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chaosisme
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Joined: August 29, 2005
Posts: 1256
Location: Orange County, Ca
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 Posted: Sat Nov 14, 2015 10:54 pm Post subject: Reman. Starters at FLAPS |
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My car has been having some non-starting issues that I think may be related to my starter solenoid. Since it seems cheaper to replace the entire starter, Ive decided on that route and visited my local O'Reilly's tonight.
I had a few questions about starters. First, can I use a starter for an auto Type 3 in my manual? I seem to remember hearing that it was possible but I wanted to be sure.
Second, can anybody verify the part numbers for the correct starter?
The auto starter they had at O'Reilly's was 003 911 023A, which according to my parts manual is a 12V for M249 M-Code, is it for an auto? The manual has a few different part numbers listed for 12V starters.
The part number on the manual starter they had was 001 211 993A, which from what Ive seen is a 6V starter?
Last question. Is there any difference between different remanufacturers, Duralast, Ultima, etc?
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'68 FI Sunroof Squareback
'70 Westy
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1rabbit1981
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Joined: January 31, 2009
Posts: 30
Location: Hilliard Ohio
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| Posted: Sun Nov 15, 2015 5:28 am Post subject: Re: Reman. Starters at FLAPS |
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Definitely go with the auto,self supporting starter.
That way you dont ever need to worry about the
brass starter bushing in the transmission wearing out.
You have checked that,right? |
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Donnie strickland
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Joined: December 21, 2009
Posts: 2403
Location: Moody, AL
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| Posted: Sun Nov 15, 2015 6:20 am Post subject: Re: Reman. Starters at FLAPS |
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Yes, you can use the automatic starter.
The body of the starter should be stamped 6V or 12V.
I don't know of any differences between the various remanufacturers.
But, I'd make sure it's not a worn ignition switch first. That was the problem with mine.
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one4house
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Joined: July 18, 2009
Posts: 1121
Location: Sherman Texas
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| Posted: Sun Nov 15, 2015 7:45 am Post subject: Re: Reman. Starters at FLAPS |
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I recently went through the starter question when putting a 12V engine in a 6V transmission. I ended up going with an Auto-stick starter intended for VW Bugs. The numbers are....
Bosch SR-17x
O'Reilly 16300
Autozone 16300
This starter is self supporting in that it does not have a shaft that protrudes into the bushing opposite of it.......pictures are worth a 1000 words.
See how this starter does not need to use the brass bushing? This starter is also supposed to have a little larger HP rating than the standard starter.
This "auto-stick" starter works in all 12V applications as far as I know.
As for a difference between the starters in type 3's in the auto or manual application, I do not know. If the pictures on RockAuto are correct, the manual trans starter uses the support bushing and the auto trans starter is like an auto-stick in that it is self supporting. If that is the case, either starter should work in your application.
Manual starter.
Auto Starter
The auto starter picture looks 100% like the auto-stick starter I purchased. When I search O'Reilly for "3361280" that I get from the Rock Auto site, it gives me the 16300 I mentioned above: http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/search.oap?keyword=3361280
I hope this helps. ALL OF MY INFO IS ASSUMING WE ARE TALKING ABOUT THE 68 12V SQUAREBACK.
EDIT: I searched RockAuto for "003 911 023A" and it listed the "16300" I mentioned above.
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Donnie strickland
Samba Member
Joined: December 21, 2009
Posts: 2403
Location: Moody, AL
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| Posted: Sun Nov 15, 2015 10:14 am Post subject: Re: Reman. Starters at FLAPS |
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The starter for auto-stick Beetles and automatic Type 3's are one and the same.
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chaosisme
Samba Member
Joined: August 29, 2005
Posts: 1256
Location: Orange County, Ca
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| Posted: Sun Nov 15, 2015 12:09 pm Post subject: Re: Reman. Starters at FLAPS |
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| 1rabbit1981 wrote: |
Definitely go with the auto,self supporting starter.
That way you dont ever need to worry about the
brass starter bushing in the transmission wearing out.
You have checked that,right? |
I had the engine and transmission out last year and I want to say I did but I cant remember.
| Donnie strickland wrote: |
Yes, you can use the automatic starter.
The body of the starter should be stamped 6V or 12V.
I don't know of any differences between the various remanufacturers.
But, I'd make sure it's not a worn ignition switch first. That was the problem with mine. |
What are the symptoms? My ignition cylinder is fairly worn out in that I can remove the key while its running, but when I try to start the car, the fuel pump turns on when I turn the key and when I try to crank it, I can hear the fuel pump slowing down because of the current draw going to the starter. My starter problem has been intermittent and only seems to happen on really hot days, but lately its been happening more often (twice yesterday). However when I turn the key, I can always hear the fuel pump slowing down but no cranking.
