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my 74 tangerine westy Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2012 Posts: 161 Location: walla walla Washington
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Posted: Wed Dec 23, 2015 1:27 pm Post subject: How to get rid of steering slop |
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okay i have seen way to many posts on steering slop so here is the best i can do...
Things to check:
1. Your drag link
2. Tie rod ends
3. Ball joints
4. Steering box
5. Tire choice
6. ALIGNMENT
7. Steering dampener
Okay first up is the drag link here is what a bad one looks like:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ti-mcINlog4
When its fixed:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q5k9ZGVsIRc
Second up, Tie rod ends. this will be almost the same as the drag link if its bad. have someone crawl in your bus and shake the steering wheel and if the tie rod ends are bad you will see them "moving" just like the drag link ends
Dreaded Ball joints. these can become loose and knochy over time there is no fun way to do these but here is a video on how to do them without any special tools:
"Basic steps:
1) Cut off the top of the joint with a cutting disk or grinder. Hammer out the stub.
2) Sawzall or hacksaw sideways through the ball joint shell in two places 1/2" apart. Cut 80% of the way through the metal. Cold chisel that piece of metal out.
3) Make one more cut opposite the now missing piece and fold the edges of the ball joint shell inwards. That only takes one or two whacks with the hammer and chisel.
I made a little video to show how it's done. It's about 6 minutes and details the complete removal of a single ball joint. I didn't even remove the rubber boot from the ball joint until I had the stub out
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t0WBIUxOARk
This is how I got the ball joints out of the trailing arms on my 1971 VW Bus. I didn't need a super press, a welder or a torch. In fact I barely scratched the paint on the arms.
Only tools needed:
4 1/2" grinder
Cutting disk or grinding disk
Hand sledge. 2-4 lbs is ideal.
Cold chisel. Don't use a screwdriver.
Sawzall or hack saw. It might take you 30 minutes each if you have to use a hacksaw.
Sorry the end stuff scrolled by too quickly, here is the text:
The top and bottom arms are reversable side-to-side. Because the new joint is a friction fit, press the new ones in from the opposite direction and use the arms on the other side. That will also even the bearing and torsion arm wear. this" Post was made by Chubber
Your steering box can be reset SEE BENTLY MANUAL. or simply send it out to be rebuilt or replace it if it has too much play.
yes your tire choice does effect your steering, do your research before you buy
I CANT STRESS THE ENOUGH, GET IT ALIGNED!
then last that i can think of your steering dampener it is a lot like a shock they go bad and start leaking this may be something you look into.
Feel free to post about stuff i should add or edit _________________ VW made cars like Walter White makes meth
1974 Westy |
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Bleyseng Samba Member
Joined: July 03, 2005 Posts: 4752 Location: Seattle
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Posted: Wed Dec 23, 2015 10:27 pm Post subject: Re: How to get rid of steering slop |
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What about the steering pin and bushing? Those are shot on every bus I have seen as no one greases a bus every 5000 miles _________________ 70 Ghia Black convert-9/69 build date-stock w/133k 1600 SP-barn find now with a rebuilt tranny and engine
77 Westy 2.0L w/Ljet, Camper Special engine-95hp and with LSD!(sold)
76 Porsche 914 2.1L L20c, 120hp Djet (sold)
87 Syncro Westy Titan Red 2.1L 2 knob 100k miles |
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AndyC13 Samba Member
Joined: December 30, 2014 Posts: 56
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Posted: Thu Dec 24, 2015 4:59 am Post subject: Re: How to get rid of steering slop |
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What about the steering coupler also? |
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mikedjames Samba Member
Joined: July 02, 2012 Posts: 2714 Location: Hamble, Hampshire, UK
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Posted: Thu Dec 24, 2015 10:20 am Post subject: Re: How to get rid of steering slop |
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As well as the above ..
Replace the oil seals in the steering box and refill with oil ..
Making sure the steering pin is under tension at rest by using pressure from a jack under the pin when you clamp the arm on the top of the pin. _________________ Ancient vehicles and vessels
1974 VW T2 : Devon Eurovette camper with 1641 DP T1 engine, Progressive carb, full flow oil cooler, EDIS crank timed ignition.
