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deep sump is holding up my project
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fes
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2016 12:51 pm    Post subject: deep sump is holding up my project Reply with quote

I didn't realize until my motor was off the bench and in the car that the sump is missing some crucial pieces,
It looks to me like the Empi 9142 1 1/2 qt kit, please correct me if I'm wrong.
So I am missing the drain plate, which I'm assuming is stock replacement..
The mounting studs, and or hex bolts with copper washers
The pick-up tube with clamp, what's the correct length for this?
Gaskets, and Is this set-up designed to use a strainer?
Are the hex bolts something I can source from my FLAPS?

Please help, this is such a stupid thing to be stopping me from finally starting my car.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2016 12:55 pm    Post subject: Re: deep sump is holding up my project Reply with quote

Reuse the sump plate from your engine on the deep sump, got to Lowes and get/make studs, you get the picture. I WISH that was all that was holding up my project.
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fes
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2016 1:35 pm    Post subject: Re: deep sump is holding up my project Reply with quote

So does this look like the correct pick-up tube setup? For some reason I would think it should come down lower into the sump..
This was the deep sump that was already installed on the motor when I got it, someone took off the plate and lost it Rolling Eyes
Does anyone know the size of the studs for the drain plate?
It looks like the hex bolts might be a better option for me, I don't have anything to take with me to the hardware store unless I pull a stud out of my motor in my Bus..M6 1.0 work here?
The pics i'm finding online of this deep sump fore sale don't seem to come with the strainer nor the drain plate, so I'm assuming they intend on you using your old ones
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2016 1:39 pm    Post subject: Re: deep sump is holding up my project Reply with quote

fes wrote:
So does this look like the correct pick-up tube setup? For some reason I would think it should come down lower into the sump..
This was the deep sump that was already installed on the motor when I got it, someone took off the plate and lost it Rolling Eyes
Does anyone know the size of the studs for the drain plate?
It looks like the hex bolts might be a better option for me, I don't have anything to take with me to the hardware store unless I pull a stud out of my motor in my Bus..M6 1.0 work here?
The pics i'm finding online of this deep sump fore sale don't seem to come with the strainer nor the drain plate, so I'm assuming they intend on you using your old ones


It uses a standard drain plate and strainer. The studs or bolts are 6 x 1 and you need to adjust the pick up tube extension so it fully seats in the strainer.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2016 1:40 pm    Post subject: Re: deep sump is holding up my project Reply with quote

your pickup tube needs to be extended, I am not a fan of the extensions that come with those sumps, they are just a tube that slips over the stock tube and a hose clamp.
That joint has to be air tight so you don't suck air, some people use a bit of silicone to try and seal it ... also make sure it is tight as it may vibrate and get loose or even fall of.
I weld mine on, but you need to have the engine apart to do that, Cip also sells the long ones:
http://www2.cip1.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=C24-043-101-149-XL

My studs are about 3/4" long M6x1.0
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fes
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2016 2:11 pm    Post subject: Re: deep sump is holding up my project Reply with quote

This is good help, This is my first non-stock adventure, so all advise helps..
I'm not into spitting the case right now, so the welding is out.
So from what I'm understanding, the depth of the sump measured here should be the length I need to extend the pick up tube, so approx 2"3/4"..correct?
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2016 2:11 pm    Post subject: Re: deep sump is holding up my project Reply with quote

1st, how is it that dirty already? 2 who put it on befor the pickup,3 gonna be a bitch to install the studs&pickup. 4 the pickup extension tube needs to seal to the pickup. I usualy use bolts&washers coming down through with locktight. they need to be the right length if your gonna use the capnuts. if the inside is full of dibris your motor wont last long.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2016 2:31 pm    Post subject: Re: deep sump is holding up my project Reply with quote

mark tucker wrote:
1st, how is it that dirty already? 2 who put it on befor the pickup,3 gonna be a bitch to install the studs&pickup. 4 the pickup extension tube needs to seal to the pickup. I usualy use bolts&washers coming down through with locktight. they need to be the right length if your gonna use the capnuts. if the inside is full of dibris your motor wont last long.


