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ctstinnette
Samba Member
Joined: March 21, 2005
Posts: 17
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 Posted: Mon Dec 21, 2015 6:23 pm Post subject: Ball joints too tight |
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I've recently completed installing a 2" narrowed adjustable beam and dropped spindles. I decided to change the ball joints at the same time. Now that all the work is done and the car lowered at both ends, I'm ready for alignment but the steering is super tight and the steering won't return to center on its own. I consider the car unsafe to drive. I'm hesitant to spend the money on alignment if this is a permanent situation.
Does anyone have any experience with this situation? Do ball joints have a "break in" period? |
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dlamyle
Samba Member
Joined: March 29, 2013
Posts: 28
Location: Northern Virginia
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| Posted: Mon Dec 21, 2015 7:54 pm Post subject: Re: Ball joints too tight |
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Yeah, I had the same problem. Saw posts saying some aftermarket ball joints were too big and when pressed in became too tight and never wore in. Others said to give it some time. I gave it a couple of years of minimal driving and they finally feel better. I'm sure you could expedite that wait time with some spirited miles on some bumpy roads.
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wcfvw69 
Samba Purist
Joined: June 10, 2004
Posts: 13389
Location: Arizona
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| Posted: Mon Dec 21, 2015 8:27 pm Post subject: Re: Ball joints too tight |
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Have you isolated the tightness to the ball joints? You may consider un-hooking the tie rod on the knuckle with the front end in the air. Then, turn the knuckle through w/your hands. It shouldn't have much if any resistance as you turn the knuckle side to side. If it binds up and is really hard to do this? You need to go to plan b and install different ball joints.
Where did you buy the ball joints and what brand where they?
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Decades of VW and VW parts restoration experience.
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ctstinnette
Samba Member
Joined: March 21, 2005
Posts: 17
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| Posted: Tue Dec 22, 2015 6:08 am Post subject: Re: Ball joints too tight |
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| wcfvw69 wrote: |
| Have you isolated the tightness to the ball joints? |
They are pretty stiff with no tie rod connected. Before I got started, I could turn a wheel sitting on my garage floor by hand with everything put together. I've not put the car back on the floor since then without the tie rods.
| wcfvw69 wrote: |
| Where did you buy the ball joints and what brand where they? |
These are from Autozone. Looking through other posts, I couldn't find a consensus of what brand to use. |
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60ragtop
Bonneville Belt Bitch
Joined: March 13, 2006
Posts: 7800
Location: Big Wonderful WYO 82401
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| Posted: Tue Dec 22, 2015 6:27 am Post subject: Re: Ball joints too tight |
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I made that mistake also by using a "German" brand  and it was undriveable. I tried lots of remedies to loosen up them up without any luck. I ended up using TRW brand,what a difference in the feel. Time consuming lesson to learn.
_________________
Rick
Certified Mechanic by the State of Michigan in 1977
ASA certified in 1987
Certified Hunter Wheel Alignment Master Technician 1986
| tasb wrote: |
I've restored a large number too, but I don't toot my horn quite as loud.
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| sb001 wrote: |
maybe he just snapped cause his car sucked  |
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wcfvw69
Samba Purist
Joined: June 10, 2004
Posts: 13389
Location: Arizona
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| Posted: Tue Dec 22, 2015 7:05 am Post subject: Re: Ball joints too tight |
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| ctstinnette wrote: |
| wcfvw69 wrote: |
| Have you isolated the tightness to the ball joints? |
They are pretty stiff with no tie rod connected. Before I got started, I could turn a wheel sitting on my garage floor by hand with everything put together. I've not put the car back on the floor since then without the tie rods.
| wcfvw69 wrote: |
| Where did you buy the ball joints and what brand where they? |
These are from Autozone. Looking through other posts, I couldn't find a consensus of what brand to use. |
Sadly, the only cure is to remove these ball joints and take them back to Autozone for a refund. They need to be held accountable for selling these lousy, Chinese parts. I'm not sure what brand bug ball joints are acceptable these days. The poster above says TRW are acceptable.
