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77 vw bus won't shift into gear!
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Wildthings
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2015 6:26 pm    Post subject: Re: 77 vw bus won't shift into gear! Reply with quote

getmyvwontheroad! wrote:
Wildthings wrote:
TDC on a Type 4 engine is when the timing mark lines up with the zero on the timing scale and not with the parting line of the case.

oh okayy thanks, so I would move it to the 0 on the scale or 7.5 on the scale to set the timing?


To set the timing you need to set it to 7.5*.
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getmyvwontheroad!
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2015 6:31 pm    Post subject: Re: 77 vw bus won't shift into gear! Reply with quote

Wildthings wrote:
getmyvwontheroad! wrote:
Wildthings wrote:
TDC on a Type 4 engine is when the timing mark lines up with the zero on the timing scale and not with the parting line of the case.

oh okayy thanks, so I would move it to the 0 on the scale or 7.5 on the scale to set the timing?


To set the timing you need to set it to 7.5*.


Alright I'm catching on now Laughing it's a little easier to follow along with your answers, and once the notch is pointing at 7.5 on the scale I should be good and that's all I need to do?
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busdaddy
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2015 6:44 pm    Post subject: Re: 77 vw bus won't shift into gear! Reply with quote

getmyvwontheroad! wrote:
Wildthings wrote:
getmyvwontheroad! wrote:
Wildthings wrote:
TDC on a Type 4 engine is when the timing mark lines up with the zero on the timing scale and not with the parting line of the case.

oh okayy thanks, so I would move it to the 0 on the scale or 7.5 on the scale to set the timing?


To set the timing you need to set it to 7.5*.


Alright I'm catching on now Laughing it's a little easier to follow along with your answers, and once the notch is pointing at 7.5 on the scale I should be good and that's all I need to do?

When the engine is running and you look at the pulley with a strobe light the notch should appear to be stopped at 7.5 when idling.

It doesn't sound like you are ready for a lesson on maximum mechanical advance yet, let not make things too confusing.
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getmyvwontheroad!
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2015 6:55 pm    Post subject: Re: 77 vw bus won't shift into gear! Reply with quote

busdaddy wrote:
getmyvwontheroad! wrote:
Wildthings wrote:
getmyvwontheroad! wrote:
Wildthings wrote:
TDC on a Type 4 engine is when the timing mark lines up with the zero on the timing scale and not with the parting line of the case.

oh okayy thanks, so I would move it to the 0 on the scale or 7.5 on the scale to set the timing?


To set the timing you need to set it to 7.5*.


Alright I'm catching on now Laughing it's a little easier to follow along with your answers, and once the notch is pointing at 7.5 on the scale I should be good and that's all I need to do?

When the engine is running and you look at the pulley with a strobe light the notch should appear to be stopped at 7.5 when idling.

It doesn't sound like you are ready for a lesson on maximum mechanical advance yet, let not make things too confusing.

So the strobe light is just to verify that it's at 7.5 when running? I saw someone use a test light after setting the belt to 7.5, is that possible instead of the strobe?
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busdaddy
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2015 7:24 pm    Post subject: Re: 77 vw bus won't shift into gear! Reply with quote

getmyvwontheroad! wrote:
busdaddy wrote:
getmyvwontheroad! wrote:
Wildthings wrote:
getmyvwontheroad! wrote:
Wildthings wrote:
TDC on a Type 4 engine is when the timing mark lines up with the zero on the timing scale and not with the parting line of the case.

oh okayy thanks, so I would move it to the 0 on the scale or 7.5 on the scale to set the timing?


To set the timing you need to set it to 7.5*.


Alright I'm catching on now Laughing it's a little easier to follow along with your answers, and once the notch is pointing at 7.5 on the scale I should be good and that's all I need to do?

When the engine is running and you look at the pulley with a strobe light the notch should appear to be stopped at 7.5 when idling.

It doesn't sound like you are ready for a lesson on maximum mechanical advance yet, let not make things too confusing.

So the strobe light is just to verify that it's at 7.5 when running? I saw someone use a test light after setting the belt to 7.5, is that possible instead of the strobe?

Not accurately with any distributor used with the type 4 engine, it's OK to get it in the ballpark for a limp home, but the strobe is really the best and safest way to do it.
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Wildthings
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2015 9:59 pm    Post subject: Re: 77 vw bus won't shift into gear! Reply with quote

The timing is 7.5* before TDC when running at base idle (~900rpms) with the hoses disconnected and plugged.
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getmyvwontheroad!
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2015 10:40 pm    Post subject: Re: 77 vw bus won't shift into gear! Reply with quote

Alright I'll just try and pick up a strobe light tomorrow, if that isn't possible how do you turn the distributor to test it with a testing light? Because I do have one of those. Thanks!
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Wildthings
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 18, 2015 2:46 am    Post subject: Re: 77 vw bus won't shift into gear! Reply with quote

Timing lights are not very expensive and are typically still readily available, with these older rigs they are just something you need to own especially since you have a electronic ignition and not the stock contact points. Since most people own newer cars and never have any reason to use a timing light any more, used lights often of high quality can be had used for almost nothing, a year ago I picked up an entire Sun tuneup kit for little more than pocket change from a roadside vendor.
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stwesty
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 3:21 pm    Post subject: Re: 77 vw bus won't shift into gear! Reply with quote

getmyvwontheroad! wrote:
Alright I'll just try and pick up a strobe light tomorrow, if that isn't possible how do you turn the distributor to test it with a testing light? Because I do have one of those. Thanks!


Definitely pick up a strobe light and also a compression tester for once you're done your timing. Neither cost a lot and both are easy to use.

To turn the distributor, loosen this nut and then grasp the distributor metal body with your hand and rotate it:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


The central shaft doesn't turn, just the body around it. This changes the angle of the distributor rotor which completes the spark circuit with the four metal contacts as it spins around in the plastic distributor head, hence changing the timing(!) of sparks relative to the turning of the engine and piston positions.

The timing information on the internet and in books is incredibly confusing. I went through this all recently. Fortunately people in this thread have already pointed out a bunch of the key areas likely to cause confusion:

- line up the mark on your pulley with the scale for type 4s, not the engine seam
- don't rely on articles that talk about lining things up with a mark on you distributor since you don't know if the distributor has been installed at the usual angle
- timing numbers in books and on the internet are all over the place, use the ones others have mentioned in this thread*

Also, watch the videos TCash linked to, they will give you a basic understanding of what is going on. Too many articles try to explain things by giving you a trick or two but don't explain why you should do something.

(* I'm still not clear why different timing angles are listed for automatics vs manuals in most books and why you'd ever want an angle AFTER TDC... maybe someone can clear that up without causing a threadjacking)
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