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rockerarm
Samba Member
Joined: December 16, 2009
Posts: 3552
Location: Los Angeles
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 Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2016 12:29 pm Post subject: Re: Solution!!! found 10mm swivel foot adjusters for type 4 rock |
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| SGKent wrote: |
| rockerarm wrote: |
| euro911 wrote: |
| I run Brad Penn 20/50 in all my air-cooled motors. |
If you can find it!! I'm in the local LA area and couldn't find this "mysterious oil" when Web Cams suggested it. WTF. They, the cam manufacturer, stated Shell Rotella 30 was cool for break-in. I'm currently using the diesel/dual rated 15w-40 oils from Shell and/or Chevron. And never looked back!!
Whose shop out there wants to tell client/customer I have to order motor oil!! WTF.
A very credible Porsche magazine, Exellence, stated, years ago, that 911 owners were experiencing valve tip wear using the, at the time popular Mobil 1, popular synthetic oils. This oil was the very popular 911/air-cooled oil. Duh, they have the very similar, if not identical valve adjusters we are adapting.
I know the VW/Porsche has an addiction towards the Castrol GTX oils. Damn, I'd use it in my air filter.
Bill |
amazon and Summitracing sell it. Ebay is full of it. Pretty easy to find but most of the dealers want to sell a case, which is how I buy it. |
Steve, there is no way I'm gonna order motor oil for myself. I have built my reputation on basically daily driven air-cooled cars, within the SoCal area, with people who needed/loved their air-cooled cars. While my work, in this area, has been reduced realistically over 90%, because of retirement, health, vw industry, I could not tell a client that I needed to special order his/her motor oil, when in fact my personal daily driver cars have survived on the over the counter diesel/dual rated oils. I know over the years that what was spec'd then ain't spec'd now. Sorry, my rant. I know I've been able to buy air-cooled parts in the Los Angeles' area at nearly every place but recognize this is changed, over the few decades, but realize I have to drive for my needed parts. At my level I need to be smarter and plan the needed work for myself/clients.
There really needs to be an established recommendation, here on thesamba, for folks with different spec's on engines. We all have flat tappet cam/lifters but there obviously needs to be some identifiable differences.
Thanks, Bill. |
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airschooled
Air-Schooled
Joined: April 04, 2012
Posts: 12721
Location: on a bike ride somewhere
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| Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2016 12:53 pm Post subject: Re: Solution!!! found 10mm swivel foot adjusters for type 4 rock |
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Bill,
These cars were deemed "obsolete" by their manufacturers over three decades ago. Their lifter style following just a few years after. You mean to say that you won't order oil because it's difficult for you? Or you think that your customers should not have to "stoop so low" as to have to order oil from a specialty source?
VR1 can be had at any FLAPS nationwide. Dello and Rotella can also be had anywhere for cheap. Or, if you're willing to risk more work, you can recommend the Autozone brand "oil" for $2.49 per quart. Or don't recommend anything, we're not making you do it……
Robbie
_________________
Learn how your vintage VW works. And why it doesn't!
One-on-one tech help for your Volkswagen:
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rockerarm
Samba Member
Joined: December 16, 2009
Posts: 3552
Location: Los Angeles
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| Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2016 1:25 pm Post subject: Re: Solution!!! found 10mm swivel foot adjusters for type 4 rock |
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Thanks Robbie for your reply.
I have been a SoCal air-cooled guy since the day out of high school. When the VW scene, meaning aftermarket cam/lifters, began experiencing the pitting/running flat, the robust diesel oils were the rescue. The Berg shop was on top of this eventually selling the Pennzoil Racing oils, 25w-50, as I recall. It all stemmed from a lack of additives, as we all know now. This research, from the aftermarket guys, seemed to blossom the "aftermarket/boutique" oils that we see now, and this includes the very rich zddp additives in a bottle. Very fine, but it is my opinion that there needs to be a differential between a hi horsepower car, rarely driven, and the daily driven vw with some improvements/upgrades who does not need to order his/her motor oil, as an appropriate motor oil still exists on the shelves in the majority of stores. I was blessed off by Web Cams to use the Rotella oil when I could not easily locate the preferred Brad Penn oil. Mind you, I'm in the heart of the hot rod scene here and have personal dealings with a few speed shops, non VW, who have no issue with ordering/using this oil. It is my preference to be able to afford myself and clients with an easily available lubricant to satisfy their needs.
