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My 412 these days..
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ClassicCamper
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 25, 2015 9:40 pm    Post subject: My 412 these days.. Reply with quote

After many posts and guidance from this forum, I learned that I had a special car. These are a rare breed, and require MUCH preventative TLC. I must admit, I almost gave up and sold the car. i realize that I'm the curator of this car, more so than an owner.

I want to thank everyone for their patience, support and guidance. Because of this, I'm making strides each day towards making it a reliable driver. Ray/Lars, a special shout out to you both in particular.

Can not tell you how rewarding it was driving her tonight (32 degrees) with my newly rebuilt Eberspacher BA-4 humming effortlessly. Could not have done it without you!

Here she is as of today:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



If anyone has leads on the belt line aluminum molding please PM me.
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oasis
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 25, 2015 9:54 pm    Post subject: Re: My 412 these days.. Reply with quote

ClassicCamper wrote:
If anyone has leads on the belt line aluminum molding please PM me.

I don't but I am copying this so it doesn't get lost in the shuffle.

That's one beautiful wagon! Cool
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raygreenwood
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 25, 2015 10:04 pm    Post subject: Re: My 412 these days.. Reply with quote

Very niiiiice!

Also its nice that our gent from Sweden confirmed that the headliner kits from Acme actually fit these cars! Sweet!

Every once in a quarter century....proper parts appear and its one less thing to fabricate. Very Happy
Ray
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ClassicCamper
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 25, 2015 10:04 pm    Post subject: Re: My 412 these days.. Reply with quote

Thanks much Oasis!
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ClassicCamper
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 25, 2015 10:44 pm    Post subject: Re: My 412 these days.. Reply with quote

Quote:
Very niiiiice!

Also its nice that our gent from Sweden confirmed that the headliner kits from Acme actually fit these cars! Sweet!


Hey Ray, thanks. You really helped me get through that bear of a D-Jet engine. It runs nice now. I'd say she's 90% to perfect. If the headliner looks as good as Pelle's pic, I'll be in great shape. Ron
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raygreenwood
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 26, 2015 7:42 am    Post subject: Re: My 412 these days.. Reply with quote

ClassicCamper wrote:
Quote:
Very niiiiice!

Also its nice that our gent from Sweden confirmed that the headliner kits from Acme actually fit these cars! Sweet!


Hey Ray, thanks. You really helped me get through that bear of a D-Jet engine. It runs nice now. I'd say she's 90% to perfect. If the headliner looks as good as Pelle's pic, I'll be in great shape. Ron


Totally agree! I have been down the headliner road so many times over three decades....that its nice to see a product that actually has the right pattern.

I actually know my stitch free version will work awesome...but its one less thing to do. Ray
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Lars S
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 26, 2015 10:50 pm    Post subject: Re: My 412 these days.. Reply with quote

Thats a great car!
After all your hard work its good to hear she's running sweet and looking really nice! Love that color too...


/Lars S
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VW412 4-d, -73, Gold Metallic, daily driver
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raygreenwood
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 27, 2015 7:15 am    Post subject: Re: My 412 these days.. Reply with quote

Lars S wrote:
Thats a great car!
After all your hard work its good to hear she's running sweet and looking really nice! Love that color too...


/Lars S


Yes...that has to be L96M...Marathon blue metallic. That is the color my car came with and will be going back with. Ray
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ClassicCamper
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 02, 2015 11:50 am    Post subject: Re: My 412 these days.. Reply with quote

Thanks Lars! I love this ride. Still some fine tuning, but my favorite of my fleet of 4. LOL.
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titan3c
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 16, 2015 6:32 am    Post subject: Re: My 412 these days.. Reply with quote