You may post a question in the late model bug forum asking what are known good ball joints w/out binding. You could also call Cip-1 and ask them what bug ball joints they recommend that are not having binding issues. When I bought my Bay window bus ball joints, I called Cip-1. The salesman was honest and said they'd had some complaint with binding from their "German" brand ball joints. After lots of research, I bought Nakata's and have been happy with them.
When I last installed bug ball joints (I don't remember the brand), before I pressed them in, I put the nut on the stud of the ball joint and turned the stud w/my wrench to get a "feel" for how tight they were. They were all smooth and not much effort was needed to spin the stud in the ball joint. I also mic'd the area of the ball joint to be pressed in compared to what I pulled out.
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Contact me at [email protected]
Follow me on instagram @sparxwerksllc
Decades of VW and VW parts restoration experience.
The Samba member since 2004.
**Now rebuilding throttle bodies for VW's and Porsche's**
**Restored German Bosch distributors for sale or I can restore yours**
**Restored German Pierburg fuel pumps for sale or I can restore yours**
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ghia4mea
Samba Member
Joined: July 23, 2007
Posts: 478
Location: Largo Florida
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| Posted: Fri Dec 25, 2015 12:00 pm Post subject: Re: Ball joints too tight |
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Sadly I had the exact problem. I gave them over a year to loosen up but they never did. When the car was on jack stands there was no way to turn the wheels by gripping the tires. It was terrible.
My friend drilled and tapped the ball joints and installed zerk fittings which allowed grease to be injected. Once greased they were smooth as silk and everything was back to normal.
I have no idea what my friend did to drill and tap them, but I do know he is an old time very patient mechanic. He is a treasure. |
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nextgen
Samba Member
Joined: August 19, 2004
Posts: 6029
Location: CONGERS, N.Y.
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| Posted: Wed Dec 30, 2015 2:53 pm Post subject: Re: Ball joints too tight |
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Talk about a dummy, I used dropped front spindles and was told to go for the special ball joints for lowered cars-- first of all if you use lowered spindles you do not have to change anything like the shocks or ball joints.
Well it was tight then one day I hit a pot hole and it got hard to turn. One of the lower ball joints had a piece of the crown break off. I bought a rebuilt arm with the ball joint installed, Simple replacement. The car was drive able so no big deal. But no high speed driving
NOT from China Car is away for the winter, will fix it next spring
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runamoc
Samba Member
Joined: June 19, 2006
Posts: 5601
Location: 37.5N 77.1W
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| Posted: Sat Jan 02, 2016 9:41 am Post subject: Re: Ball joints too tight |
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Not implying anything..but..ball joints that aren't lined up with the 'notches' are hard to turn.  |
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60ragtop
Bonneville Belt Bitch
Joined: March 13, 2006
Posts: 7800
Location: Big Wonderful WYO 82401
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| Posted: Sat Jan 02, 2016 11:55 am Post subject: Re: Ball joints too tight |
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lining up the notches has nothing to do with poor fitting ball joints
The notches are for the proper arc movement going thru the suspension travel.
_________________
Rick
Certified Mechanic by the State of Michigan in 1977
ASA certified in 1987
Certified Hunter Wheel Alignment Master Technician 1986
| tasb wrote: |
I've restored a large number too, but I don't toot my horn quite as loud.
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| sb001 wrote: |
| maybe he just snapped cause his car sucked |
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runamoc
Samba Member
Joined: June 19, 2006
Posts: 5601
Location: 37.5N 77.1W
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| Posted: Sat Jan 02, 2016 3:54 pm Post subject: Re: Ball joints too tight |
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| Quote: |
| lining up the notches has nothing to do with poor fitting ball joints Wink |
I re-read the OP and I didn't see anything about poor fitting ball joints Only that they mentioned the car had a tight steering problem and suspected the ball joints because they had been recently replaced. I 'acquired' a ACVW that had the ball joints installed in such a way the 'notches' didn't line up. It was hard to turn the steering. Jacked-up, with the suspension all the way down, it was really hard to turn the steering wheel. So yes, that could be something to check because I have experienced such a symptom in the past and that was the problem. Here, I have some pix of the PO 'craftsmanship'. 