These cars may be obsolete, as stated, but us tech's are determined to stay ahead of the issues. I have known about the lifter style history for over a decade, and so has a host of other engine styles.
Hope this helps, Bill.
By the way Robbie, how's your trip going? I'll check your threads. |
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heiko910
Samba Member
Joined: November 15, 2013
Posts: 221
Location: Gardnerville, NV
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| Posted: Sat Sep 10, 2016 12:45 pm Post subject: Re: Solution!!! found 10mm swivel foot adjusters for type 4 rock |
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Hey guys,
I received a new bulk order of 10mm swivel foot adjusters. Those will fit your stock type 4 rocker arms with some slight modification.
Look for them in the classifieds!
Greetings,
Heiko |
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williamM
Samba Member
Joined: August 07, 2008
Posts: 4333
Location: southwest Arizona
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| Posted: Sat Sep 10, 2016 1:24 pm Post subject: Re: Solution!!! found 10mm swivel foot adjusters for type 4 rock |
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Heiko- was one of your first customers- but stuff got in the way- any thing new to install or oil recommendations? right now your discovery is sitting in a 2.0 on the motor stand w- flat tops and 1800 big valve heads waiting the conversion back to FI. Currently in solid lifters, but also have a bus (7 with hydros that don't want to pump up. Any difference in install for hydo's vs solids besides the clearances?
Look forward to not hearing from them. Compared to others- these look like quality and look forward the the run up
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some days I get up and just sit and think. Some days I just sit.
opinion untempered by fact is ignorance.
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heiko910
Samba Member
Joined: November 15, 2013
Posts: 221
Location: Gardnerville, NV
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| Posted: Sat Sep 10, 2016 1:27 pm Post subject: Re: Solution!!! found 10mm swivel foot adjusters for type 4 rock |
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Here they are
Same German manufacturer. Same price. $85 including shipping in the US for a set of eight.
Shoot me a PM
Last edited by heiko910 on Sat Sep 10, 2016 1:39 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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heiko910
Samba Member
Joined: November 15, 2013
Posts: 221
Location: Gardnerville, NV
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| Posted: Sat Sep 10, 2016 1:34 pm Post subject: Re: Solution!!! found 10mm swivel foot adjusters for type 4 rock |
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| williamM wrote: |
Heiko- was one of your first customers- but stuff got in the way- any thing new to install or oil recommendations? right now your discovery is sitting in a 2.0 on the motor stand w- flat tops and 1800 big valve heads waiting the conversion back to FI. Currently in solid lifters, but also have a bus (7 with hydros that don't want to pump up. Any difference in install for hydo's vs solids besides the clearances?
Look forward to not hearing from them. Compared to others- these look like quality and look forward the the run up |
I only have experience with swivel foot adjusters in solid lifter type 4s. I personally would not use swivel foot adjusters in hydro lifter engine. The swivel needs lubrication. The lash gives the adjuster time to lube up. In hydro engines you don't have lash. But it is worth trying out.
I looked into high ZDDP oil and I guess it is a good idea (especially for new engines) to use some high sink oil. Brad Pen 20w50 sounds like a good option. VR1 race oil is also a high sink option. |
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Busstom
Samba Member
Joined: November 23, 2014
Posts: 3841
Location: San Jose, CA
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| Posted: Sat Sep 10, 2016 2:41 pm Post subject: Re: Solution!!! found 10mm swivel foot adjusters for type 4 rock |
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heiko, I haven't perused this thread in quite a while...could you provide a brief description of the minor mod required to make these work?