Engine 1: 40k miles (rocker shaft clip fell off), Engine 2: 30k miles (rebuild, dropped valve). Engine 3: a JK Preservation Parts "new" engine, aluminium case: 26k miles: new top end.
Gearbox rebuild 2021 by Bears.
1979 Westerly GK24 24 foot racer/cruiser yacht Forethought of Gosport.
1973 wooden Pacer sailing dinghy |
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Amskeptic Samba Member
Joined: October 18, 2002 Posts: 8568 Location: All Across The Country
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Posted: Thu Dec 24, 2015 10:33 am Post subject: Re: How to get rid of steering slop |
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my 74 tangerine westy wrote: |
A) okay i have seen way to many posts on steering slop so here is the best i can do...
B) Your steering box can be reset SEE BENTLY MANUAL. or simply send it out to be rebuilt or replace it if it has too much play.
Feel free to post about stuff i should add or edit |
a) Yes there have been "way to many" posts on steering slop, and as mentioned by Bleyseng, overlooking the center pin / bushings (!) means that more posts will be forthcoming.
b) Please, by the way, do NOT just rush your "article" or whatever with a breezy little "simply send it (steering box) out to be rebuilt". It is more complicated than that, and some of our "rebuilders" leave a lot to be desired.
The Bentley Manual has a decent adjustment procedure, yes, but it should be stressed that loose center pin bushings often cause people to inadvertently over-tighten the steering box to the detriment of this fine but dwindling German engineering.
Colin _________________ www.itinerant-air-cooled.com |
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Tcash Samba Member
Joined: July 20, 2011 Posts: 12844 Location: San Jose, California, USA
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Tom Powell Samba Member
Joined: December 01, 2005 Posts: 4855 Location: Kaneohe
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Posted: Thu Dec 24, 2015 3:19 pm Post subject: Re: How to get rid of steering slop |
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I have recently replaced my worn drag link in the hopes of reducing the steering slop. That worked a bit but not to my satisfaction. I have since replaced the OG steering with a used steering box, but still not satisfied. I sent the steering box to have it rebuilt, but got back a box that had the groove for the coupler retaining bolt 90* off from my OG. Sent the rebuilt box back for another and installed that and should be ready to drive.
However, this is what I do not understand:
It is 2 3/4 turns of the steering wheel and input shaft from stop to stop. Therefore, with the wheels straight ahead I expected the steering wheel spokes to be horizontal at 1 3/8 turns from either stop, but they are not. I know that there can be some adjustment in the drag link to level the spokes, but I don't think that would correct what might or might not be a problem.
The pitman arm and the shaft have marks on them. Those are aligned and the arm torqued down. The steering wheel spokes are level. The wheels are straight ahead. But, I know that the number of turns from center to the stops will not be equal.
The vehicle is on ramps so I can't swing them back and forth and I wonder if I will have the same turning radius on left and right turns.
My plan is to take a test drive around the block making right turns and then around the other block making left turns.
Is there something about the VW steering geometry that I'm ignorant of?
Aloha
tp |
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aeromech Samba Member
Joined: January 24, 2006 Posts: 16922 Location: San Diego, California
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Posted: Thu Dec 24, 2015 4:57 pm Post subject: Re: How to get rid of steering slop |
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I'll pile on with those other guys and stress that the center pin can be a huge cause of steering slop. I'd rather change a gearbox than rebush the center pin. Also as said, getting an early bay gearbox rebuilt isn't easy or cheap. The peg alone can cost over $100 if you can get one from Europe. _________________ Lead Mechanic: San Diego Air and Space Museum
Licensed Airframe and Powerplant Mechanic
Licensed Pilot (Single engine Land)
Boeing 727,737-200-300-400,757,767
Airbus A319,320,321
DC9/MD80
BAe146
Fokker F28/F100
VW type 1 1962,63,65,69,72
VW Type 2 1971 (3 ea.) 1978, 1969
VW Jetta
VW Passat
Capable of leaping tall buildings in a single bound |
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Tom Powell Samba Member
Joined: December 01, 2005 Posts: 4855 Location: Kaneohe
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Posted: Thu Dec 24, 2015 6:47 pm Post subject: Re: How to get rid of steering slop |
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I started out on my test drive, but didn't get out of the driveway.
