Author |
Message |
MarkWard Samba Member
Joined: February 09, 2005 Posts: 17155 Location: Retired South Florida
|
Posted: Tue Nov 24, 2020 1:50 pm Post subject: Re: 200hp-300hp Turbo Waterboxer is the US ready? |
|
|
Traveling America, 1/4 mile at a time. You can get away with a lot when it only needs to hold together for a 1/4mile. Top fuel does a tear down between runs. Not saying you can't get the reliability, but 300 hp on a stock bottom end engineered to handle 100hp, decent drivability, decent mpg is ambitious. _________________ ☮️ |
|
Back to top |
|
|
10degnorth Samba Member
Joined: March 07, 2018 Posts: 473 Location: Bend, Oregon
|
Posted: Tue Nov 24, 2020 2:42 pm Post subject: Re: 200hp-300hp Turbo Waterboxer is the US ready? |
|
|
valvecovergasket wrote: |
milrmic wrote: |
I don’t know about Christmastime, but I expect to have the first MansiSpeed turbocharged wbx running in my van not long after we ring in the 2021 new year.
|
i was about to ask what management you guys are planning to be run, but this makes me go "huh?" ...
milrmic wrote: |
I
I’m looking forward to modern EFI, ditching the ancient and always failing AFM, monitoring my motor via OBD2 |
adapting some (i assume vw) obd2 motronic seems a bit too rube-goldberg-ish to work out well, but curious to see how you get on with it.
anyway, back to lurking... |
In talking with Marco a little bit I believe it’s MS based.... but could be wrong on that. _________________ 1984 Wolfsburg Vanagon (Current Project): https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=773912&highlight=
1988 Microsquirted, Wolfsburg Vanagon (Sold): https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=708000&highlight=
Microsquirt Conversion Guide (Work now Discontinued): https://docs.google.com/document/d/1laXykNPbRYS8MT...2imqd2pnx7 |
|
Back to top |
|
|
westyventures Samba Member
Joined: December 29, 2004 Posts: 2306 Location: Oregon Outback
|
Posted: Tue Nov 24, 2020 4:00 pm Post subject: Re: 200hp-300hp Turbo Waterboxer is the US ready? |
|
|
MarkWard wrote: |
Traveling America, 1/4 mile at a time. You can get away with a lot when it only needs to hold together for a 1/4mile. Top fuel does a tear down between runs. Not saying you can't get the reliability, but 300 hp on a stock bottom end engineered to handle 100hp, decent drivability, decent mpg is ambitious. |
Marco has the experience and knows what it takes / doesn't take to withstand different power levels. The bottom end is actually quite robust for a lot more than '100 hp'; that the std. version 2.1 made 95 hp, Euro DJ 112 hp, has nothing to do with what the bottom end will handle. In fact, the stock engine is quite happy to live long at the 150hp turbo level. Above that he recommends upgrades to some internals. This is what I've learned from chatting with him on this, not playing ACE.
"2 posts and both are on Marco's product threads. Looks like someone is schilling for Marco."
Seriously? Have you met Marco, do you know anything at all about his experience AND what he currently works at? |
|
Back to top |
|
|
MarkWard Samba Member
Joined: February 09, 2005 Posts: 17155 Location: Retired South Florida
|
Posted: Tue Nov 24, 2020 4:11 pm Post subject: Re: 200hp-300hp Turbo Waterboxer is the US ready? |
|
|
Karl, I don’t know him personally. I’ve followed this thread and the injector thread with interest. I happened to notice member milrmic had 2 posts total as of this am. Both were tagged to the two threads I’ve been following.
I probably won’t be the first one in line to get a Covid vaccination either. 200 - 300 hp reliable with a wbx is ambitious. That’s all I’m really commenting on. _________________ ☮️ |
|
Back to top |
|
|
DanHoug Samba Member
Joined: December 05, 2016 Posts: 4799 Location: Bemidji, MN
|
Posted: Tue Nov 24, 2020 4:21 pm Post subject: Re: 200hp-300hp Turbo Waterboxer is the US ready? |
|
|
but but but.... how many trannies out there will withstand the extra HP? i see some grinding and gnashing of teeth for the unsuspecting. because, who WOULDN'T light up their tires on a Vanagon if you could?! all i've gotten is a squawk. _________________ -dan
60% of what you find on the internet is wrong, including this post.
'87 Westy & '89 Westy both 2.1 4spd
Past projects can be found at--
www.thefixitworkshop.com |
|
Back to top |
|
|
westyventures Samba Member
Joined: December 29, 2004 Posts: 2306 Location: Oregon Outback
|
Posted: Tue Nov 24, 2020 5:12 pm Post subject: Re: 200hp-300hp Turbo Waterboxer is the US ready? |
|
|
MarkWard wrote: |
Karl, I don’t know him personally. I’ve followed this thread and the injector thread with interest. I happened to notice member milrmic had 2 posts total as of this am. Both were tagged to the two threads I’ve been following.