I am in-process rebuilding a 2 liter with solid lifters and new H.A.M. heads, and these swivel feet are probably a good idea to preserve my valve tips. Besides, my existing stock adjusting screws are toast from being slapped with the hydros for so many years.
Thanks!
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My name's Steve and it's pronounced "Bust 'em" (cuz people think I'm Tom) 😏 |
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piledriver
Samba Member
Joined: June 05, 2003
Posts: 184
Location: In my bunker, beside my wall. (Howe, Tx)
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| Posted: Sat Sep 10, 2016 3:32 pm Post subject: Re: Solution!!! found 10mm swivel foot adjusters for type 4 rock |
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Don't use these with hydros, it won't go well, or for long.
You have been warned.
The rocker mod consists of grinding or milling 1.5-2mm off the valve side of the rocker arm adjuster screw end to make room for the adjusters foot.
When you have the rocker geometry right (usually 1,5-2mm hardened washer under the rocker pads, may need to square off 2 sides) the screws may end up too long and want to pound little vent holes in the valve covers..., and need shortened and slotted with a dremel tool + reinforced cutoff wheel---this on the 911 screws, these custom ones may have been made shorter.
The rocker shaft must_be_ raised to get the rocker geometry ~correct as the pivot point is now at the center of the foots pivot ball, not the valve face as with the std screws.
(T1 or T4)
. The 1.5-2mm rocker shaft shim spec is a good starting place, and is pretty much in the range of a std grade 8 3/8" washer. (just make sure all 8 are exactly the same)
This of course assumes you are doing it right and finding the ideal length for your new cut-to-length pushrods...
OTOH the swivel feet allow you to get away with slightly imperfect geometry without killing the valve guides in a few thousand miles.:-/
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Current daily driver---73 Square, 1.8L T4, MS3+MS3X/sequential w/LS2 coils 80 miles/day. |
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heiko910
Samba Member
Joined: November 15, 2013
Posts: 221
Location: Gardnerville, NV
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| Posted: Sat Sep 10, 2016 5:11 pm Post subject: Re: Solution!!! found 10mm swivel foot adjusters for type 4 |
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| heiko910 wrote: |
Hey guys,
quick update.
The install is progressing. I have ground down the rocker arms a bit (about 1.5mm). I am also considering to use a thin shim under the rocker shafts and then check what the geometry looks like.
Here is youtube video I made:
https://youtu.be/h4YAduhknhw
Don't take of to much material (watch out for the oiling hole). I made sure that the ground down surface is parallel to the top of the rocker arm. First I used a bench grinder and then a flapper wheel on a dremel to deburr. I will also counter sink the hole a little bit but I first have to buy a nice counter sinker (needs to be hard enough for this rocker arm material).
I guess I also should give Christmas some attention.
Six sets are sold. I have five more available. If you are interested send me a PM.
Merry Christmas,
Heiko |
Hey Busstom,
This is for you.the install I did. I will quote another post for you that showed all the parts I used. |
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heiko910
Samba Member
Joined: November 15, 2013
Posts: 221
Location: Gardnerville, NV
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| Posted: Sat Sep 10, 2016 5:12 pm Post subject: Re: Solution!!! found 10mm swivel foot adjusters for type 4 |
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| heiko910 wrote: |
So, my M10 swivel foot install is nearing an end.
here just to recap what I had to do to make them fit.
1. I had to order several parts to make this project complete
#1 solid rocker Shaft spacers (type4store.com)
#2 HD rocker shaft studs (The end the rocker shaft sits in is now M8x1.25 instead M7) Bought at Europenmotorworks.com. remember to use anti seize on the end that goes into the cylinder head
#3 M8x1.25 nut class 10.9 (the studs came with Nyloc nuts only class 8  and I really don't want to use nyloc inside an aircooled engine)
#4 8mm wave washers
#5 shim kit for rocker shaft (also ordered from EMW, kit comes with three different thickness shims 8x0.5 mm, 8x0.8 mm, 8x1.5 mm)
#6 maybe you want to also get some new jam nuts for the swivel foot adjusters (M10x1 get something quality like the OEM jam nuts VW uses)
2. take valve covers off
3. take rocker shaft assembly off
4. Make sure you remember which rocker goes where because the 8 rockers that you have on your engine a pretty much all different. I only had two rockers with the same part #. I kept them as sets(#1 for cylinder 1, #2 for cylinder 2 and so on..)