Ya, the motor had been sitting on an oily piece of plywood,There was a big rag stuffed in the hole that got pretty saturated. I knew I should have wiped it down before I took the pics, The inside is clean.
I'm understanding that the common way to install the extension is with a clamp and a little 6mm wrench to tighten it up in the hole?
The second pain in the ass with the studs is why "m electing to go with the M6 hex or reg bolts
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2016 2:49 pm    Post subject: Re: deep sump is holding up my project Reply with quote

It's going to be fun putting on the extension tube. I use a slip on piece of tube, jb weld and a SS hose clamp. It's harder to tighten down the strap with both case half's assembled but can be done. You'll have to coat the pickup then slide the extension over. Then drop down the hose clamp with a small 1/4" breaker bar and 1/4 or 5/16" socket. You'll have to smear the jb weld on set up thick and stick around to keep it in place. I use a chopstick half. Lastly smear jb weld all over the clamp once tightened. Don't forget to clean the surfaces with a degreaser or carb cleaner. Taking off the sump should be easier to work. Good luck!
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2016 2:59 pm    Post subject: Re: deep sump is holding up my project Reply with quote

jfats808 wrote:
It's going to be fun putting on the extension tube. I use a slip on piece of tube, jb weld and a SS hose clamp. It's harder to tighten down the strap with both case half's assembled but can be done. You'll have to coat the pickup then slide the extension over. Then drop down the hose clamp with a small 1/4" breaker bar and 1/4 or 5/16" socket. You'll have to smear the jb weld on set up thick and stick around to keep it in place. I use a chopstick half. Lastly smear jb weld all over the clamp once tightened. Don't forget to clean the surfaces with a degreaser or carb cleaner. Taking off the sump should be easier to work. Good luck!


This is the route I'll probably end up going, I have small hands luckily..What do you use for the tubing?
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2016 3:16 pm    Post subject: Re: deep sump is holding up my project Reply with quote

mark tucker wrote:
1st, how is it that dirty already? 2 who put it on befor the pickup,3 gonna be a bitch to install the studs&pickup. 4 the pickup extension tube needs to seal to the pickup. I usualy use bolts&washers coming down through with locktight. they need to be the right length if your gonna use the capnuts. if the inside is full of dibris your motor wont last long.


Good point's Mark. All of this should have been taken care of way before the engine was put in the car Confused I would say take it back out, remove the sump and braze the extension on and re-install everything correctly. Good Luck and Have Fun. Wink
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2016 3:21 pm    Post subject: Re: deep sump is holding up my project Reply with quote

I buy my extension tube kits from Ron at carcraft. Comes with like 3 or 4 different sizes, washers/nuts, and new seals. The tubes come in the right lengths.
Taking the engine out and putting it on its back would be he'll of a lot easier imho. Braising can be easier too. But I have had to add on sumps for clients and done it the above route.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2016 3:30 pm    Post subject: Re: deep sump is holding up my project Reply with quote

At this point, I'd sooner get rid of the deep sump than go through the bother of taking the motor out, I'm not planning an racing it and It does not get very hot here, The need for a deep sump has been open for debate from a lot of people
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2016 3:35 pm    Post subject: Re: deep sump is holding up my project Reply with quote

fes wrote:
At this point, I'd sooner get rid of the deep sump than go through the bother of taking the motor out, I'm not planning an racing it and It does not get very hot here, The need for a deep sump has been open for debate from a lot of people


Good idea.. then you will not be in a rush find (or make) the correct dimension extension tube

You only need a deep sump if you need a deep sump...
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2016 3:47 pm    Post subject: Re: deep sump is holding up my project Reply with quote

VWCOOL wrote:
fes wrote:
At this point, I'd sooner get rid of the deep sump than go through the bother of taking the motor out, I'm not planning an racing it and It does not get very hot here, The need for a deep sump has been open for debate from a lot of people


Good idea.. then you will not be in a rush find (or make) the correct dimension extension tube

You only need a deep sump if you need a deep sump...


I'm in no rush mind you, winter is here for the unforeseeable future, Just want to hear the big cat purr so I can move on to something else..
The previous owner ran an external oil filter, so that explains the lack of screen probably, but does not explain the short pickup tube, He ran this motor the way it is now (mostly) for a couple of years until he sold it to the guy I bought it off of, who did nothing with it other than take off the tin to get it painted (which he never did) Neither of the last owners can explain what happened to the drain plate etc..
I'm wondering If the OG owner just had an extra 1 1/2 of oil and added weight of the sump on the motor for nothing
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2016 4:16 pm    Post subject: Re: deep sump is holding up my project Reply with quote

Then remove it, and install a screen and stock drain plate.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 23, 2016 10:33 am    Post subject: Re: deep sump is holding up my project Reply with quote

as long as I own mine they will not run without a deep sump.just not worth it.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 24, 2016 4:58 pm    Post subject: Re: deep sump is holding up my project Reply with quote

on my 4qt. sump it came w/extender pipes cut on angle(pick the right one) but the strainer middle hole holds it in position as it is snugly inserted and bolted up (cb deep sump)
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 24, 2016 5:23 pm    Post subject: Re: deep sump is holding up my project Reply with quote

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you can have this one--use your old drain plate
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2016 3:52 am    Post subject: Re: deep sump is holding up my project Reply with quote

Everyone has a cpl aluminum adjustable push rod tubes(blue&gold junk)
they fit 'Perfeck' on the pick-up tube
cut a slot w/hacksaw clamp & J B weld it on Wink
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