Good looking car. I followed most of your post during your rework on this car, but I forgot what you did about the gasoline heater. Did you rework it or have it done? I have a pretty nice 71 sedan I've had since new(that tells you how old I am). and I feel the heater should be gone over. Right now I'm afraid to use it because I've let it sit for years without using it, and that wasn't good. If there is someone who specializes in these units I would let them do it. On my car it's hard to get to, but think I could get it out. May even require removing the engine. Bob
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raygreenwood
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 16, 2015 7:32 am    Post subject: Re: My 412 these days.. Reply with quote

titan3c wrote:
Good looking car. I followed most of your post during your rework on this car, but I forgot what you did about the gasoline heater. Did you rework it or have it done? I have a pretty nice 71 sedan I've had since new(that tells you how old I am). and I feel the heater should be gone over. Right now I'm afraid to use it because I've let it sit for years without using it, and that wasn't good. If there is someone who specializes in these units I would let them do it. On my car it's hard to get to, but think I could get it out. May even require removing the engine. Bob


They are not too hard to work with. You can start by removing it an post what you have. We can help. Ray
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titan3c
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 16, 2015 12:51 pm    Post subject: Re: My 412 these days.. Reply with quote

Is there just some basic things that can be done without removing it. I know there is an access thru the rear window shelf, but I think that only gets you to the glow plug, but perhaps more. If it has to be removed I think it's possible by just removing the left rear wheel, and drive shaft. Bob
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 16, 2015 2:36 pm    Post subject: Re: My 412 these days.. Reply with quote

titan3c wrote:
Is there just some basic things that can be done without removing it. I know there is an access thru the rear window shelf, but I think that only gets you to the glow plug, but perhaps more. If it has to be removed I think it's possible by just removing the left rear wheel, and drive shaft. Bob


The glowplug and coil wire can be accessed through the service plate on the back deck.

If you are a glutton for punishment...you can feed new fuel line through the hold down loops in the chassis from below...and change it...but its a very tight, frustrating and unsure job...changing the fuel line through that little access plate.

The fuel line MUST be changed no less than every two years...back in the days when fuel line of known quality and no ethanol.
Now days...I would get rid of rubber fuel line.

Many years ago...I went to 3/16" steel fuel line. It took about an hour to bend it until it seemed to fit where it had to go fairly closely.

I then removed the heater....and attached the top end of the steel line to the nipple on the heater with a 3/16" brass pressure union. I had to lightly polish the ferule and the nut for the 3/16" union to slip over the metric nipple on the heater. I tightened the union until the ferule and nut were permanently attached to the heater nipple and then unscrewed the union.

I did maintenance on and resealed the heater blower (cleaned and gapped both sets of points, put in a new o-ring, cleaned the flame probe, gapped and cleaned the glowplug and sealed with a thin smear of high temp RTV)....all of which is so much easier to do with the heater out of the car.

Once the heater is in....feed the stainless line up to the nipple. Tighten it on with a wrench through the plate opening. Then do some bending/tweaking of the steel line down below to fit right. I connected it to the pump with a short rubber fuel line nipple and two clamps.

A whole lot less worry about fuel line leakage and fire. I check the union to make sure its tight and leak free every winter. Ray
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Lars S
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 16, 2015 10:45 pm    Post subject: Re: My 412 these days.. Reply with quote

titan3c wrote:
... If it has to be removed I think it's possible by just removing the left rear wheel, and drive shaft. Bob


Is it possible to remove the heater other than to first remove the Engine?

/Lars S
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Porsche 914 -72, Bahia Red daily driver Smile
VW411 2-d -70, White, sold Sad
VW412 4-d, -73, Gold Metallic, daily driver
Suzuki T500, -69, Candy Gold, sold Sad
Suzuki K50, -77, Black, daily driver
BMW R69S -69, White, sold Sad
Husqvarna 118cc, -47, Black, Sold Sad
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raygreenwood
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2015 11:44 am    Post subject: Re: My 412 these days.. Reply with quote

Lars S wrote:
titan3c wrote:
... If it has to be removed I think it's possible by just removing the left rear wheel, and drive shaft. Bob


Is it possible to remove the heater other than to first remove the Engine?

/Lars S


Yes....just a little tricky. All the wires have to be disconnected, blower removed, fuel line removed....possibly the coil as well. Then there are four M-6 nuts on the support studs with rubber isolaters. Some systems like mine also had the flame trap attached to the blower motor.

Of course the hoses and exhaust pipe need to come off as well.

