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Terry Gaudet 
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Joined: March 11, 2004
Posts: 399
Location: New Brunswick, Canada
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 Posted: Sun Dec 06, 2015 12:58 pm Post subject: Neiman steering lock - no key |
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Hey there,
I'm trying to remove a steering lock from an old 66 bus. I did a search and found that I have to remove a little pin that is barely visible to remove the keyed lock mechanism so I can turn the barrel to unlock the column.
The post dates back to 2008 and was hoping someone had a more recent suggestion to remove this unit from the steering column without grinding around the pin and trying to pull it out. Here are pics of the lock in the bus.
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Terry Gaudet
1950 Beetle Standard
1955 Canadian Custom
1956 Kombi w/SO23 kit
1965 Kombi walkthrough
1965 Double Cab |
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Clara
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Joined: June 14, 2003
Posts: 12400
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| Posted: Sun Dec 06, 2015 5:20 pm Post subject: Re: Neiman steering lock - no key |
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Put the bus on a trailer and take it to a good locksmith. Or see if they make house calls.
I had a locksmith make a key for the steering lock in the 65 westy I used to own. It was not locked when I got the bus, so I had installed a non locking ig switch, got the bus running, and stopped at the locksmith one day.
This locksmith had been in business when the bus was new. The old guy did the work.
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Daddybus
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Joined: June 15, 2000
Posts: 1653
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| Posted: Sun Dec 06, 2015 5:35 pm Post subject: Re: Neiman steering lock - no key |
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There is a small hole on the black housing. If you insert a small jewler's screwdriver into the hole and push, the lock cylinder should pop out. After the lock cylinder is out, follow the steps below.
Step 1: Write down the key code from the lock cylinder
Step 2: Call my VTO buddy Gabe the Key guy (214) 673-1033 & give him the code.
Step 3: Gabe cuts you a key from the code and mails it to you.
Step 4: Use key |
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Bruce Amacker
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Joined: December 26, 2007
Posts: 1786
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
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BarryL
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Joined: November 01, 2004
Posts: 14266
Location: Casa de Oro, California
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| Posted: Sun Dec 06, 2015 7:26 pm Post subject: Re: Neiman steering lock - no key |
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If it's a '67 (or later replacement) you can push down into the bottom of the threaded hole that the bolt goes in to release the cylinder. All the other ones you have to pull the one time pin.
Edited by myself as this is wrong information.
As Daddybus said a couple posts up, there is a pin hole push release but that style is '67 only. There are instructions on how to do it in the Bentley 1963-1967 page E-12 4b.
The hole is not down through the threaded hole but next to it. You will need the key in and the barrel turned to on so you pull outward once you have the pin pushed down.
All the earlier ones still require extracting the close side pin near the "garage" word.
Last edited by BarryL on Thu Dec 10, 2015 9:53 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Stocknazi
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Joined: June 18, 2004
Posts: 5150
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| Posted: Tue Dec 08, 2015 7:33 am Post subject: Re: Neiman steering lock - no key |
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| Clara wrote: |
Put the bus on a trailer and take it to a good locksmith. Or see if they make house calls.
I had a locksmith make a key for the steering lock in the 65 westy I used to own. It was not locked when I got the bus, so I had installed a non locking ig switch, got the bus running, and stopped at the locksmith one day.
This locksmith had been in business when the bus was new. The old guy did the work. |
This is probably your easiest/quickest solution.
There is an older locksmith I go to to have keys cut by code; I always like to see someone have to pull out all the old books and blow the dust off them; I know i've found the right guy for the job.
If he starts typing in his/her computer, I know i'm screwed.
I found the key to a pre-67 steering lock underneeth the front floor mat; rusty as hell. I took it up to the locksmith, he cut a key, made some small adjustments on the grinder afterwards; worked perfectly first time.
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"Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God."
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Clara
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Joined: June 14, 2003
Posts: 12400
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| Posted: Tue Dec 08, 2015 8:00 am Post subject: Re: Neiman steering lock - no key |
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| BarryL wrote: |
| If it's a '67 (or later replacement) you can push down into the bottom of the threaded hole that the bolt goes in to release the cylinder. All the other ones you have to pull the one time pin. |
Yes, the fahrt start is different than the 67 & later.
