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Westy1999
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Joined: June 29, 2015
Posts: 159
Location: U.S.
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 Posted: Wed Dec 23, 2015 5:21 pm Post subject: Can you fill a propane tank w/ a propane tank? |
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Is there any way to fill up a Westfalia propane tank with a larger 20lb or so propane tank? You'd think there would be some kind of hardware.
The reason I ask is that I use a Propex heater and it goes through the Westy tank pretty fast. I have a hard time finding gas stations that will fill it. I see plenty of stations that will fill up the 20lb size, however. |
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Farf
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Joined: July 12, 2009
Posts: 463
Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Wed Dec 23, 2015 5:25 pm Post subject: Re: Can you fill a propane tank w/ a propane tank? |
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| I suppose there is a way to do it. But it might be easier and safer to install a fitting/valve on the existing system that would allow you to use the 20# tank directly. |
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djkeev
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Joined: September 30, 2007
Posts: 32632
Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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Sodo
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Joined: July 06, 2007
Posts: 9618
Location: Western WA
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| Posted: Wed Dec 23, 2015 5:30 pm Post subject: Re: Can you fill a propane tank w/ a propane tank? |
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Yes you can do it, sort of. YOU would haave to work out the connection between the two tanks, and then invert the 20-lb, so it pushes out the liquid.
I've been refilling the little 1 lb disposable cylinders from a 20-lb tank. It's not just "simple". First of all there are safety considerations. If you get liquid propane on your skin it ill freeze your skin. This can be bad. If it lights on fire the freezing problem goes away but not a good solution.
There are temperature considerations, where if the westy tank is too warm, it won't accept any from the 20lb tank. So you have to bleed off some gas, which makes space in the westy tank, and cools it too. Then it can take more liquid. Thats why the station has a pump. You can't really get into pumping propane.
I would say that you probably would not enjoy refilling your Westy tank on your own. Refilling means dealing with liquid propane. Better is to simply plumb in a 20 lb tank on the gas side, in addition to the ~12? lb westy tank.
_________________
'90 Westy EJ25, 2Peloquins, 3knobs, pressure-oiled GT mainshaft, filtered, cooled gearbox
'87 Tintop w 47k 53k, '12 SmallCar EJ25, cooled filtered gearbox
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MsTaboo
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Joined: June 02, 2006
Posts: 4098
Location: East Kootenay, British Columbia
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| Posted: Wed Dec 23, 2015 5:32 pm Post subject: Re: Can you fill a propane tank w/ a propane tank? |
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| Westy1999 wrote: |
Is there any way to fill up a Westfalia propane tank with a larger 20lb or so propane tank? You'd think there would be some kind of hardware.
The reason I ask is that I use a Propex heater and it goes through the Westy tank pretty fast. I have a hard time finding gas stations that will fill it. I see plenty of stations that will fill up the 20lb size, however. |
Has been done,
However, it will only fill propane into the onboard tank until both tanks are at the same pressure. You can run the propane goodies from the outboard tank until both are empty.
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Currently:
'90 Syncro Westy 3 knob w/Zetec
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Sodo
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2007
Posts: 9618
Location: Western WA
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| Posted: Wed Dec 23, 2015 5:38 pm Post subject: Re: Can you fill a propane tank w/ a propane tank? |
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This won't really "fill" the westy tank. If the westy tank was as cold as possible, (first) and the external tank "warm as possible, you can hook them together, invert the donor tank and then open the valve. Some liquid will flow into the Westy tank, until the pressure equalizes. If you get liquid into the Westy tank, you have propane, and can disconnect the donor tank.
Attaching like the pic will extend usage though, as long as you don't drive away.
_________________
'90 Westy EJ25, 2Peloquins, 3knobs, pressure-oiled GT mainshaft, filtered, cooled gearbox
'87 Tintop w 47k 53k, '12 SmallCar EJ25, cooled filtered gearbox
....KTMs, GasGas, SPOT mtb |
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Westy1999
Samba Member
Joined: June 29, 2015
Posts: 159
Location: U.S.
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| Posted: Wed Dec 23, 2015 5:39 pm Post subject: Re: Can you fill a propane tank w/ a propane tank? |
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Okay, so no easy solution. I need to sit down and figure this one out. I would wonder why even have the small propane tank on the westy. Why not remove it and carry a 20lb tank inside and then when you're ready to use propane, connect the 20lb tank from the outside.
Is this a decent solution?
I just got my westy and I'm told that you can't drive with the propane tank on so what's the point of having the small propane westy tank bolted to the undercarriage? Since you need to go outside to turn it on, why not just go outside with a 20lb tank, connect it and use propane? Am I missing somethign? Probably.