I probably won’t be the first one in line to get a Covid vaccination either. 200 - 300 hp reliable with a wbx is ambitious. That’s all I’m really commenting on. |
The stock DJ is 112, add just the updated fuel/ignition system and it's a big step closer, add some forced induction and 200 is no stretch at all. Knowing what I do about Marco and his work, IF I was to want to keep a wbx in the engine bay I'd be 'first in line'. Engines and decreasing one's chance of acquiring a deadly disease tenfold is a strange comparison though. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
?Waldo? Samba Member
Joined: February 22, 2006 Posts: 9752 Location: Where?
|
Posted: Tue Nov 24, 2020 5:13 pm Post subject: Re: 200hp-300hp Turbo Waterboxer is the US ready? |
|
|
DanHoug wrote: |
who WOULDN'T light up their tires on a Vanagon if you could?! |
[raises hand]
I could and I wouldn't (at least not with one of the stock vanagon transmissions). |
|
Back to top |
|
|
DanHoug Samba Member
Joined: December 05, 2016 Posts: 4799 Location: Bemidji, MN
|
Posted: Tue Nov 24, 2020 5:25 pm Post subject: Re: 200hp-300hp Turbo Waterboxer is the US ready? |
|
|
?Waldo? wrote: |
DanHoug wrote: |
who WOULDN'T light up their tires on a Vanagon if you could?! |
[raises hand]
I could and I wouldn't (at least not with one of the stock vanagon transmissions). |
yeah, i hear you. i'd squawk the tires every now and then before i read all about these transaxle issues and rebuilt my own. it was a PITA to do and i'm a three finger shifter now, mebbe two. but back in the day, vanagons were cheap and disposable. in HS, we'd drive around in an old breadloaf and "make it hop like a bunny" by getting on and off the throttle. uff ta.
but i've got enough gray hair to fondly recall the heyday of V8s, cheap gas, and bald tires. _________________ -dan
60% of what you find on the internet is wrong, including this post.
'87 Westy & '89 Westy both 2.1 4spd
Past projects can be found at--
www.thefixitworkshop.com |
|
Back to top |
|
|
milrmic Samba Member
Joined: May 19, 2017 Posts: 8
|
Posted: Tue Nov 24, 2020 8:27 pm Post subject: Re: 200hp-300hp Turbo Waterboxer is the US ready? |
|
|
MarkWard wrote: |
2 posts and both are on Marco's product threads. Looks like someone is schilling for Marco. |
Nah, I’ll be getting the first one so I’m just looking forward to it. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
milrmic Samba Member
Joined: May 19, 2017 Posts: 8
|
Posted: Tue Nov 24, 2020 8:50 pm Post subject: Re: 200hp-300hp Turbo Waterboxer is the US ready? |
|
|
westyventures wrote: |
"2 posts and both are on Marco's product threads. Looks like someone is schilling for Marco."
Seriously? Have you met Marco, do you know anything at all about his experience AND what he currently works at? |
Yeah, I ignored the ad hominem because it’s off topic and worthless. Why only two posts? Because I’m commenting on Facebook and not the samba... typically. But I am brand loyal. I happen to like Marco’s products. He does the research and knows what he’s doing. He delivers. Is he fast? Nope, not by a long shot. But I’m not looking for fast; I’m looking for quality, and that’s what Marco delivers in spades every single time without fail. Call it shilling if you want, but I live down the road from the guy and am in his shop more regularly than I should be because I’m regularly learning something new from him.
While I’m on a brand loyal kick, I recently bought a starter adapter from you, Karl, instead of knockoff. Why? Because you put in the time and came up with the adapter, so you earned my brand loyalty, too. Shilling? Nope, it’s called a well earned reputation and I’m happy to share my satisfaction.
Hey, that’s THREE posts on the samba! |
|
Back to top |
|
|
gumbajv Samba Member
Joined: April 23, 2005 Posts: 217
|
Posted: Wed Nov 25, 2020 7:48 am Post subject: Re: 200hp-300hp Turbo Waterboxer is the US ready? |
|
|
I was one of the early res ponders to this post. I bought a long block from Marco in 2017 in anticipation of the turbo kit. At 7,000 ft elevation a turbo is the way to go. If I don't sell the Doka before the kit comes out, I'll buy the kit and install it.
I think 200 h.p. will be adequate, but not neck snapping, tire burning performance. 300+ h.p. would be more entertaining .
A friend who builds racing Porsche & VW gear boxes states the trans will handle 200 h.p. with no issues. So unless you start doing high rpm launches and burn outs you should be fine.
To some point, the more power the less stain on the motor. In the Doka ('86 2.1), going up a hill on the freeway, the gas pedal is floored. I'm doing 60-65mph. That motor is working a lot harder than my 3.3 400+ h.p. turbo motor in my '68 crewcab.
Compared to the alternatives, Porsche 3.2, which are now way too expensive, a Subi, which would require a fair amount of prep work, a small block Chev, or electric, this seems like the least expensive option. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
?Waldo? Samba Member
Joined: February 22, 2006 Posts: 9752 Location: Where?
|
Posted: Wed Nov 25, 2020 8:26 am Post subject: Re: 200hp-300hp Turbo Waterboxer is the US ready? |
|
|
gumbajv wrote: |
To some point, the more power the less stain on the motor. In the Doka ('86 2.1), going up a hill on the freeway, the gas pedal is floored. |
I assume you meant 'strain' rather than 'stain'.