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CruisinMark
Samba Member
Joined: July 09, 2006
Posts: 56
Location: Nanaimo, BC, Canada
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| Posted: Fri May 27, 2016 11:17 am Post subject: Re: Ball joints too tight |
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I have had similar problems with my '71 Ghia and the Meyle balljoints that I installed. I thought that they may have freed themselves up, but after three years I have finally had enough and am going to replace them because they are spoiling the enjoyment of my Ghia.
I have the following choices:
Euromax (Inexpensive)
Bilstein / Febi (Inexpensive)
OCap (Inexpensive)
Dansk (Inexpensive)
Belkarnly (Not cheap)
TRW (Highest price)
Although I have a "toy" budget and would prefer to keep the price sensible, I understand that quality normally comes at a price and as a general rule you get what you pay for. Does anyone have any experience with the above brands, good or bad please?
Thank you! |
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60ragtop
Bonneville Belt Bitch
Joined: March 13, 2006
Posts: 7800
Location: Big Wonderful WYO 82401
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| Posted: Fri May 27, 2016 5:52 pm Post subject: Re: Ball joints too tight |
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I used TRW after my mistake with buying MEYLE brand.
money well spent if you want them right.
_________________
Rick
Certified Mechanic by the State of Michigan in 1977
ASA certified in 1987
Certified Hunter Wheel Alignment Master Technician 1986
| tasb wrote: |
I've restored a large number too, but I don't toot my horn quite as loud.
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| sb001 wrote: |
| maybe he just snapped cause his car sucked |
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wcfvw69
Samba Purist
Joined: June 10, 2004
Posts: 13389
Location: Arizona
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| Posted: Fri May 27, 2016 9:22 pm Post subject: Re: Ball joints too tight |
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| 60ragtop wrote: |
I used TRW after my mistake with buying MEYLE brand.
money well spent if you want them right. |
X2 on TRW.
When I did the ball joints on my bus, I called Cip-1 and asked what brand their "genuine" German made joints where. I don't recall which brand but it was a name we all recognized. He also was honest and said he's heard feedback about them being tight. He said the cheaper Euromax brand where getting good feedback though. I ended up with Nakata ball joints after doing a lot of research. They were fine.
For the amount of work it is to install the ball joints, I'd go with the best quality and brand (TRW) you can get. I'd also bench check them before installation. Basically, take them out of the box. With the nut on the ball joint stud, put a wrench on the nut and turn the stud in the ball joint. It shouldn't take too much effort to spin the stud. Some people have reported that it took a strong effort to spin the stud in the ball joint. They still went ahead and installed them and found they were too tight and caused the problems you're having.
_________________
Contact me at [email protected]
Follow me on instagram @sparxwerksllc
Decades of VW and VW parts restoration experience.
The Samba member since 2004.
**Now rebuilding throttle bodies for VW's and Porsche's**
**Restored German Bosch distributors for sale or I can restore yours**
**Restored German Pierburg fuel pumps for sale or I can restore yours**
**Restored Porsche fuel pumps or I can restore yours**
**Restored Porsche distributors or I can restore yours** |
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John Moxon
Samba Moderator
Joined: March 07, 2004
Posts: 13957
Location: Southampton U.K.
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CruisinMark
Samba Member
Joined: July 09, 2006
Posts: 56
Location: Nanaimo, BC, Canada
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| Posted: Sat May 28, 2016 8:19 am Post subject: Re: Ball joints too tight |
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Thank you for the advice. TRW it is then - I'll break out the credit card.  |
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bobnorman
Samba Newfoundlander
Joined: August 09, 2010
Posts: 1389
Location: Newfoundland
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| Posted: Sun May 29, 2016 8:04 pm Post subject: Re: Ball joints too tight |
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| wcfvw69 wrote: |
| 60ragtop wrote: |
I used TRW after my mistake with buying MEYLE brand.
money well spent if you want them right. |
X2 on TRW.