I cant remember if I have done this with the automatic trans...but have done it with the four speed. Ray
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Lars S
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2015 12:42 pm    Post subject: Re: My 412 these days.. Reply with quote

Thanks Ray,
and then you just slide the heater out to the left side without removing the driveshaft ?
Lars S
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Porsche 914 -72, Bahia Red daily driver Smile
VW411 2-d -70, White, sold Sad
VW412 4-d, -73, Gold Metallic, daily driver
Suzuki T500, -69, Candy Gold, sold Sad
Suzuki K50, -77, Black, daily driver
BMW R69S -69, White, sold Sad
Husqvarna 118cc, -47, Black, Sold Sad
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titan3c
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2015 1:22 pm    Post subject: Re: My 412 these days.. Reply with quote

Ok----I'm beginning to catch-on. My car has never had any ethanol gasoline, and I'm currently using 91 octane pure gasoline.

Probably the best thing for me to do is remove the unit by whatever means it takes, and do the job right. I feel like I should remove the engine, and give it good going over anyway. It's never been removed or even had a valve job. It's not possible for me to remove it by myself, but there are capable people available. My biggest concern is that no one around here knows the type 4, and there are some things that should be known in removing the engine peculiar to the type 4. I learned that thru one of Ray's posts. This engine still has the original flexible fuel lines, and most hoses. I know that's probably not good. I have replaced the fuel lines connecting to the fuel pump. Bob
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2015 2:03 pm    Post subject: Re: My 412 these days.. Reply with quote

Lars S wrote:
Thanks Ray,
and then you just slide the heater out to the left side without removing the driveshaft ?
Lars S


Going off memory....i dont think i had to remove the driveshaft. Ray
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2015 2:09 pm    Post subject: Re: My 412 these days.. Reply with quote

titan3c wrote:
Ok----I'm beginning to catch-on. My car has never had any ethanol gasoline, and I'm currently using 91 octane pure gasoline.

Probably the best thing for me to do is remove the unit by whatever means it takes, and do the job right. I feel like I should remove the engine, and give it good going over anyway. It's never been removed or even had a valve job. It's not possible for me to remove it by myself, but there are capable people available. My biggest concern is that no one around here knows the type 4, and there are some things that should be known in removing the engine peculiar to the type 4. I learned that thru one of Ray's posts. This engine still has the original flexible fuel lines, and most hoses. I know that's probably not good. I have replaced the fuel lines connecting to the fuel pump. Bob


Thats VERY risky. Even before ethanol....typically all fuel lines need rplacing about every 2.5 years. You can go a little longer if using lines of very high quality.

Its not really just an ethanol issue. The rubber formulations have been changing and have shown issues even with non ethanol fuels.

The heater fuel line.....back in the rubber fuel line days......I always installed it with about 6" spare because it needed to have the heater end cut off to present frssh hose to the clamp area. Before i started that.....it leaked at the beginning of EVERY winter. Hot summers and the fact that the top end of the hose gets baked crom the heater unit heat every winter.....means you have to pay close attention to it. The metal line makes that less of a worry. Ray
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ClassicCamper
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 18, 2015 5:11 am    Post subject: Re: My 412 these days.. Reply with quote

titan3c wrote:
Good looking car. I followed most of your post during your rework on this car, but I forgot what you did about the gasoline heater. Did you rework it or have it done? I have a pretty nice 71 sedan I've had since new(that tells you how old I am). and I feel the heater should be gone over. Right now I'm afraid to use it because I've let it sit for years without using it, and that wasn't good. If there is someone who specializes in these units I would let them do it. On my car it's hard to get to, but think I could get it out. May even require removing the engine. Bob


Hi there Bob, Thanks for the shout out. Well, I'm joing the party a little late but will give you the low-down on how I attacked the gasoline heater. If I had to guess, my heater was most likely non-operational for about 25-30 years. (Basically the car's whole life in California). I admire the fact that you still own the car after all this time.

First, let me start by saying that I removed the heater twice, once with the engine and transmission removed, one without.

