroud and peripherals).
So I guess you could say it's kind of "bastardized?" |
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Busstom
Samba Member
Joined: November 23, 2014
Posts: 3853
Location: San Jose, CA
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| Posted: Thu Oct 29, 2015 9:41 am Post subject: |
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| VWsArent4Hippies wrote: |
| My experience, opinion, and tip is to go with the VS setup... |
I do like that pic of your motor tilted 90*...shows the nice twisty pipes snaking their way to the rear...try to find THAT on google images...
(Okay, maybe it would appear, I prolly didn't google hard enough)  |
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airschooled
Air-Schooled
Joined: April 04, 2012
Posts: 12728
Location: on a bike ride somewhere
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| Posted: Thu Oct 29, 2015 10:40 am Post subject: |
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| Busstom wrote: |
I wish I could drive a Bay with the VS muffler on it, so I could test it for myself. For me, it’s not specifically the “loudness,” but the frequency. You see, I have severe hyperacusis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperacusis from two decades of loud car stereos, playing music and clubbing. And so it’s the bass frequencies of a muffler that are devastating to my hearing. A so-called quiet pack sounds real nice, but the low tones rack my head, not necessarily the volume.
See, if I could tell kids how destructive loud music can be, well…ahhh, kids don’t listen. |
I hear 'ya.... (get it?) My drum teacher always had earplugs available, and I thank him every day for that.
The bus cabin is a stagnant body of air, so if your window/door seals are all in good shape and you don't have any leaks, the standing column of air inside can be quite resonant. What you do NOT want is an exhaust that resonates well at the same pitch, or any significant harmonic, of the cabin resonant pitch. Even without hearing damage this can be quite obnoxious. This is something that VW knew about in the design, and it is evident in their muffler design that has no dominant frequency regardless of engine speed. Coincidentally, this is part of the reason, (emissions being the other,) that the exhaust flow is so "odd" to people who want merged headers and collector type "free flowing" systems.
If you want to go further down the rabbit hole, which I think you do, you're lucky to have a T4 bus. The crank/flywheel/whatever in your engine is always spinning at the same speed. Nothing of serious mass is creating any other vibrations, unlike a T1 with our generator and cooling fan spinning more than one and a half times the speed of the crank, but less than double the speed. We have to deal with fighting harmonies between the sound of the crank pulsations and the pitch of the cooling fan. There's nothing we can do about the resulting chord, other than make sure everything is balanced well to reduce vibration. A T4 engine in a bus with a Volkswagen-designed muffler system is going to be the quietest ride you will have, short of going electric powered. (Please don't.)
At the end of the day, you'll be the only one who can weigh the options of sound, longevity, fit, finish, and style.
Robbie
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