ALSO...why is it so hard to find gas stations to fill up the westy tank? Is there a station that is usually a good bet? Mostly they look at me like I'm crazy when I point to my camper. I've been turned down 2x in 6 days. |
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Sodo
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Joined: July 06, 2007
Posts: 9618
Location: Western WA
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| Posted: Wed Dec 23, 2015 5:44 pm Post subject: Re: Can you fill a propane tank w/ a propane tank? |
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Why not turn it off while you drive? I think MsTaboos setup is perfect. You don't HAVE to transfer liquid propane to the Westy tank, but you could transfer some.
If,,,,, you hook up the two tanks like that, will it draw off both tanks? If so, the westy tank won't empty so soon.
I haven't had any trouble filling my Westy tank anywhere in the west. They are usually disappointed that it's only a 3 gallon sale.
I rarely turn off my propane. Sometimes when I get on the ferry they require it turned off an tagged. It's probably on right now.
_________________
'90 Westy EJ25, 2Peloquins, 3knobs, pressure-oiled GT mainshaft, filtered, cooled gearbox
'87 Tintop w 47k 53k, '12 SmallCar EJ25, cooled filtered gearbox
....KTMs, GasGas, SPOT mtb
Last edited by Sodo on Wed Dec 23, 2015 5:52 pm; edited 5 times in total |
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djkeev
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Joined: September 30, 2007
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Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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Synthead
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Joined: November 04, 2015
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| Posted: Wed Dec 23, 2015 6:11 pm Post subject: Re: Can you fill a propane tank w/ a propane tank? |
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| Westy1999 wrote: |
| The reason I ask is that I use a Propex heater and it goes through the Westy tank pretty fast. |
How fast is fast? I just installed a Propex on my Westy and I'm going to be taking it out in the cold for the first time tomorrow  |
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Ahwahnee
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Joined: June 05, 2010
Posts: 9810
Location: Mt Lemmon, AZ
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| Posted: Wed Dec 23, 2015 6:14 pm Post subject: Re: Can you fill a propane tank w/ a propane tank? |
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| Westy1999 wrote: |
| ...I have a hard time finding gas stations that will fill it... |
In 25+ years I have never had a fill station decline to fill the tank. Not sure why they would as no adaptor is needed.
I always provide something for them to lie on if the ground is messy, wet or snowy. I point out the location of the bleed screw for them. I tell them something like 'it takes less than 3 gallons when empty and it is not empty'.
I also mention that the inlet points slightly downward if they have trouble getting the hose connected.
I watch the gauge (usually hard for them to see if it is taking on fuel when they are down on the ground) and say something if the bleeder needs to open more to get the flow going.
I have never asked for a fill in the pouring rain or in the dark -- that might be a problem. |
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Howesight
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Joined: July 02, 2008
Posts: 3274
Location: Vancouver, B.C.
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| Posted: Wed Dec 23, 2015 6:15 pm Post subject: Re: Can you fill a propane tank w/ a propane tank? |
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It's not easy to find a propane seller willing to fill the Westy tanks. They are a pain in the ass and the "spit valve" is ancient and rather unsafe technology as the sole means of determining when the tank is full. Keep looking for a Westy-friendly propane seller.
The problem with the 20 pound tanks is that they are not rugged for exposure to the elements the way the Westy tank is.
There is nothing at all wrong, on a stock Westy, with leaving the factory propane tank valve open. (The factory Dometic Fridge will run quite nicely).
People get mixed up on this because there are some circumstances where you will be asked, or be required by law, to shut off your propane tank at the shut-off valve. Propane is heavier than air, so if you are driving onto a ferry boat, for example, or a tunnel, you will be required to shut off the tank to ensure that leakage does not fill the bilge or hold of the boat or the lowest part of a tunnel, with explosive gas.
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outcaststudios
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Joined: February 09, 2015
Posts: 1732
Location: Maine
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| Posted: Wed Dec 23, 2015 6:25 pm Post subject: Re: Can you fill a propane tank w/ a propane tank? |
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resident propane enthusiast here.
1) no one in p.a. will fill your tank on a 'car' at a gas station, you might have better luck at the local propane yard for them to fill it. but im sure even they will tell you that you need a hazmat license to carry it.
2) learn how to fill your own tanks properly and safely from a 100 lb. tank you keep at home. this way the guy in the truck shows up to replace your tank at home you dont have to go through the trouble of hauling it back and forth. costs like six bux a month to rent a tank. im sure if you tell the guys at the yard what youre trying to do they can tell you the "legal" way to do it.