1) Initial removal was simple with engine and automatic transmission out of the way. Here is what I did during that first phase:

- Re-created a wire harness as PO had many wires cut away and/or removed.
- Checked heater body for any damage, rot, etc. and cleaned it inside and out.
- Removed the combustion motor from heater body and learned by trial and error that the points need to be inspected, cleaned and gapped on both sides of that motor for proper operation of both the fuel pump and coil.
- Removed and cleaned that spiral screen thing attached to the bottom of the combustion motor. (that may not be applicable to your year, however)
- Ran new fuel line (it was a type of rubbber fuel injection hose). I live on the NJ coast and know someone who services Espar marine gasoline heaters; he recommended a type of rubber fuel injection line that he said was good for 5 years plus. In addition, he gave me a fuel filter to use; I can send you a link where to purchase if you would like. He inspected the nipple that feeds gas into the heater itself and said there is practically 'no risk' of the nipple separating from my heater body, even at its age. However, Ray mentioned numerous times that he has worked on loads of these cars and suggests replacing the fuel lines much more frequently than my Tech friend did. Ray further recommended using steel piping to feed fuel into the unit. That is outside my expertise, so I opted for the fuel injection hose. I could try to dig up the hose I used if you would like. One final note: Although I've restored many a VW, this is my first time with the gas heater. I can only tell you what the Tech told me, and its a matter of personal choice. I'd never want to put you in a position where the safety of you or your car is a risk. All I can offer up is what the Tech told me and how mine is currently plumbed up. Ray really seems to know his stuff, so I'd err on the side of caution. Personally, I'll likely have my friend replace the fuel line every 36 months.
- Next, I tested the system with engine/trans still out of car (that was a bit tricky, but PM me if you need specifics, and I be glad to detail out what I did) Note: By test, I mean run the system only to gauge the function of the mechanical parts. I didn't run fuel through it at this juncture.
- Finally, I asked Ray the last of my 100,000 questions and mounted the heater back up and triple checked that all hoses were plumbed in and routed correctly under the newly installed drivetrain.

2) The second removal was done with auto trans and engine installed.

- The issue I was having is that the impeller/fan for the combustion motor is very sensitive to how it is fastened back on its shaft as it relates to its distance from the motor housing. If its not perfect, it will make an annoying scraping sound. I learned that the hard way.
- The heater was tricky to get out this way but I did eventually slide it out with all heater wiring, bellows, exhaust pipe, combustion motor and drivers side half shaft removed. I had to walk away from it a few times to re-gain my patience, but it came out with some coaxing.
- I than adjusted the impeller correctly for the combustion motor and reassembled.

Then..the fuel pump stopped ticking. Ugh! After combing the Samba, it was suggested to soak it in diesel fuel to remove debris and any gummed up fuel; that worked like a charm!

When I finally wired up the engine and got the car running, it was time to fire up the heater. Nothing happened. Reached out to Ray with another endless string of questions. I smelled fuel in the exhaust pipe, but furnace wouldn't fire up.

Here is what was going on:

Both fans were running
Fuel pump was delivering fuel to combustion chamber
Glow plug was glowing
All fuses under seat were fine and 'circuit breaker' switch was not tripped

I went out on a limb and took an extra Bosch blue engine coil I had and wired that in temporarily on a hunch the coil may be faulty or worse yet, something went wrong or malfunctioned with the points in the combustion motor.

I turned the heater timer knob with Bosch coil hooked up and WHOOSH! She fired up, I could'nt be happier. The cabin filled up with some light smoke, so I opened the wimdows and let everything air out, and within about 15 minutes, it was flawless. When I turned the heater off, it ran on as it was supposed to. I'm assuming that's for letting the combustion chamber cool down a bit and expelling any residual gas fumes.

I was the only guy riding around in my car with my gas heat blasting when it was 65 degrees out. I just find the thing so cool. I was able to source a replacement coil from Hoggs VW in Canada. The were great to work with.

Well, I hope that helped you out a bit, from my perspective at least. I also have a BA4 'trouble shooting' guide. If you would like, I can copy it for you. Just PM me you address.

Merry Christmas, - Ron
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