cold starting issue

[Merian]

repl. or bridge around it - but... your title says cold start, what about when hot?

did you repl. the T2 sensor?

[chachi]

yep, like i said, it seems to start fine when it's been running. hasn't been hot out and, since it's 9ft tall it doesn't go in standard garages (not that i have one anyway). have not replaced the T2 sensor, missed that suggestion in this thread. have the switch (german) on order, i'll check into the sensor.
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'74 transporter panel
'91 vanagon carat NAHT

[chachi]

update on a couple things.

first, young's old volk's home in bend. jerry was the guy who worked on our car. day before christmas eve, was cranking but not starting. towed in the night before, they said it started up first time but they brought it into the shop where they changed the oil, which he thought was making it start sluggish and coolant which he said, at the time, was improperly rated. i had just flushed and filled it with pentafrost blue premix two days before the trip, they used napa yellow. charged us $233.60. car wouldn't start morning after work was completed. when i called him later to find out what coolant he had used, he said he had formerly used pentafrost blue but upon the advice of another shop he had switched to the napa because the PF was clogging radiators. i said, you were using the PF blue even though you told me mine wasn't properly rated for bend and area weather? he said, oh well you had too much water in your coolant, s'why we changed it. later, when buying napa coolant i noted both napa and pentafrost blue both rated to -35*. i said, well, the car wouldn't start the next day, your repair was worthless. no offer of recompense, no apologies, no admission of any guilt. laundry list of other possibles. no mention of massive head gasket coolant leaks that had evidenced themselves in the cold weather. i'll let the reader be the judge on whether this is a reputable shop.

ignition switch arrived from bus depot. this is their $15 "OEM german" switch. switch looks ok quality-wise and is in sealed box from german reseller, but has no indication on the part of origin. does have spot where it looks like someone took a dremel tool and buzzed off something, maybe origin information.

but no matter, van gets limped to walla walla monday to get an RJE 2.3 and GTA turbo auto.
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'74 transporter panel
'91 vanagon carat NAHT

[Wildthings]

All ethylene glycol coolants are rated the same temperature wise TTBOMK. Only that additive packages are different.

[chachi]

i'll remember that next time.
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'74 transporter panel
'91 vanagon carat NAHT

[Merian]

Chachi, check your pm's

[Howesight]

I have no affiliation with the Old Volks Home, but I would like to comment. Reputations are made over years and ruined in days, sometimes minutes with the speed of internet communication.

The many and varied running problems that we Vanagon owners suffer are not easy to diagnose. Modern vehicles have OBD1 and OBD2 diagnostic systems that allow a high degree of useful diagnostic information. Vanagons do not have this useful feature unless the engine has been converted to a later engine with this system. As a result of the lack of OBD, owners of Vanagons need to work very hard to describe to their technician in as much detail as possible and in the clearest language possible, the symptoms that will provide clues.

In my household, I am the technician for all our vehicles. When my wife describes symptoms to me, I often find her descriptions and comments alarmingly off-base.

Once, she told me that her Audi S6 "sounds like it's going to explode". I rode with her to listen for the impending conflagration. As it turned out, a heat shield was loose and rattled at a resonant rpm. No explosion, as you can surmise, before or after I tightened the offending screw.

Another time, I rode with her and heard a whining on start-up that was clearly the power steering pump cavitating. I asked her if she heard anything that sounded different. "Nope". The pressure line had developed a slow leak, and the hydraulic reservoir was very low.

Another time, she called me in a panic saying her car "Won't turn over." I said that that was a design feature that allowed the tires to stay on the ground instead of in the air. That did not make her laugh.

I probed further. After talking past each other for a while she and I eventually got to the point where I learnt:
1. When she turned the key to the "start" position, the starter would, in fact engage;
2. Despite this, while cranking, the engine would not start; and
3. The battery was almost drained because of the repeated attempts to start the car.

It later turned out that the fuel pressure regulator had partially failed, leaking internally and allowing residual fuel pressure to drop and allow vapour lock. Simply getting a battery boost allowed her to start the car. What she did not tell me was that she only ran the starter for what turned out to be one or two seconds at a time. Apparently, someone else told her you can ruin starters by running them too long. She would "let the starter cool a while" after each attempt. Another myth-derived concept. With vapour lock, you need to crank a long time to clear the vapour bubble.

The point is, with someone less patient, the real symptoms would not likely have been learnt. So, for a better repair shop experience, it is vital for those of us who love these relics to accurately and carefully describe all the symptoms, even those that may seem, at first blush, to be unrelated.

For what it is worth, I think the comment from one poster above about water in the gasoline from failed expansion tank seals is an excellent observation. At this time of year, even if your gas station pumps 100% water-free gasoline (not a hope in hell of that, by the way), your existing tank and condensation can quickly create a water problem. The standard solution for small amounts of water in gasoline is to use methyl hydrate in the gas tank which allows water and gasoline to mix thus stop the separation that can cause the fuel system to suck a slug of pure water. For large amounts of water, draining the tank is called for.
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'86 Syncro Westy SVX

[chachi]

good points definitely. the information i gave the individual in question was that i had fuel at the bleeder screw on the rail and spark at the cap and that no amount of cranking (i let it go on cranking for quite awhile until you could smell the flooding, with and without a running car battery jumper cabled to it) would get it to finally catch.

look at it from his perspective: you run a garage and someone calls you frantically two nights before you're supposed to leave town for christmas. it's snowing like crazy, you know you can't get decent parts and you have one day to get this guy on his way. do you even take the vehicle? this guy did. at the time, i was mighty happy he did.

the shop rate is clearly posted on the wall as $90 an hour. i could see a scenario where he spends two hours and the coolant, filter and oil get you up to $233.60. the part that i question was the reasons for the work moving around. first it was the rating, THEN it was the water when i questioned his rationale about the rating. i was clearly low on coolant, that part i don't question. the van is still losing a massive amount of coolant just sitting; i can watch it seep out the gaskets until it forms a lake on the block. surely he must have seen this...? but do you, as a mechanic, bring that up to someone in a tough spot, eagerly hoping to get their van back?

i blame myself. the van was not ready for the trip and i made the call to go ahead anyway, i paid the stupid tax, and all things considered, it was a pretty cheap tax. but it brings up the larger point about how hard it is to find a good mechanic, no matter what vehicles they ply their trade on. this is why i got into volkswagens, because you can work on them yourself. mechanics who think outside the box, who look at the larger picture and address the global problems, no matter how difficult they are to hear or solve, are as rare as PEOPLE who think outside the box. and if you're going to complain about someone else working on your car, there's only one person who can change the situation. but i was asked in this thread or another for feedback on this shop so here it is. i was also asked why i hadn't followed up on another problem i'd had this summer that i had no idea people even really paid attention to let alone remembered so i feel like this is my due dilligence.

merian, got your pm, big thanks for your support with this. sometimes in these situations, someone taking the time to post, to show that someone is listening, is the best thing you can get.
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'74 transporter panel
'91 vanagon carat NAHT