1st problem:
The horn honks if I move the steering wheel off center. I figure that is a grounding problem. Possibly a short to ground somewhere down the steering tube. Possibly a short at the top. Should be easy to sort out. I have an auxiliary taco wagon air horn if I can't get the kinks out of the OG horn.
2nd problem:
I seem to have more slop in the steering than before I replaced the drag link and steering box. Don't know what the problem is, but may be the center pin needs work. I need to be under the vehicle with a helper moving the steering wheel to pinpoint the problem.
After I get the horn sorted out and recheck the coupling, pitman arm, and drag link, I'll probably limp down South and call on Gary's expertise next year.
Aloha
tp |
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skills@eurocarsplus Samba Peckerhead
Joined: January 01, 2007 Posts: 16802 Location: sticksville, ct.
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Posted: Thu Dec 24, 2015 7:05 pm Post subject: Re: How to get rid of steering slop |
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tom
the horn honking can be 2 things
steering tube not centered to the shaft...ez fix...slide the floor plate.
I hope you put the ground wire UNDER the coupler, not on top. if on top, it will flex enough to juuuussst touch the plate on turns.
center the box by finding the stiff spot in the center. then adjust accordingly.
rebuilt boxes are a sham...if they are not putting bushings in the output of the box, its a lost cause.
what I have found is 99.9999% of the time the peg is ok as long as some jackwagon hasn't adjusted the snot out of it. the famous POP POP off center is the output shaft slamming the case trying to push/pull the drag link.
I have saved several boxes by machining the case to accept a bushing and cleaning any scoring off the output shaft. _________________
gprudenciop wrote: |
my reason for switching to subaru is my german car was turning chinese so i said fuck it and went japanese....... |
Jake Raby wrote: |
Thanks for the correction. I used to be a nice guy, then I ruined it by exposing myself to the public. |
Brian wrote: |
Also the fact that people are agreeing with Skills, it's a turn of events for samba history |
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aeromech Samba Member
Joined: January 24, 2006 Posts: 16922 Location: San Diego, California
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Posted: Thu Dec 24, 2015 7:25 pm Post subject: Re: How to get rid of steering slop |
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Come on down when you're back this way. I'll call in my team of crack mechanics/electricians and you'll never know what hit you. It will be like a NASCAR pit stop with everyone asses and elbows. _________________ Lead Mechanic: San Diego Air and Space Museum
Licensed Airframe and Powerplant Mechanic
Licensed Pilot (Single engine Land)
Boeing 727,737-200-300-400,757,767
Airbus A319,320,321
DC9/MD80
BAe146
Fokker F28/F100
VW type 1 1962,63,65,69,72
VW Type 2 1971 (3 ea.) 1978, 1969
VW Jetta
VW Passat
Capable of leaping tall buildings in a single bound |
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Wildthings Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005 Posts: 50255
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Posted: Thu Dec 24, 2015 7:42 pm Post subject: Re: How to get rid of steering slop |
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There is a thread somewhere that tells about using a Splitty center link kit on a Bay. This will allow for a tighter fit between the shaft and the bushing and thus less slop in the link. |
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skills@eurocarsplus Samba Peckerhead
Joined: January 01, 2007 Posts: 16802 Location: sticksville, ct.