When I did the ball joints on my bus, I called Cip-1 and asked what brand their "genuine" German made joints where. I don't recall which brand but it was a name we all recognized. He also was honest and said he's heard feedback about them being tight. He said the cheaper Euromax brand where getting good feedback though... |
Yeah... Euromax. Those were the one with the lip that folded like a cheese slice when I tied to install them.
If a product has Euro in the name chances are they're trying to make you think European when in fact they are not, in this case Made in China... My experience here, just past half way down the page...
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4...p;start=20
I ended up getting the NAPA Altrom brand, made by SIDEM. Made in the EU (Belgium I believe) they're shorter than original, but seemed to go in ok and don't seem to bind... car is not on the road yet so time will tell.
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wcfvw69
Samba Purist
Joined: June 10, 2004
Posts: 13389
Location: Arizona
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| Posted: Sun May 29, 2016 8:44 pm Post subject: Re: Ball joints too tight |
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| bobnorman wrote: |
| wcfvw69 wrote: |
| 60ragtop wrote: |
I used TRW after my mistake with buying MEYLE brand.
money well spent if you want them right. |
X2 on TRW.
When I did the ball joints on my bus, I called Cip-1 and asked what brand their "genuine" German made joints where. I don't recall which brand but it was a name we all recognized. He also was honest and said he's heard feedback about them being tight. He said the cheaper Euromax brand where getting good feedback though... |
Yeah... Euromax. Those were the one with the lip that folded like a cheese slice when I tied to install them.
If a product has Euro in the name chances are they're trying to make you think European when in fact they are not, in this case Made in China... My experience here, just past half way down the page...
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4...p;start=20
I ended up getting the NAPA Altrom brand, made by SIDEM. Made in the EU (Belgium I believe) they're shorter than original, but seemed to go in ok and don't seem to bind... car is not on the road yet so time will tell. |
You have to love poorly made China products. Figures they were garbage yet the "salesmen" at CIP-1 said they were getting good feedback..
I also agree with you in that I wouldn't buy anything "Euromax" branded. That brand is at the same level as EMPI.
_________________
Contact me at [email protected]
Follow me on instagram @sparxwerksllc
Decades of VW and VW parts restoration experience.
The Samba member since 2004.
**Now rebuilding throttle bodies for VW's and Porsche's**
**Restored German Bosch distributors for sale or I can restore yours**
**Restored German Pierburg fuel pumps for sale or I can restore yours**
**Restored Porsche fuel pumps or I can restore yours**
**Restored Porsche distributors or I can restore yours** |
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J1
Samba Member
Joined: February 10, 2014
Posts: 698
Location: SoCal
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| Posted: Thu Jun 01, 2017 8:16 pm Post subject: Re: Ball joints too tight |
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| wcfvw69 wrote: |
| For the amount of work it is to install the ball joints, I'd go with the best quality and brand (TRW) you can get. I'd also bench check them before installation. Basically, take them out of the box. With the nut on the ball joint stud, put a wrench on the nut and turn the stud in the ball joint. It shouldn't take too much effort to spin the stud. Some people have reported that it took a strong effort to spin the stud in the ball joint. They still went ahead and installed them and found they were too tight and caused the problems you're having. |
My just bought new lower TRW ball joints are too tight. Won't budge unless it's in a vise and you really really crank on them. With the above bench test the stud does not spin. Based on this thread might I have some lemons? Seems like TRW is usually ok so maybe I will ask the retailer to let me look through his stock for better ones.
Uppers seem fine. Firm but movable by hand.
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Bleyseng
Samba Member
Joined: July 03, 2005
Posts: 4752
Location: Seattle
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| Posted: Thu Jun 01, 2017 8:45 pm Post subject: Re: Ball joints too tight |
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Hmmm, I installed the German brand balljoints and they are fine. They were tight for a day of driving.
I spent $1200 getting it aligned along with new rear bushings/ Torsion bar adjustment.
Drives sweet now like new.
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