| Author |
Message |
lojoma
Samba Member
Joined: May 28, 2012
Posts: 233
Location: Memphis
|
 Posted: Mon Nov 09, 2015 1:45 pm Post subject: Grinding first gear |
 |
|
'63 Beetle. Here's the symptoms.
In general, I can shift through the gears with little trouble. However, it sometimes grinds going into first (at a standstill, not rolling).
If I am approaching a stop, and push the clutch and shift to neutral, then, when stopped (with clutch still pushed), I can shift into first with no grinding. But, If I take my foot off the clutch, then push clutch in again and try to shift to first, I get grinding.
I attempted to adjust the shifter position but felt I was grasping at straws in how to actually make this go away, so I put it to the most neutral posture I could (bolt holes perfectly centered) and tightened them back.
I tried searching but didn't find that exact symptom (admittedly, wasn't sure how to really phrase it, either).
thanks |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
VOLKSWAGNUT
Fastest VW Belt Changer
Joined: October 14, 2007
Posts: 11056
Location: Flippin' a Belt........ .... Off-n-On ... NC USA
|
| Posted: Mon Nov 09, 2015 1:56 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Hopefully it has nice fresh clean, full and proper gear oil in it..
and
Hopefully the clutch is adjusted properly..
Start with clutch adjustment and pilot bearing inspection and greasing.
but... Most likely.... Worn synchronizer blocker ring....
If so.. either get used to it.. or get it overhauled..
1st gear syncro is usually the first to go..
IMO .. if all other gears are smooth and no other issues.. just learn its inherent traits and drive it..
Plenty before 1961 didnt have a synchronized 1st gear.. the drivers just learned how to drive it..
TIP:... Placing the transmission in 2nd or 3rd BEFORE 1st or Reverse stops the input shaft and allows smooth 1st and/or reverse gear selection.
Class dismissed
.
_________________
aka Ken {o\!/o}
Its your vehicle- stop askin' for approval-do what YOU like for cryin' out loud
Better to roll em' how you want and wear em' out-than lettin' em' rot out
Its about the going not the showing
Rebuilt to drive not decorate
WANTED: Local Eatin' Joints, Triple D for TheSamba contributions here http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=570510
Search "VOLKSWAGNUT" on YouTube since you cant watch a "certain" BELT change video round here
Usually and often edited |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Ben Dover
Banned
Joined: March 02, 2014
Posts: 92
Location: Charleston
|
| Posted: Mon Nov 09, 2015 4:27 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Sounds like the clutch or pressure plate is either going bad or out of adjustment. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
bluebus86
Banned
Joined: September 02, 2010
Posts: 11075
|
| Posted: Mon Nov 09, 2015 4:48 pm Post subject: |
|
|
as others have alluded to make sure the tranny is full of oil and check the clutch cable adjustment if the cable is slightly to long, you will experience some gear clashing, often first is the worse. hopefully it is just a stretched cable, so adjust so you get just a tad more than half an inch of freeplay at the foot peddle.
if the tranny is worn, like other said, quickly shifting first into second gear before first gear can help a lot. I got some cars that I drive that way until I am ready for a rebuild
good luck, hope it is the clutch cable for an easy fix!!!
_________________
Help Prevent VW Engine Fires, see this link.....Engine safety wire information
Stop introducing dirt into your oil when adjusting valves ... https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=683022 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Bruce
Samba Member
Joined: May 16, 2003
Posts: 17290
Location: Left coast, Canada
|
| Posted: Mon Nov 09, 2015 7:06 pm Post subject: Re: Grinding first gear |
|
|
| lojoma wrote: |
If I am approaching a stop, and push the clutch and shift to neutral, then, when stopped (with clutch still pushed), I can shift into first with no grinding. But, If I take my foot off the clutch, then push clutch in again and try to shift to first, I get grinding.
|
Do you still get grinding if you wait a few seconds longer?
_________________
| overheard at the portland Swap Meet... wrote: |
| ..... a steering wheel made from a mastadon tusk..... |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
lojoma
Samba Member
Joined: May 28, 2012
Posts: 233
Location: Memphis
|
| Posted: Mon Nov 09, 2015 8:57 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Thanks, all. I checked the clutch pedal and it does have too much play. I will adjust the cable and hopefully that will do the trick. I'll try the other suggestions as well. I got the car in August and I have no idea how old the trans oil is; replacing the trans oil is on my to-do list. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Bruce
Samba Member
Joined: May 16, 2003
Posts: 17290
Location: Left coast, Canada
|
| Posted: Mon Nov 09, 2015 10:39 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| lojoma wrote: |
| .... replacing the trans oil is on my to-do list. |
I bet it hasn't been changed any time this century.
It is very important that you take care of this soon.