I installed a later (post L series) ignition cylinder in a 67 bus steering lock once. You can find the new cylinders with key NOS. I think they are used in 69 & later buses and bugs.
The fahrt start version is trickier. I would find your old school locksmith who, like StockNazi said, knows how to look stuff up in books.
This sort of locksmith will also be able to cut split bus door keys to code and is a good local resource. They often have cool old keys in a glass fronted display cabinet.
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ToolBox
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Joined: January 27, 2004
Posts: 3439
Location: Detroit, where they don't jack parts off my ride in the parking lot of the 7-11
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| Posted: Tue Dec 08, 2015 10:35 am Post subject: Re: Neiman steering lock - no key |
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| Bruce Amacker wrote: |
| Are you sure about that? Usually pushing in the pin only works when the key is in the "on" position. Otherwise, there's no sense in having a locking column if you only need a punch to push the pin in. |
Bruce,
On the earlier locks you coud pull the key out in the off position and not lock the column. If it is in the garage position it is locked. |
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Terry Gaudet
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Joined: March 11, 2004
Posts: 399
Location: New Brunswick, Canada
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| Posted: Tue Dec 08, 2015 6:10 pm Post subject: Re: Neiman steering lock - no key |
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Thanks for all the comments. I will get busy trying to find the areas where I can try to release the lock cylinder. Once I get it out I will contact Gabe and have the proper key done.
The bad part about the setup I have is the PO took a pair of vise grips to the threaded area of the steering shaft to try and break the steering lock. I mean.....really......????
I'll be using the metal rounded plates on this column and weld them to the other one I have and will install in my 13w deluxe.
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Terry Gaudet
1950 Beetle Standard
1955 Canadian Custom
1956 Kombi w/SO23 kit
1965 Kombi walkthrough
1965 Double Cab |
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Stocknazi
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Joined: June 18, 2004
Posts: 5150
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| Posted: Tue Dec 08, 2015 8:30 pm Post subject: Re: Neiman steering lock - no key |
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| Terry Gaudet wrote: |
Thanks for all the comments. I will get busy trying to find the areas where I can try to release the lock cylinder. Once I get it out I will contact Gabe and have the proper key done.
The bad part about the setup I have is the PO took a pair of vise grips to the threaded area of the steering shaft to try and break the steering lock. I mean.....really......????
I'll be using the metal rounded plates on this column and weld them to the other one I have and will install in my 13w deluxe. |
There was another thread someone posted recently concerning the damaged shaft threads; I would try to use the thread die first and see if you can clean up those threads. There is a link to that die in the thread.
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WANTED:
58 Westfalia cabinet knobs (3 needed), roof rack, and (7) privy tent poles (silver painted).
"When the people are afraid of the government, that's tyranny. But when the government is afraid of the people, that's liberty."
"Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God."
Thomas Jefferson |
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BarryL
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Joined: November 01, 2004
Posts: 14266
Location: Casa de Oro, California
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| Posted: Wed Dec 09, 2015 9:42 am Post subject: Re: Neiman steering lock - no key |
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Are you saying that the steering lock is in the locked position holding the steering shaft from turning? Or are you saying all you want is the lock barrel out to rekey? In the picture the barrel is locking the shaft.
Depending on your reply there is an option.
Clara, the '67 pop-out barrel/cylinder style say, "Halt, Garage, Fahrt/Start" also. |
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Clara
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| Posted: Wed Dec 09, 2015 9:57 am Post subject: Re: Neiman steering lock - no key |
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| BarryL wrote: |
Clara, the '67 pop-out barrel/cylinder style say, "Halt, Garage, Fahrt/Start" also. |
Really? I thought the 67 style was plain, and took the longer / L key. The fahrt start 61/62-66 style had the earlier cylinder not compatible with the plain/ 67 style steering lock. The earlier cylinder was also used on (66 and earlier) bugs IIRC.
