Saggy butt measurement for rear torsion bars 70' bus

[wcfvw69]

So, Colin was here a couple of months ago. He said my butt was saggy. I know, so hurtful.. My bus needs to have the torsion bar donuts changed as the covers have never been off. I've read several threads about the process and have done it on my bug.

What I'm curious about is if there a measurement from the ground to the top of the fender with the correct size tires? I'm just curious as I have put a level on the drip rail, sliding door opening and other spots. They all show the bus to be level (while it's parked on level ground). Looking at the bus, it has a nose up look to it.

I've also read somewhere (I can't find it now) that there's a measurement from somewhere on the transmission to the ground. I understand that Bentley has degree settings on the spring plate depending on which bar is in it. I'm just curious if any has got there bus back to the correct, none saggy butt and measured the ground to the fender.
_________________
Contact me at [email protected]
Follow me on instagram @sparxwerksllc

Decades of VW and VW parts restoration experience.
The Samba member since 2004.

**Now rebuilding throttle bodies for VW's and Porsche's**
**Restored German Bosch distributors for sale or I can restore yours**
**Restored German Pierburg fuel pumps for sale or I can restore yours**
**Restored Porsche fuel pumps or I can restore yours**
**Restored Porsche distributors or I can restore yours**

[aeromech]

I've done this job a couple times and never measured anything. Not even the angle of degrees. The splines are different on the inside and outside of the torsion bar. I turn the bar one spline to raise the rear and then move the spring plate one spline the other direction. This has worked well for me. Once I did somehow go too much and then had to go back and do the job over. The spring plate was banging into the stop going over bumps. So, to be more clear... I slid the whole bar out from the bus with the spring plate still attached. Then rotated one spline in the raise direction. Once the bar was back in place, I slid the spring plate off the outside splines of the bar and turned it one spline in the lower direction.

Final result

_________________
Lead Mechanic: San Diego Air and Space Museum
Licensed Airframe and Powerplant Mechanic
Licensed Pilot (Single engine Land)
Boeing 727,737-200-300-400,757,767
Airbus A319,320,321
DC9/MD80
BAe146
Fokker F28/F100
VW type 1 1962,63,65,69,72
VW Type 2 1971 (3 ea.) 1978, 1969
VW Jetta
VW Passat
Capable of leaping tall buildings in a single bound

[wcfvw69]

Gary,

That's a great looking bus! It's hard for me to tell ride height. That 71/72 bus in your pics appears to be a bit too high in the rear or maybe it's the camera angles?

This pic is from an early bay from the Factory literature. When I see a early bay that doesn't have a saggy butt, it always appears to me visually that you can see 7/8's of the tire. The other 1/8 is hidden inside the fender well.

This is why I was curious if anyone had some measurements to compare each others buses to each others if were running the same size/type of tires.
_________________
Contact me at [email protected]
Follow me on instagram @sparxwerksllc

Decades of VW and VW parts restoration experience.
The Samba member since 2004.

**Now rebuilding throttle bodies for VW's and Porsche's**
**Restored German Bosch distributors for sale or I can restore yours**
**Restored German Pierburg fuel pumps for sale or I can restore yours**
**Restored Porsche fuel pumps or I can restore yours**
**Restored Porsche distributors or I can restore yours**

[wcfvw69]

According to the 1970 owners manual, a camper bus (Westphalia's) height is 80". I went and measured mine. It's 79 1/2" with the stock size tires. I measured up in the center of the rear fender well. I have 23" to the bottom of the fender well to the ground. So, I'm assuming the rear end is sagging 1/2". I can only "see" about 3/4's of my rear tire in the fender well, so this may be right.

If anyone else happens to have measured there rear end fender to ground or trans to ground after resetting their torsion bars to factory degree settings, I'd be curious to know them.
_________________
Contact me at [email protected]
Follow me on instagram @sparxwerksllc

Decades of VW and VW parts restoration experience.
The Samba member since 2004.

**Now rebuilding throttle bodies for VW's and Porsche's**
**Restored German Bosch distributors for sale or I can restore yours**
**Restored German Pierburg fuel pumps for sale or I can restore yours**
**Restored Porsche fuel pumps or I can restore yours**
**Restored Porsche distributors or I can restore yours**

[Tcash]

You need to watch going off body lines and non fixed points.
Tires by size differ slightly from Manufacturer to Mnf.
The trans mounts may be soft and the trans is sagging.
When they stamped out the wheel wells and installed them. They had a + or - tolerance (exaggeration -0.5" to +0.5") would give you a 1" variant.

You would do better to take the measurement from the frame to the ground to get a closer comparison.

That 71/72 bus in your pics appears to be a bit too high in the rear or maybe it's the camera angles?
Probably just the passenger tires aeromech has on there throwing your eye off.