Usually, when it happens I just bump start the car, but sometimes if I try it a few times, the starter will work.
_________________
'65 1500 S [quareback]
'68 FI Sunroof Squareback
'70 Westy
OCT3 - Orange County Type 3's |
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chaosisme
Samba Member
Joined: August 29, 2005
Posts: 1256
Location: Orange County, Ca
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| Posted: Sun Nov 15, 2015 12:11 pm Post subject: Re: Reman. Starters at FLAPS |
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| one4house wrote: |
I recently went through the starter question when putting a 12V engine in a 6V transmission. I ended up going with an Auto-stick starter intended for VW Bugs. The numbers are....
Bosch SR-17x
O'Reilly 16300
Autozone 16300
This starter is self supporting in that it does not have a shaft that protrudes into the bushing opposite of it.......pictures are worth a 1000 words.
See how this starter does not need to use the brass bushing? This starter is also supposed to have a little larger HP rating than the standard starter.
This "auto-stick" starter works in all 12V applications as far as I know.
As for a difference between the starters in type 3's in the auto or manual application, I do not know. If the pictures on RockAuto are correct, the manual trans starter uses the support bushing and the auto trans starter is like an auto-stick in that it is self supporting. If that is the case, either starter should work in your application.
Manual starter.
Auto Starter
The auto starter picture looks 100% like the auto-stick starter I purchased. When I search O'Reilly for "3361280" that I get from the Rock Auto site, it gives me the 16300 I mentioned above: http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/search.oap?keyword=3361280
I hope this helps. ALL OF MY INFO IS ASSUMING WE ARE TALKING ABOUT THE 68 12V SQUAREBACK.
EDIT: I searched RockAuto for "003 911 023A" and it listed the "16300" I mentioned above. |
Yeah, those are the starters I saw at O'Reillys. I was confused because I searched the part number when I got home and a 6V starter came up. Looks like I'm going with the auto starter.
NAPA sells Bosch rebuilt starters but they are expensive. The O'Reillys and Autozone starters are like $40 but I know you get what you pay for and I dont want this to be a job I have to do over.
_________________
'65 1500 S [quareback]
'68 FI Sunroof Squareback
'70 Westy
OCT3 - Orange County Type 3's |
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Donnie strickland
Samba Member
Joined: December 21, 2009
Posts: 2403
Location: Moody, AL
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| Posted: Sun Nov 15, 2015 12:52 pm Post subject: Re: Reman. Starters at FLAPS |
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| chaosisme wrote: |
| 1rabbit1981 wrote: |
Definitely go with the auto,self supporting starter.
That way you dont ever need to worry about the
brass starter bushing in the transmission wearing out.
You have checked that,right? |
I had the engine and transmission out last year and I want to say I did but I cant remember.
| Donnie strickland wrote: |
Yes, you can use the automatic starter.
The body of the starter should be stamped 6V or 12V.
I don't know of any differences between the various remanufacturers.
But, I'd make sure it's not a worn ignition switch first. That was the problem with mine. |
What are the symptoms? My ignition cylinder is fairly worn out in that I can remove the key while its running, but when I try to start the car, the fuel pump turns on when I turn the key and when I try to crank it, I can hear the fuel pump slowing down because of the current draw going to the starter. My starter problem has been intermittent and only seems to happen on really hot days, but lately its been happening more often (twice yesterday). However when I turn the key, I can always hear the fuel pump slowing down but no cranking.
Usually, when it happens I just bump start the car, but sometimes if I try it a few times, the starter will work. |
That's what was happening with mine -- I could hear the fuel pump running -- but since my car is an automatic I couldn't bump start it.
The switch contacts get burned and pitted over time, because the full current load has to go through the switch to get to the solenoid. I installed a hard start relay under the back seat so that the relay takes the load, and only a small amount of current goes through the switch. (You can do a search for "Glenn Ring Hard Start Relay".)
The lock cylinder and the electrical part of the switch are two different sections. My lock cylinder is fine, but when I would turn the switch at night I could actually see it arcing.
I got the Autozone starter. No complaints so far.
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one4house
Samba Member
Joined: July 18, 2009
Posts: 1121
Location: Sherman Texas
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| Posted: Mon Nov 16, 2015 5:29 am Post subject: Re: Reman. Starters at FLAPS |
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It is a roll of the dice with the remanufactured starters. The first auto starter I got lasted 30 days before I had to replace it. Its replacement has been fine the last 2 weeks. Like you said, you get what you pay for.
I got mine at O'Reillys. At least their warranty is easy, and a starter replacement is easy. I would rather not do it again myself.
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My Old 66 Squareback
My Old 66 Beetle
My Old 70 Squareback |
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