Increasing the power of the engine increases the strain on the engine and other drive train components. If the power is increased, then just because the pedal is no longer floored as often does not mean the engine is strained less, quite the opposite. As a good example, if you placed a 1" thick block of wood under your accelerator pedal, you would be driving with the pedal floored (against the wood) far more often. The engine and drivetrain would be much less strained than if you removed that piece of wood and pushed the pedal further. Your 2.1 is considerably less strained right now when your pedal is floored than it would be if its output was increased and you were able to take the same grades even faster without the pedal floored. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
MarkWard Samba Member
Joined: February 09, 2005 Posts: 17155 Location: Retired South Florida
|
Posted: Wed Nov 25, 2020 8:59 am Post subject: Re: 200hp-300hp Turbo Waterboxer is the US ready? |
|
|
Looking forward to seeing the completed installation and hearing driving impressions. I'm a big fan of the 2.1 as is. Pictures or it didn't happen. _________________ ☮️ |
|
Back to top |
|
|
gumbajv Samba Member
Joined: April 23, 2005 Posts: 217
|
Posted: Wed Nov 25, 2020 9:25 am Post subject: Re: 200hp-300hp Turbo Waterboxer is the US ready? |
|
|
Yes, strain, no stain.
I disagree with your statement. The speed limit here is 75mph on the freeway, which, to me means your pretty much floored most of the time on the flats, and all the time on the hills, and still not maintain the speed limit. A higher speed isn’t going to put that much extra strain on the trans. Also, being able to cruise at the speed limit would be nice, a trade off I’d be fine with. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
?Waldo? Samba Member
Joined: February 22, 2006 Posts: 9752 Location: Where?
|
Posted: Wed Nov 25, 2020 9:45 am Post subject: Re: 200hp-300hp Turbo Waterboxer is the US ready? |
|
|
Floored or not floored, the amount of power the engine is producing is equal to the amount of strain on the engine components. The pedal position is irrelevant. You can disagree with that if you want but that doesn't make you right.
I'm not saying that the 2.1 engine cannot handle the added strain of producing more power. I'm also not saying that adding a turbo is a bad choice. Saying that the engine will be less strained is wrong, though, and is a disservice to anyone who might believe you. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Steve Arndt Samba Member
Joined: August 01, 2005 Posts: 1780 Location: Boise, Idaho
|
Posted: Wed Nov 25, 2020 1:22 pm Post subject: Re: 200hp-300hp Turbo Waterboxer is the US ready? |
|
|
milrmic wrote: |
monitoring my motor via OBD2, and being able to run my A/C while accelerating uphill! |
No OBD2. The kit uses Microsquirt.
Go Westy carb legal EFI does have OBD2. _________________ Steve
Steve's 87 Syncro project |
|
Back to top |
|
|
andor Samba Member
Joined: June 21, 2007 Posts: 44 Location: Norway
|
Posted: Wed Nov 25, 2020 2:58 pm Post subject: Re: 200hp-300hp Turbo Waterboxer is the US ready? |
|
|
I have been driving my wbx turbo for a couple of years now.
It’s a 1.9 stock high mileage original engine with 0.7 bar boost.
Makes my heavy high roof Westy follow traffic on the highway and steep hills easy without flooring it.
I have a 2.2 in the works mostly stock, only some small hipo parts... and a little bigger turbo..
The wbx is a very solid base even for high hp turbo engines!
So 180-220 hp on stock parts would be safe in my book.
Forged pistons and better rods (bolts) on the list above that.
C |
|
Back to top |
|
|
hdenter Samba Member
Joined: October 14, 2008 Posts: 2754 Location: San Luis Obispo, CA
|
Posted: Wed Nov 25, 2020 3:09 pm Post subject: Re: 200hp-300hp Turbo Waterboxer is the US ready? |
|
|
Nice! That about 10psi. Got any pictures to show us? Is that just added on to the stock digijet FI or have moved on to aftermarket EFI?
Hans _________________ '79 triple white convertible bug
'84 sunroof vanagon
'85 weekender |
|
Back to top |
|
|
andor Samba Member
Joined: June 21, 2007 Posts: 44 Location: Norway
|
Posted: Wed Nov 25, 2020 3:48 pm Post subject: Re: 200hp-300hp Turbo Waterboxer is the US ready? |
|
|
hdenter wrote: |
Nice! That about 10psi. Got any pictures to show us? Is that just added on to the stock digijet FI or have moved on to aftermarket EFI?
Hans |
Aftermarket efi: Maxxecu.
Build pict..
Installed:
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
hdenter Samba Member
Joined: October 14, 2008 Posts: 2754 Location: San Luis Obispo, CA
|
Posted: Wed Nov 25, 2020 5:34 pm Post subject: Re: 200hp-300hp Turbo Waterboxer is the US ready? |
|
|
That looks great! What model of turbo is that?
Hans _________________ '79 triple white convertible bug
'84 sunroof vanagon
'85 weekender |
|
Back to top |
|
|
|