Tcash

[Amskeptic]

[lintbrush]

I'm about to tackle this job myself as well on my 1970, but I'm trying to bring it down a bit since I have Oldspeed 2" drop spindles up front and the nose-down rake (IMO) is just not right. It's also bugged me that my driver side is .5" lower than my passenger side in the back. I'm researching adjustable spring plates and everything else I need before embarking on the job, but not finding many quality options. I saw Atomwerk has some, but not seeing any posts on them. I'm thinking of dialing things to stock with the angle measurement and then bringing things down ~1" in back. Oh, and I know that it's open to a ton of variables, but I measured ground to fenderwell and had 23-3/4" on passenger side and 23-1/4" driver side. Good luck!

_________________
1970 Westfalia Campmobile - SF Bay Area
https://www.instagram.com/campishome/

[Wildthings]

This is a really simple tool to help get the angles right. It is cut at the 23* angle and sits against the bottom of the frame runners. You just visually compare the angle of the spring plate to the cut of the board. Pretty much all you need to make such are a speed square and a circular saw.

If I make another it will be even simpler to make than what is shown.

[busdaddy]

I agree, set it at 23 and let the springs do the rest, and far too many variables with tires and fender lips.

But if you're bent on doing it the hard way how about 57.5" from the axle center to the top of the drip rail
_________________
Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.

Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!

Слава Україні!

[Tcash]

With a tape measure you are not going to be able to get a starting measurement to calculate the adjustments needed to achieve your desired end measurement.

A Protractor is the best tool for the job.
http://www.sears.com/craftsman-magnetic-universal-...oCj4nw_wcB

Here is something to consider as well. The Torsion bars sometimes develop a set, different spring rates, lets face it they are not new anymore. So there have been members that have adjusted both sides to the same (*) degrees and end up with a uneven ride height.
Taking this into consideration you really need two (*) degree measurements to calculate the final ride height.
Spring plate angle with Vehicle at rest.
Spring plates popped and at rest.

Good luck
Tcash

[busdaddy]

[richparker]

I used an angle finder, similar to the one Tcash posted. I set mine at 25.5*, it rides nice, doesn't top out on the stops and handles loads well. Had I known about 23* I would have set it to that. New bushings is a must when you are doing this job and don't forget to coat them in talcum powder.
_________________
__________
’71 Westy build
Adventure thread
’65 Deluxe Build
’63 Deluxe Build

[wcfvw69]

Colin- I know.. I know.. I can get a bit OCD

This picture of your 70' looks "right" (to me) as far as the stance and how the rear tire looks in the rear fender.

What irritates me is that I "meant" to steal those measurements off Chloe when she was in the drive way. They would of been used as a simple comparison to mine. I've read on both sites that the vast majority of folks liked 23* on the spring plates, off the rests. With you and Bus Daddy liking that number, I'll run w/it after changing the spring plate bushings.

Thanks to the others for your impute as well.
_________________
Contact me at [email protected]
Follow me on instagram @sparxwerksllc

Decades of VW and VW parts restoration experience.
The Samba member since 2004.

**Now rebuilding throttle bodies for VW's and Porsche's**
**Restored German Bosch distributors for sale or I can restore yours**
**Restored German Pierburg fuel pumps for sale or I can restore yours**
**Restored Porsche fuel pumps or I can restore yours**
**Restored Porsche distributors or I can restore yours**

[Tcash]

[busdaddy]

[Amskeptic]

[Tcash]

[busdaddy]

[Tcash]

wcfvw69 it seems in your minds eye, you have a certain height and tire reveal that you would like to achieve. Unfortunately to achieve the desired results may require trial and error.

Torsion bars Adjustment

Good luck
Tcash

Talking about having to reset the height. When we would do the 911's. A couple of us would push down on the car repeatedly. The shop floor was smooth and painted and the tires would chirp as the suspension was coming back to rest.
Sometimes just from the car sitting overnight the height would change.

[wcfvw69]

Again, I appreciate everyone's thoughts and feedback.

Now, for clarity and in my defense , I wasn't going to set the rear height to achieve a specific distance between the ground and the fender or match someone's else's measurement between them. It's just that at times I look at my bus and think "I'm not sure the rear is really sagging to much?" So, if there was a basic number, it would of been interesting to compare.

I'd read most of the threads on setting the bus's torsion bars before posting this question. I saw that 23* number mentioned in several of them. Colin and Bus Daddy reinforced that's the number to use. If it's wrong, I'll expect both of them to be here next week and personally reset it so It's right.

Thanks again everyone.
_________________
Contact me at [email protected]
Follow me on instagram @sparxwerksllc

Decades of VW and VW parts restoration experience.
The Samba member since 2004.

**Now rebuilding throttle bodies for VW's and Porsche's**
**Restored German Bosch distributors for sale or I can restore yours**
**Restored German Pierburg fuel pumps for sale or I can restore yours**
**Restored Porsche fuel pumps or I can restore yours**
**Restored Porsche distributors or I can restore yours**