_________________
| overheard at the portland Swap Meet... wrote: |
| ..... a steering wheel made from a mastadon tusk..... |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
bluebus86
Banned
Joined: September 02, 2010
Posts: 11075
|
| Posted: Tue Nov 10, 2015 9:30 am Post subject: |
|
|
| lojoma wrote: |
| Thanks, all. I checked the clutch pedal and it does have too much play. I will adjust the cable and hopefully that will do the trick. I'll try the other suggestions as well. I got the car in August and I have no idea how old the trans oil is; replacing the trans oil is on my to-do list. |
Of course adjust the clutch first.
I bought a 914 car a while ago, shifted badly, grinding into gears, I changed the oil with new sta-lube 80w90 oil as specified, still bad. then I tried on recommendation from a friend synthetic lube, I used redline tranny oil and the problems went away, used that tranny for another 70k miles until I got rid of it.
I never thought a mechanic could be found in a bottle, but the stuff did work for me. If you try this make sure you get the stuff recommend for your transmission, as they sell several types of gear lube, some for limited slip some for gl4 others for gl5 requirements.
PS I got a good deal on the 914 cause the seller said the tranny was shot!!!
I dont sell this stuff nor have any financial interest in it, it did however work for me I kno9w it sounds like snake oil and I hesitated trying it. may not help you but then again, it is cheaper than a tranny rebuild, might be worth a shot if other things don't work
_________________
Help Prevent VW Engine Fires, see this link.....Engine safety wire information
Stop introducing dirt into your oil when adjusting valves ... https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=683022 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
lojoma
Samba Member
Joined: May 28, 2012
Posts: 233
Location: Memphis
|
| Posted: Tue Nov 10, 2015 9:36 am Post subject: |
|
|
I tried the "shift to 2nd gear before shifting to 1st gear" trick and it worked! No grinding that way.
Thanks for all the suggestions...this weekend I will adjust the cable and hopefully have time to change the trans oil as well. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
fla2smoker
Samba Member
Joined: December 31, 2011
Posts: 574
Location: Parrish, Florida
|
| Posted: Tue Nov 10, 2015 12:46 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Make sure you can remove the fill plug before you drain out the old fluid!! Sometimes they are stuck and that would be a bad time to find out....
_________________
View my 66 build thread here: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=507996 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
KTPhil 
Samba Member
Joined: April 06, 2006
Posts: 34021
Location: Conejo Valley, CA
|
| Posted: Tue Nov 10, 2015 2:01 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I also suspect the pilot bearing in the gland nut. If it is dry and sticking, it won't affect higher gear shifting much, but it can cause an issue in first from a standstill, since it may cause the tranny input shaft to rotate despite the clutch action. I'd check, lube or replace it next time the engine is out.
If either gear works, I'd also be inclined to use 3rd instead of 2nd to stop the grind in 1st. The 2nd synchro is usually the first to go, and using 3rd will reduce wear on 2nd. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
lojoma
Samba Member
Joined: May 28, 2012
Posts: 233
Location: Memphis
|
| Posted: Tue Nov 10, 2015 9:51 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| fla2smoker wrote: |
| Make sure you can remove the fill plug before you drain out the old fluid!! Sometimes they are stuck and that would be a bad time to find out.... |
Thanks for the advice! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
lojoma
Samba Member
Joined: May 28, 2012
Posts: 233
Location: Memphis
|
| Posted: Tue Nov 10, 2015 9:52 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| KTPhil wrote: |
I also suspect the pilot bearing in the gland nut. If it is dry and sticking, it won't affect higher gear shifting much, but it can cause an issue in first from a standstill, since it may cause the tranny input shaft to rotate despite the clutch action. I'd check, lube or replace it next time the engine is out.
If either gear works, I'd also be inclined to use 3rd instead of 2nd to stop the grind in 1st. The 2nd synchro is usually the first to go, and using 3rd will reduce wear on 2nd. |
Didn't try it with 3rd, but I will see how that works! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Cusser
Samba Member
Joined: October 02, 2006
Posts: 31379
Location: Hot Arizona
|
| Posted: Wed Nov 11, 2015 6:36 am Post subject: Re: Grinding first gear |
|
|
This thread reminded me of how when sitting at a traffic light in neutral, my 1971 sometimes (a few times a year) is balky at going into 1st. If I put it into 1st as soon as I slow down, and keep it there with the clutch pedal down, no symptoms.
This has happened 3 or 4 times a year since I got it in 1976, so I will continue my course of: doing nothing !
_________________
1970 VW (owned since 1972) and 1971 VW Convertible (owned since 1976), second owner of each. The '71 now has the 1835 engine, swapped from the '70. Second owner of each. 1988 Mazda B2200 truck, 1998 Frontier, 2014 Yukon, 2004 Frontier King Cab. All manual transmission except for the Yukon. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335294 http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335297 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
VOLKSWAGNUT
Fastest VW Belt Changer
Joined: October 14, 2007
Posts: 11056
Location: Flippin' a Belt........ .... Off-n-On ... NC USA
|
| Posted: Wed Nov 11, 2015 7:08 am Post subject: Re: Grinding first gear |
|
|
| Cusser wrote: |
If I put it into 1st as soon as I slow down, and keep it there with the clutch pedal down, no symptoms.
|
All good.... until a clutch cable snaps sitting at a light.. and it chokes or bumps the car in front of you.. 