5. I measured how much clearance I would have to find between valve shaft and rocker to make the swivel foot fit, have enough clearance for adjustment and give the swivel foot enough space to swivel. The cylindrical part of the swivel foot is 5 mm high. you need a little more then 5 mm for the swivel action. When I took the rockers off, i didn't move or change the adjustment of the stock adjusters. I used a caliper to measure how far the stock adjusters extend from the rocker arm. In 7 of 8 cases that was about 3.5 to 4.5 mm. With just a little bit of grinding (~1.5mm material of the underside of the rocker arm) I would have already had enough clearance for the swivel foot. In one case it was only 1.5mm.
6. I started with grinding the underside of the rocker arms. The rocker arms were not all the same thickness. Most were about 12.5 to 13 mm thick but luckily the rocker arm from that one valve where I would have greater clearance issues was 13.5 mm thick (that helped). I ground down the rocker arms so they were all 11.5 mm thick after I was done. that means on some I only removed 1 mm on that one particular one I took 1.8 mm off.
7. I counter sunk all rocker arms just a little bit which gives the swivel foot more room to swivel. The skinnier part of the swivel foot literally fits into the 10 mm thread inside the rocker arm which makes that work really well.
8. I used the thinnest shim out of the shim kit from EMW (0.5 mm thick). This shim barely changes the stock geometry but helped me with my low clearance situation on cylinder one.
9. Installed the new solid spacers between the rocker arms.
10. cleaned everything up and lubed everything with assembly lube (especially those swivel feet)
11. I took the old rocker shaft studs out (just jam to stock nuts against each other and then use a wrench to take the studs out)
12. put some anti seize on the M10 end of my new HD rocker shaft studs and put them into the cylinder head (again I had to jam to nuts against each user to be able to screw the new studs in)
13. Now I put the rocker shaft assemblies back on (including the newly installed swivel foot adjusters  )
14. the solid spacer kit from type4store comes with instructions. I had to sand some of the spacers down a bit since the fit was to tight. (you only need a flat surface and some 220 grid sandpaper. (the spacer is aluminum, which is easy to sand, also has to steel shims that go between the spacer and each rocker)
Looks like EMW also sells solid spacer they might be solid steel. I went with the three piece version form type4store.
15. after fitting of the spacers was completed I started with the final install of the newly put together rocker shaft assemblies. Started at cylinder one with the distributor rotor pointing at the cylinder # 1 mark and the piston in TDC position. I installed the rocker shafts onto the new studs. Stock rocker shaft nuts get torqued with 14Nm the thicker once from EMW get a little more (instruction said 15ft/lbs which is about 20Nm)
16. after torquing the shafts I adjusted valves just like you would with stock adjusters.
17. turned the engine 180 degree counterclockwise and did the same assembly steps on cylinder #2 ... repeat for cylinder # 3 and 4 just turn engine 180 degree counterclockwise each time and make sure piston is in TDC
18. don't forget to put the push rod tube retainer back in and make sure it is positioned correctly (see my picture down below)
and this is what it look like once installed
If you have questions don't hesitate to ask. If you are intrested in a set of swivel foot adjusters just PM me.
Greetings and Happy New Year everyone,
Heiko |
Hey Busstom,
This is for you too. |
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Busstom
Samba Member
Joined: November 23, 2014
Posts: 3841
Location: San Jose, CA
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| Posted: Sat Sep 10, 2016 9:52 pm Post subject: Re: Solution!!! found 10mm swivel foot adjusters for type 4 rock |
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Excellent, thank you for bumping up the tutorial.
I just sent you a PM.