Then there is an earlier style for late 50s buses, and a barndoor style, but I think a steering lock was standard equipment for euro buses from 1963, so that is the style seen most, and was in the 65 westy I drove for ~ ten years.
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BarryL
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Location: Casa de Oro, California
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| Posted: Thu Dec 10, 2015 10:07 am Post subject: Re: Neiman steering lock - no key |
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No. I'm wrong.
I was going by the picture in the Bentley 1963-1967 which appears to have the wordage but using a magnifier it does not say "Fahrt/Start" and is plain (page E-12 4b). Also I was wrong about the push pin location so I edited my earlier post.
I went to look at my parts stash as I assumed the threaded hole was where the access to the pin was but never could figure out why it would be so far back from the actual barrel depth. I assumed it was down the threaded hole for security reasons. Sheesh.
You are right-on regarding the incompatibility of the two barrels (earlier vs '67). '67 only barrel seems to fit Beetle, Square, and Bus as well. |
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Vermeulen
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Location: Belgium
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BarryL
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Location: Casa de Oro, California
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| Posted: Thu May 17, 2018 10:39 am Post subject: Re: Neiman steering lock - no key |
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| Vermeulen wrote: |
| is this the place to get the cylinder out ? |
Yes. The pin has to be pulled out most of the way.
| Vermeulen wrote: |
| Any tool i can use ? |
Old locksmiths used to have tiny drills to make a hole in the center of the pin and little screws with a tiny slide-hammer to extract it.
Or you can drill a hole on each side of the pin and use needle-nose pliers or a hemostat. Then when you put it back use a larger screw and grind the slot away after intall.
| Vermeulen wrote: |
| In wat stand need the key to be to get it out[/img] |
Put key in and turn before pulling pin then pull out on the barrel with the key in. |
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Vermeulen
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Posts: 250
Location: Belgium
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| Posted: Thu May 17, 2018 10:44 am Post subject: Re: Neiman steering lock - no key |
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Thanx verry helpfull
So that means i will to remove the whole lock and bring it to a locksmith who knows something about these
Or would it be possible to make a new key from the old one ? Hes pretty worn out and its not so easy to turn the key
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BarryL
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Location: Casa de Oro, California
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| Posted: Thu May 17, 2018 11:04 am Post subject: Re: Neiman steering lock - no key |
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Before assuming the key is worn, there are so many more reasons that the barrel won't rotate freely. It could be the steering wheel is turned and holding the tongue. It could be the inside of the lock barrel where it transfers the pins and has springs.
But try this first before you rule in the lock cylinder; on the left side remove the wire cover and take off the two screws then pull away the whole electric mechanism then retest the cylinder. If the cylinder turns free then the problem is in the rotating electric switch. |
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Vermeulen
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Location: Belgium
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| Posted: Thu May 17, 2018 9:25 pm Post subject: Re: Neiman steering lock - no key |
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If you mean this thing , problem stays the same , verry difficult to turn , i need to play with the key
there is alot of play on the key in the cilinder , thats why i think a new key would maybe help a little. or alot
Link
I need to play with the key to get it turned , i even got it in lock but it took me like 3 min to get it out again. Really had to wiggle and push and pull the key while turning .
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Vermeulen
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BarryL
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Location: Casa de Oro, California
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| Posted: Fri May 18, 2018 11:07 am Post subject: Re: Neiman steering lock - no key |
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Get the lock out and post pictures of it. You can remove the two steering column bracket screws then there is a bolt behind the speedometer pod that must come undone. DISCONNECT THE BATTERY before the next step. It is very hard to get to but with a 13mm open end you can loosen it. You almost need a child's hand to unscrew it. Unlock the lock and the whole thing can be lowered to use a drill on it.
I use these little drills and tool to remove one in place or on the workbench.
I have the little hand grip chuck but I put it into my drill motor.
Sometimes just going up one size drill and it will be tight enough to pull on the pin.
These can be used to go down the center of the pin or drill around the pin.
You most likely need to grease your main lock to the column mechanism too. |
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