.
_________________
aka Ken {o\!/o}
Its your vehicle- stop askin' for approval-do what YOU like for cryin' out loud
Better to roll em' how you want and wear em' out-than lettin' em' rot out
Its about the going not the showing
Rebuilt to drive not decorate
WANTED: Local Eatin' Joints, Triple D for TheSamba contributions here http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=570510
Search "VOLKSWAGNUT" on YouTube since you cant watch a "certain" BELT change video round here
Usually and often edited |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
KTPhil
Samba Member
Joined: April 06, 2006
Posts: 34021
Location: Conejo Valley, CA
|
| Posted: Wed Nov 11, 2015 10:24 am Post subject: Re: Grinding first gear |
|
|
| VOLKSWAGNUT wrote: |
| Cusser wrote: |
If I put it into 1st as soon as I slow down, and keep it there with the clutch pedal down, no symptoms.
|
All good.... until a clutch cable snaps sitting at a light.. and it chokes or bumps the car in front of you..
. |
A co-worker told me this happened to him years ago in his Rabbit. He was waiting for a left turn with the steering wheel turned when it snapped and shot him into the nearest oncoming traffic lane. Fortunately no one was in that lane and he stopped before hitting the car coming in the #2 lane. Shudder!
Sitting with the clutch depressed also will wear out your #1 main bearing faster, and maybe the case saddle for it, too. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
lojoma
Samba Member
Joined: May 28, 2012
Posts: 233
Location: Memphis
|
| Posted: Mon Nov 16, 2015 12:12 pm Post subject: Re: Grinding first gear |
|
|
| Ok, so I adjusted the clutch and changed the trans fluid. Way less grinding going into first gear, but still a little. Will stick to shifting to 3rd or 2nd before shifting to 1st to avoid the grinding. Hopefully that will get me by for a good while. Thanks for the advice. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
bluebus86
Banned
Joined: September 02, 2010
Posts: 11075
|
| Posted: Mon Nov 16, 2015 6:51 pm Post subject: Re: Grinding first gear |
|
|
| KTPhil wrote: |
| VOLKSWAGNUT wrote: |
| Cusser wrote: |
If I put it into 1st as soon as I slow down, and keep it there with the clutch pedal down, no symptoms.
|
All good.... until a clutch cable snaps sitting at a light.. and it chokes or bumps the car in front of you..
. |
A co-worker told me this happened to him years ago in his Rabbit. He was waiting for a left turn with the steering wheel turned when it snapped and shot him into the nearest oncoming traffic lane. Fortunately no one was in that lane and he stopped before hitting the car coming in the #2 lane. Shudder!
Sitting with the clutch depressed also will wear out your #1 main bearing faster, and maybe the case saddle for it, too. |
rule from driving school is not to crank the wheel for a left turn while waiting for traffic to clear, keep the wheels straight ahead. this will prevent a head on into oncoming traffic if your rear ended whilst waiting for the turn and of course if the clutch cable breaks.
amazing what is not teached these days or maybe folks forget. don't turn the wheel until your ready to turn!!!!
_________________
Help Prevent VW Engine Fires, see this link.....Engine safety wire information
Stop introducing dirt into your oil when adjusting valves ... https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=683022 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Bruce
Samba Member
Joined: May 16, 2003
Posts: 17290
Location: Left coast, Canada
|
| Posted: Tue Nov 17, 2015 12:05 am Post subject: Re: Grinding first gear |
|
|
| Bruce wrote: |
| lojoma wrote: |
If I am approaching a stop, and push the clutch and shift to neutral, then, when stopped (with clutch still pushed), I can shift into first with no grinding. But, If I take my foot off the clutch, then push clutch in again and try to shift to first, I get grinding.
|
Do you still get grinding if you wait a few seconds longer? |
_________________
| overheard at the portland Swap Meet... wrote: |
| ..... a steering wheel made from a mastadon tusk..... |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
grosbeak
Samba Member
Joined: May 28, 2021
Posts: 15
|
| Posted: Sat Jul 17, 2021 4:14 am Post subject: Re: Grinding first gear |
|
|
Thanks for the helpful thread. We bought our '68 convertible in May and have started to experience the same first gear grinding issue. I got it up in the air last week and check the transaxle fluid level. It was almost two quarts down, which is pretty scary. Topping it up didn't solve the problem (though it does run smoother); I tried adjusting the shift lever (http://www.vw-resource.com/plateadj.html) - no joy.
Checking the clutch cable adjustment is next on the list. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
