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77 vw bus won't shift into gear!
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getmyvwontheroad!
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 15, 2015 1:28 am    Post subject: Re: 77 vw bus won't shift into gear! Reply with quote

I've tried researching and reading manuals to try and understand, I'm just lost! I've visited the links that have been posted, but I'm still confused Shocked Mad

What does 28* BTDC mean? Sorry for the questions, I'm sure it's simple. This is my first time doing maintenance on it, other than changing the oil and spark plugs.
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Tom Powell
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 15, 2015 1:43 am    Post subject: Re: 77 vw bus won't shift into gear! Reply with quote

getmyvwontheroad! wrote:
And I checked out the How to Keep your VW Alive from the library a few months ago, guess I'll go back and grab it again ! And thanks for the axle explanation, makes sense now


Check out the book from the library again and read up in it.
Better yet, buy a copy for yourself.
http://www.amazon.com/s/?ie=UTF8&keywords=how+...2n1h3_b_p2

A Bentley is the shop manual, but it doesn't have the explanations that the Muir book does.
http://www.amazon.com/Volkswagen-Station-Wagon-Ser...ley+manual

You'll find information about your CV joints in the Muir book.

BTDC is before top dead center
that is the ignition timing spec

Aloha
tp
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Tcash
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 15, 2015 9:53 am    Post subject: Re: 77 vw bus won't shift into gear! Reply with quote

The videos should help.

Timing -
28* BTDC at 3500rpm hoses off
Timing
Vintage VW Training Film - Ignition Timing Part 1
Vintage VW Training Film - Ignition Timing Part 2
Vintage VW Training Film - Ignition Timing II

Good luck
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getmyvwontheroad!
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 15, 2015 5:08 pm    Post subject: Re: 77 vw bus won't shift into gear! Reply with quote

So I think the problem may be bigger than the timing or it could be a result of bad timing. I fired up the bus today and it was idling really low at about 600 rpms and I was looking at the motor/exhaust and saw black or dark brownish bits spitting out the exhaust? It looked almost like oil and I was able to see it sitting inside the exhaust. It looked like a liquid ball before it would come out. Does anyone have any idea about this?
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 15, 2015 6:14 pm    Post subject: Re: 77 vw bus won't shift into gear! Reply with quote

getmyvwontheroad! wrote:
So I think the problem may be bigger than the timing or it could be a result of bad timing. I fired up the bus today and it was idling really low at about 600 rpms and I was looking at the motor/exhaust and saw black or dark brownish bits spitting out the exhaust? It looked almost like oil and I was able to see it sitting inside the exhaust. It looked like a liquid ball before it would come out. Does anyone have any idea about this?


Sounds like dirty condensate, if so it is perfectly normal to see such when a cold engine has first been fired up. So long as the exhaust pipes are below the dew point of the exhaust gases this will happen.
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getmyvwontheroad!
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 15, 2015 9:23 pm    Post subject: Re: 77 vw bus won't shift into gear! Reply with quote

Okay thanks for that, so as far as the timing, I watched the vids and it explained what goes on with the spark plugs/distributor and what not but I didn't catch how to set the actual timing.

Also I can't seem to find these "notches" on the pulley that I would line up? How am I supposed to know top dead center?
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 15, 2015 9:44 pm    Post subject: Re: 77 vw bus won't shift into gear! Reply with quote

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ulQmKU2weyI

Aloha
tp
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getmyvwontheroad!
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 15, 2015 9:49 pm    Post subject: Re: 77 vw bus won't shift into gear! Reply with quote

Tom Powell wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ulQmKU2weyI

Aloha
tp

Will this method work on my 77 fuel injected bus? I can't seem to find the valve cover on mine?
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 15, 2015 9:54 pm    Post subject: Re: 77 vw bus won't shift into gear! Reply with quote

getmyvwontheroad! wrote:
... I can't seem to find the valve cover on mine?


The valve covers are on top of the cylinder heads.

Aloha
tp
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 15, 2015 10:08 pm    Post subject: Re: 77 vw bus won't shift into gear! Reply with quote

Will oil come out when the valve cover is opened? I saw video and oil was dripped out Shocked
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 15, 2015 10:10 pm    Post subject: Re: 77 vw bus won't shift into gear! Reply with quote

getmyvwontheroad! wrote:
Will oil come out when the valve cover is opened? I saw video and oil was dripped out Shocked


Some, but not much.

Aloha
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 15, 2015 11:46 pm    Post subject: Re: 77 vw bus won't shift into gear! Reply with quote

getmyvwontheroad! wrote:
Okay thanks for that, so as far as the timing, I watched the vids and it explained what goes on with the spark plugs/distributor and what not but I didn't catch how to set the actual timing.

Also I can't seem to find these "notches" on the pulley that I would line up? How am I supposed to know top dead center?


A Type 4 engine is going to have a timing scale as per below. The metal scales are white and the plastic ones are black, but either will do the job.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


The pulley is going to have a tiny V notch on the forward rim for the TDC mark. If no one has painted the mark it can be hard to locate. You may need to run your fingernail or a knife blade along the forward rim of the pulley to locate the mark. The mark really needs to be painted, why people don't do this is beyond me. I have the V notch painted and then have a line filed in the outer rim which is also painted, makes life that much easier.
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getmyvwontheroad!
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 16, 2015 9:22 am    Post subject: Re: 77 vw bus won't shift into gear! Reply with quote

Mine has the plastic timing scale on it, just no notches. I read you can find top dead center by listening for air out of the first spark plug? Or taking off the valve cover to see the valves? Is this accurate? And here's my engine
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 16, 2015 9:35 am    Post subject: Re: 77 vw bus won't shift into gear! Reply with quote

getmyvwontheroad! wrote:
Mine has the plastic timing scale on it, just no notches. I read you can find top dead center by listening for air out of the first spark plug? Or taking off the valve cover to see the valves? Is this accurate? And here's my engine
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


You need the exact TDC not an approximation. Do as I suggested and run your fingernail along the forward rim of the pulley. You could also use a knife blade or anything else that will pick up the minor indentation of the V notch. There is an off chance you might have a pulley off of a Porsche/411/412 which used a timing mark in a different location, there are remedies for this, but first you need to be absolutely sure that you don't already have the proper bus style timing mark.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 16, 2015 12:15 pm    Post subject: Re: 77 vw bus won't shift into gear! Reply with quote

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


It looks like you have an MSD ignition system. Possibly with wire nut connections.

Aloha
tp
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getmyvwontheroad!
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2015 2:44 pm    Post subject: Re: 77 vw bus won't shift into gear! Reply with quote

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Do you think that red mark could be from the previous owner? I turned the pulley until the distributor rotor was pointing at the first spark plug on the distributor. Could that be top dead center?
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2015 3:09 pm    Post subject: Re: 77 vw bus won't shift into gear! Reply with quote

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getmyvwontheroad!
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2015 3:14 pm    Post subject: Re: 77 vw bus won't shift into gear! Reply with quote

Alright so the notch is right behind the red mark, so it looks like it is. I just pointed it to top dead center, should it be moved to 7.5 btdc?
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2015 6:10 pm    Post subject: Re: 77 vw bus won't shift into gear! Reply with quote

TDC on a Type 4 engine is when the timing mark lines up with the zero on the timing scale and not with the parting line of the case.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2015 6:14 pm    Post subject: Re: 77 vw bus won't shift into gear! Reply with quote

Wildthings wrote:
TDC on a Type 4 engine is when the timing mark lines up with the zero on the timing scale and not with the parting line of the case.

oh okayy thanks, so I would move it to the 0 on the scale or 7.5 on the scale to set the timing?
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