3)it is illegal to transport more than a total of 600 lbs of liquid gas in pa without a license. in a car or truck. if you do carry a tank it needs to be strapped to an upright and its safety cap in place over its valve stem. ive heard that technically if youre in a car transporting,you need to leave the trunk ajar, but im not sure of that is really on the books or not.
4) filling can be done as stated above by inverting and filling th eliquid.
if youre trying to get more life out of a tank it helps to keep several little bottles chained together with what are called 'pigtails' ask the guys at the yard about these too. you may be able to by pass the 20lb tank idea, and have a few smaller bottles tied together this way you dont need a 20lb. tank, but rather five little one pounders etc. be warm!
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Ahwahnee
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Joined: June 05, 2010
Posts: 9810
Location: Mt Lemmon, AZ
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| Posted: Wed Dec 23, 2015 6:26 pm Post subject: Re: Can you fill a propane tank w/ a propane tank? |
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Oh, another tip. I do not go inside and tell them my tiny tank needs a few gallons. I just park at the fill set-up and go in and tell them I need propane.
By the time the guy works out what I have he is already there ready to do the deed.
I always drive with the fridge on gas. Once ran it 24/7 for a year (only off for gas fill-ups). Eastern tunnels (e.g. under rivers) want it off because there is a low spot where leaking gas could collect. Western tunnels (through mountains) are sloped to one or both ends and generally have no restrictions. |
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outcaststudios
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Joined: February 09, 2015
Posts: 1732
Location: Maine
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| Posted: Wed Dec 23, 2015 6:27 pm Post subject: Re: Can you fill a propane tank w/ a propane tank? |
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you crazy southerners and your lax petrochemical statutes... 
_________________
'88Doka JX td
'69 westy
(rip)couple bugs
(rip)three type III"s
(rip) '81 vanagon
a bunch of french stuff,and 9 motorcycles.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=2573791 |
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dobryan
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Location: Brookeville, MD
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Farf
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Joined: July 12, 2009
Posts: 463
Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Wed Dec 23, 2015 6:37 pm Post subject: Re: Can you fill a propane tank w/ a propane tank? |
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| Westy1999 wrote: |
I would wonder why even have the small propane tank on the westy. Why not remove it and carry a 20lb tank inside and then when you're ready to use propane, connect the 20lb tank from the outside.........
Since you need to go outside to turn it on, why not just go outside with a 20lb tank, connect it and use propane? Am I missing somethign? Probably. |
I think most of us camp when its warmer outside, by eliminating the stock tank you have to deal with the 20# tank when one full westy tank would probably serve your needs for the summer/fall season. I'd go with MsTaboo's suggestion. No modifications needed and less clutter half the year. |
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DLJ
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Posts: 555
Location: North California
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| Posted: Wed Dec 23, 2015 6:38 pm Post subject: Re: Can you fill a propane tank w/ a propane tank? |
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Read back a little at MsTaboo's suggestion, perfect. Its what I've b den doing for several years, no problem!
you can use a smaller than a 20 gal. tank, up to you. |
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davevickery
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Joined: July 16, 2005
Posts: 2887
Location: Fort Collins, CO
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| Posted: Wed Dec 23, 2015 7:48 pm Post subject: Re: Can you fill a propane tank w/ a propane tank? |
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If you have a propane heater, you need some sort of back up fuel supply or you will make yourself crazy.
I added a tee inside the cabinet with a hose that I could connect to a portable barbq tank outside. I normally only brought along a one gallon tank but it was enough to make sure I never ran out.
I had my hose route up to the city water port, which I didn't use, and put a quick connect fitting there. I could run everything off either tank. It was great.
You can also buy an external fitting that goes right on the regulator but I liked having a connection away from all the crap that collects around the tank in the winter. The "extend a stay" fitting is one of those types, but some people have done better with just an adapter screwed into an extra port on the regulator.
Another good option is to put a second stock propane tank on the other side of the van and connect them together with an automatic change over regulator. When the first tank empties, the regulator automatically switches to the other tank and you can look at it and see if it flipped, so you know it's time to refill. If you have a spare used tank, that isn't that expensive an option. |
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Westy1999
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Joined: June 29, 2015
Posts: 159
Location: U.S.
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| Posted: Wed Dec 23, 2015 8:14 pm Post subject: Re: Can you fill a propane tank w/ a propane tank? |
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[quote="MsTaboo"]
| Westy1999 wrote: |
However, it will only fill propane into the onboard tank until both tanks are at the same pressure. You can run the propane goodies from the outboard tank until both are empty. |
Hi, can you explain that a bit more regarding the tanks being at the same pressure? Also, what kind of attachment do you have going into the westy tank?
Thanks, looks like a good option. |
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