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Flush transaxle after trans rebuild (extreme flush!)
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Sodo
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2015 10:37 am    Post subject: Flush transaxle after trans rebuild (extreme flush!) Reply with quote

My transaxle ran in a horrible metal soup as it ground-up a (used) pinion bearing in 9,000 miles. It's re-rebuilt now but obviously there are remnants of that soup still in there. For example the differential was not disassembled/cleaned. And it's a Peloquin, who knows whats in there, would probably have to send it back to the MFR to disassemble.

I called Peloquin and he offered to clean it, but it's too late for that - the trans is in back in the van. I asked if I should put a 5w20 motor oil in there and run it on the stands for awhile to flush it out. Peloquin said yes that's a good idea and recommended to flush it 2x or 3x. He said I can remove one axle to spin everything in the differential.

I know this sounds like an awful lot of 'work' but I now have an onboard transaxle oil pump.

The plan is:

--- 1) Flush the transaxle twice (on the stands, spinning) with used motor oil
--- 2) Flush with clean 5w-20 motor oil (or lighter?) on stands (spinning)
--- 3) Drive it some miles with break-in gear oil (Lucas 80w-90)
--- 4) Replace with Swepco 201.

This will be happening later today or tomorrow. Can anybody think of other considerations regarding flushing a transaxle with light motor oil that I need to know?
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djkeev Premium Member
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2015 11:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Statistically you need to flush 3-4 times to even begin to think you've removed the debris

Unless you have an Automatic, all of that metal soup was in the transmission too.

Dave
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gears
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2015 11:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It really needed full disassembly and inspection.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2015 11:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

gears wrote:
It really needed full disassembly and inspection.



Yep
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?Waldo?
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2015 11:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

^^^x2^^^

I can't imagine having having a failure that involved metal swarf and not doing a complete disassembly and cleaning of every part of the trans. Even very small hard pieces can make for another very short-lived trans. If this trans fails early you will know that it was your own doing.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2015 11:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

gears wrote:
It really needed full disassembly and inspection.


True, but sometimes you do what seems best at the time.
Like those who rebuild an Air Cooled that spun a bearing and reuse the old oil cooler Rolling Eyes

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Sodo
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2015 11:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well I do have lots of used motor oil,,,,, dhaavers, how's that 4x statistic work, I'm kinda interested. My plan IS 4 flushes, actually. Also I have a transmission oil filter (200 micron), not sure what 200micron catches. Wish I had an old-school claudes buggies automotive filter block (temporary) for this flushing process.

I highly doubt the rebuilder disassembled my Peloquin the last time either. Or any rebuilder would do that. This could be one reason a trans fails AGAIN. All my parts swam in a metal soup culminating in 'rebuilds' at 147k, 165k and 174k.

I do worry about the metal in there, that's why I'm planning this anal flushing. Haven't read of anyone else doing it or even mentioning disassembly of differentials in VW rebuilds. But I can't read all posts ever posted.
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Last edited by Sodo on Tue Oct 27, 2015 11:51 am; edited 4 times in total
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2015 11:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pool filtration, must turn over all the water three times a day (recently changed to four) to filter it all.

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Sodo
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2015 11:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

AHH,,,,OK pool,,,, that's cootie-related. In a transmission there will ALWAYS be metal swarf, the questions are, how big are they, what is it, and how much? I kinda think I can get it cleaner than what most running trans are experiencing all day every day.

I'm interested in all observations regarding this proposal.
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Last edited by Sodo on Tue Oct 27, 2015 11:48 am; edited 1 time in total
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Merian
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2015 11:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

you know... it is not all that hard to drop the powertrain out of a Vanagon
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2015 12:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If this was my tranny I'd yank that thing out of there in an hour and send it out to be cleaned internally. Really much better to bite that bullet now. PITA I know but in this situation doing it right the first time is better than doing it over. Very Happy
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2015 12:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Id consider using auto trans fluid on the theory it is a high detergent oil and would loosen corners drifted with metal dust better than motor oil.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2015 12:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

IdahoDoug wrote:
Id consider using auto trans fluid on the theory it is a high detergent oil and would loosen corners drifted with metal dust better than motor oil.


On the bench only--do not not drive it as I believe it will eat yellow metals
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Sodo
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2015 12:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To back up a little, my trans has been disaaaembled entirely, rebuilt, re-assembled, installed back in the van. Its currently "dry". I'm fussing over the differential that didn't get a "deep cleaning".

Yep ATF does sound better. How much metal can be eaten in an hour or so?

So current plan is to spin the trans (on blocks) with used motor oil, flushing a couple times, then flush with clean ATF, then break-in (driving 100 easy miles?) with Lucas 80w90, then Swepco 201.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2015 1:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Again, IF a manual trans, do not the gearbox and differential share the same oil?

If so, your flushing plan will contaminate the rebuilt portion.

Dave
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2015 1:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm confused. Who rebuilt that tranny but did not look at the differential? Especially when there was that much metal floating around? When I sent mine out to AA Matt definitely went thru the diff and told me that the Peloquin was not damaged when the old Weddle third and fourth gears went south. I'd expect any trans rebuilder to do that, but maybe not???
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2015 1:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

djkeev wrote:
Again, IF a manual trans, do not the gearbox and differential share the same oil?

If so, your flushing plan will contaminate the rebuilt portion.

Dave


+1
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Sodo
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2015 2:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dobryan wrote:
I'm confused. Who rebuilt that tranny but did not look at the differential? Especially when there was that much metal floating around? When I sent mine out to AA Matt definitely went thru the diff and told me that the Peloquin was not damaged when the old Weddle third and fourth gears went south. I'd expect any trans rebuilder to do that, but maybe not???


Have you __looked__ at a Peloquin diff? I kinda doubt ANYBODY is disassembling them (other than Gary Peloquin). Or even OEM diffs, for that matter. I bet "went thru the diff" meant there wasn't visible damage on the R&P gear teeth.

Most folks are just doing the break-in flush. I think the flushing regiment I am doing puts me in the upper echelon of transaxular anality, (just below R&R & re-disassemble) and some of you fellas think it signs me up for another 9,000 mile rebuild instead.

I sense a vast disparity in opinion. Smile

-------EDIT------

Slight change of plan. I don't have enough used engine oil, and at the store they had 15w40 for $12/gal so decided to use clean oil. Jus about to crank it up!

However it was interesting that my used engine oil had settled, such that the top 2/3 of every quart was clean & clear! I didnt know used oil did that.

----------------

OTOH, "..isn't this what living is really all about?" -Zappa
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2015 3:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"..isn't rebuilding trannies every year what living is really all about?"

- Reuben & the Jets


I'd do it right, so it doesn't have to be done again, but your money, so...
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2015 3:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is no way to completely drain the fluid in the tranny. If you use some fluid that won't work in the long term I wouldn't consider using it.
If you are actually interested in cleaning it properly, now is the time to yank it back out and have it professionally cleaned by Peloquin. It is worth the time/effort/money now if it keeps another tranny goes south if that concerns you.
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