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Posted: Thu Dec 24, 2015 7:45 pm Post subject: Re: How to get rid of steering slop |
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aeromech wrote: |
Come on down when you're back this way. I'll call in my team of crack mechanics/electricians and you'll never know what hit you. It will be like a NASCAR pit stop with everyone asses and elbows. |
I like crack. and asses. _________________
gprudenciop wrote: |
my reason for switching to subaru is my german car was turning chinese so i said fuck it and went japanese....... |
Jake Raby wrote: |
Thanks for the correction. I used to be a nice guy, then I ruined it by exposing myself to the public. |
Brian wrote: |
Also the fact that people are agreeing with Skills, it's a turn of events for samba history |
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Tcash Samba Member
Joined: July 20, 2011 Posts: 12844 Location: San Jose, California, USA
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Wildthings Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005 Posts: 50255
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Posted: Thu Dec 24, 2015 11:04 pm Post subject: Re: How to get rid of steering slop |
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Thanks for the link. Interesting the the '79 buses used Teflon bushings, didn't know that. Would be interesting to know how they held up in comparison to the brass ones. It would be pretty simple matter for someone to have a dozen or so tight fitting Telfon or other plastic bushing made up and distribute them out to volunteers to see how they worked. One could design them to have a light interference fit so that there would be no slop in the center link at all. |
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aeromech Samba Member
Joined: January 24, 2006 Posts: 16922 Location: San Diego, California
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Posted: Thu Dec 24, 2015 11:35 pm Post subject: Re: How to get rid of steering slop |
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I've actually got a 1979 bus at the house right now.
_________________ Lead Mechanic: San Diego Air and Space Museum
Licensed Airframe and Powerplant Mechanic
Licensed Pilot (Single engine Land)
Boeing 727,737-200-300-400,757,767
Airbus A319,320,321
DC9/MD80
BAe146
Fokker F28/F100
VW type 1 1962,63,65,69,72
VW Type 2 1971 (3 ea.) 1978, 1969
VW Jetta
VW Passat
Capable of leaping tall buildings in a single bound |
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aeromech Samba Member
Joined: January 24, 2006 Posts: 16922 Location: San Diego, California
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Posted: Fri Dec 25, 2015 9:53 am Post subject: Re: How to get rid of steering slop |
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skills@eurocarsplus wrote: |
aeromech wrote: |
Come on down when you're back this way. I'll call in my team of crack mechanics/electricians and you'll never know what hit you. It will be like a NASCAR pit stop with everyone asses and elbows. |
I like crack. and asses. |
I don't see the attraction myself Don. To each his own I guess.
_________________ Lead Mechanic: San Diego Air and Space Museum
Licensed Airframe and Powerplant Mechanic
Licensed Pilot (Single engine Land)
Boeing 727,737-200-300-400,757,767
Airbus A319,320,321
DC9/MD80
BAe146
Fokker F28/F100
VW type 1 1962,63,65,69,72
VW Type 2 1971 (3 ea.) 1978, 1969
VW Jetta
VW Passat
Capable of leaping tall buildings in a single bound |
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skills@eurocarsplus Samba Peckerhead
Joined: January 01, 2007 Posts: 16802 Location: sticksville, ct.
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Posted: Fri Dec 25, 2015 10:19 am Post subject: Re: How to get rid of steering slop |
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a good vertical smile helps lighten the mood, as your photo depicts.
he is in prime "slot machine" stance now.
for those who don't know, it's when you drop some coin in the slot and pump the arm of said slot offender. the dance done to shake the coin out the pant leg is amusing to say the least.
you definitely do not want to pocket the "winnings"
I have worked in a shop for far, far too long.... _________________
gprudenciop wrote: |
my reason for switching to subaru is my german car was turning chinese so i said fuck it and went japanese....... |
Jake Raby wrote: |
Thanks for the correction. I used to be a nice guy, then I ruined it by exposing myself to the public. |
Brian wrote: |
Also the fact that people are agreeing with Skills, it's a turn of events for samba history |
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Tcash Samba Member
Joined: July 20, 2011 Posts: 12844 Location: San Jose, California, USA
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Posted: Fri Dec 25, 2015 11:18 am Post subject: Re: How to get rid of steering slop |
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For when you are bent over that engine bay.
Link
Happy Holidays
Tcash |
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skills@eurocarsplus Samba Peckerhead
Joined: January 01, 2007 Posts: 16802 Location: sticksville, ct.
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Posted: Fri Dec 25, 2015 11:30 am Post subject: Re: How to get rid of steering slop |
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couple that with this
Link
and you're golden _________________
gprudenciop wrote: |
my reason for switching to subaru is my german car was turning chinese so i said fuck it and went japanese....... |
Jake Raby wrote: |
Thanks for the correction. I used to be a nice guy, then I ruined it by exposing myself to the public. |
Brian wrote: |
Also the fact that people are agreeing with Skills, it's a turn of events for samba history |
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