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My name's Steve and it's pronounced "Bust 'em" (cuz people think I'm Tom) 😏 |
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williamM
Samba Member
Joined: August 07, 2008
Posts: 4333
Location: southwest Arizona
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| Posted: Sun Sep 11, 2016 6:59 am Post subject: Re: Solution!!! found 10mm swivel foot adjusters for type 4 rock |
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Is your ad still up?
_________________
some days I get up and just sit and think. Some days I just sit.
opinion untempered by fact is ignorance.
Don't step in any! |
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heiko910
Samba Member
Joined: November 15, 2013
Posts: 221
Location: Gardnerville, NV
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| Posted: Sun Sep 11, 2016 8:37 am Post subject: Re: Solution!!! found 10mm swivel foot adjusters for type 4 rock |
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| williamM wrote: |
| Is your ad still up? |
Ad is up and running.
Just got a fresh delivery of adjusters but supply is limited.
, Heiko |
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heiko910
Samba Member
Joined: November 15, 2013
Posts: 221
Location: Gardnerville, NV
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| Posted: Sun Sep 25, 2016 8:05 pm Post subject: Re: Solution!!! found 10mm swivel foot adjusters for type 4 rock |
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Hey guys,
Just a quick update.
Sold five sets of my current bulk order. Only four sets left.
If you have questions post here or PM me.
Greetings,
Heiko |
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heiko910
Samba Member
Joined: November 15, 2013
Posts: 221
Location: Gardnerville, NV
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| Posted: Sat Nov 12, 2016 10:34 am Post subject: Re: Solution!!! found 10mm swivel foot adjusters for type 4 rock |
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Update:
I have now about 6000miles on the German made 10mm swivel foot adjusters and the valve train is still tight and quiet. No signs of wear on the swivel feet whatsoever.
I think key to sucess is the install and the modification of the rockers.
The swivel foot needs enough room to articulate and with the outlined methods here in this thread it can be achieved.
This modification can quiet down your valve train and safe you valve shafts over time.
Greetings,
Heiko |
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heiko910
Samba Member
Joined: November 15, 2013
Posts: 221
Location: Gardnerville, NV
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| Posted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 7:02 pm Post subject: Re: Solution!!! found 10mm swivel foot adjusters for type 4 rock |
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I have three sets left.
Get them quick before they are all gone.
Knut just got a set shipped today.
Thanks for the purchase Knut.
Greetings,
Heiko |
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heiko910
Samba Member
Joined: November 15, 2013
Posts: 221
Location: Gardnerville, NV
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| Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2016 2:49 pm Post subject: Re: Solution!!! found 10mm swivel foot adjusters for type 4 rock |
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Hey guys,
the adjusters are going fast. Thanks to Len and Randy for the purchase.
Let me know if you want your set of swivel foot adjusters.
Greetings,
Heiko |
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74 Thing
Samba Member
Joined: September 02, 2004
Posts: 7390
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| Posted: Wed Nov 23, 2016 2:24 am Post subject: Re: Solution!!! found 10mm swivel foot adjusters for type 4 rock |
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Is there any slop in the ball and socket swivel head? ie if you pull on the swivel can you feel a click or is it nice and tight?
The reason I ask is I bought a Berg set a while back and there is slop in that ball/socket swivel, but when I picked up a Porsche swivel for comparison there was no slop at all. |
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heiko910
Samba Member
Joined: November 15, 2013
Posts: 221
Location: Gardnerville, NV
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| Posted: Wed Nov 23, 2016 9:57 am Post subject: Re: Solution!!! found 10mm swivel foot adjusters for type 4 rock |
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If I remember correctly they are swiveling freely but have no excessive play. I just shipped my last set, so I have no adjuster here to play with and verify my information. Maybe one of the guys that just recently bought a set from me can help out.
Let me know if anyone of you is interested in 10mm swivel foot adjusters. I am ready to put another batch order together if there is the demand.
So at the moment they are sold out but I can get more.
I would also appreciate feedback from you guys.
Greetings,
Heiko |
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