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AZ Landshaper Samba Member
Joined: February 08, 2009 Posts: 1698 Location: The Old Pueblo
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Posted: Fri Jul 21, 2017 3:25 pm Post subject: Shift linkage or transaxle and how does this get resolved. |
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My shifter looses access to reverse and then 1st and 2nd become lost behind the lockout stop plate. So then I climb my ass under the van and put a thumb on the hockey stick. Something pops and we are all back in line and moving forward or backward as usual.
I'm thinking the spring/ rod inside the trans is catching on something and not allowing the spring fully return my rod to the appropriate location. This is new and annoying as we all know.
What do u think about my hypothesis? I'm eager as hell to get this resolved before my cruise control kit shows up and I'm looking to hit the highway westy.
I don't see a great diagram in Bentley for this predicament. Can I remove the rod and spring w/o removing major motor/ trans parts? Seems I might need some seals too. Sludge appears to be caked around the trans. Lovely!
f _________________ Support Small Business.
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85 Weekender w/ EJ22
Previously
64, 71, 72, 73, 76, 81, 84, 85 & 87 Campmobiles and Westfalias
and a 67 bug. |
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Gizmoman Samba Member
Joined: September 10, 2011 Posts: 1554 Location: Nevada
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Posted: Fri Jul 21, 2017 4:16 pm Post subject: Re: Shift linkage or transaxle and how does this get resolved. |
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Hard to tell by your description exactly, but it reads like your issues are in the box under the front floor typically covered by the clamshell/spare. Remove the box and have a look see.
The whole linkage may need to have the parts inspected or replaced starting at the end of the lever and going all the way back to the trans. There are plenty of topics on linkage in here. One thing for sure, if it was fine and it happened suddenly, mark everything before you take it loose. _________________ 82 Vanagon Westy - AAZ 1.9 TD, HE200 Holset, WAIC, 27.75 dia tires, Electric power steering, 5-speed AAP w/.078 5th
Oversize spare carrier - stock location (no longer for sale). |
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levi Samba Member
Joined: February 11, 2005 Posts: 5522 Location: Las Vegas
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Posted: Fri Jul 21, 2017 4:48 pm Post subject: Re: Shift linkage or transaxle and how does this get resolved. |
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Yeah thats where I would look before digging into the trans.
The plastic parts at the base of the shifter would be my focus. _________________ One of these days I'm gonna settle down,
but till I do I won't be hangin round.
Going down that long lonesome highway,
gonna see life my way
https://youtu.be/cSrL0BXsO40 |
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VWinVT Samba Member
Joined: April 21, 2013 Posts: 1541 Location: North East Kingdom
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Posted: Fri Jul 21, 2017 4:58 pm Post subject: Re: Shift linkage or transaxle and how does this get resolved. |
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I bet the little plastic "ears" on the base of the shifter in the box under the floor are worn away. Their job is to keep,the shifter between the tab and the side wall of the "box". If the ears are worn, your shifter will,slip under the tab in the box and cause problems. That's my guess. _________________ 1981 Westfalia with a 2001 Cabrio ABA
Small wheel turns by the firing rod,
Big wheel turns by the grace of God.
Every time that wheel turns 'round,
You're bound to cover just a little more ground. |
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Ahwahnee Samba Member
Joined: June 05, 2010 Posts: 9810 Location: Mt Lemmon, AZ
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Posted: Fri Jul 21, 2017 4:59 pm Post subject: Re: Shift linkage or transaxle and how does this get resolved. |
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AZ Landshaper wrote: |
...I'm thinking the spring/ rod inside the trans is catching on something and not allowing the spring fully return my rod to the appropriate location... |
If that is what you suspect - what happens when you push the rod into the transaxle to the 1-2 or reverse position? Can you get it to hang up or does it always pop back? |
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AZ Landshaper Samba Member
Joined: February 08, 2009 Posts: 1698 Location: The Old Pueblo
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Posted: Fri Jul 21, 2017 5:19 pm Post subject: Re: Shift linkage or transaxle and how does this get resolved. |
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No issues above clam shell. Have the plastic spacer on drivers side and the ear on opposite side. All intact and new. There's no real play in center bushing and I recently replaced the guide pin ring. I have had no luck in making the piece stick while below. I removed the hockey stick and played with the selector rod and was amazed at how smooth it is moving about. I originally thought the center bush or the linkage in the box were issues but after repairing/ replacing those parts I don't think there's any prob there. I'll post a video. _________________ Support Small Business.
-------------------------------------------------------
85 Weekender w/ EJ22
Previously
64, 71, 72, 73, 76, 81, 84, 85 & 87 Campmobiles and Westfalias
and a 67 bug. |
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atomatom Samba Member
Joined: May 15, 2012 Posts: 1867 Location: in an 84 Westy or Bowen Island, BC
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Posted: Fri Jul 21, 2017 6:09 pm Post subject: Re: Shift linkage or transaxle and how does this get resolved. |
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for me it was slop in the roll pin. i removed it, bashed the roll pin out, then bashed it back in. the other direction it is working its way loose again, so i'll need to do a better fix.
http://www.gowesty.com/product-details.php?id=20733 _________________ 84 Vanagon Westy, 1.9L, California raised but defected to Canada. |
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Gizmoman Samba Member
Joined: September 10, 2011 Posts: 1554 Location: Nevada
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Posted: Fri Jul 21, 2017 7:45 pm Post subject: Re: Shift linkage or transaxle and how does this get resolved. |
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Ahwahnee wrote: |
AZ Landshaper wrote: |
...I'm thinking the spring/ rod inside the trans is catching on something and not allowing the spring fully return my rod to the appropriate location... |
If that is what you suspect - what happens when you push the rod into the transaxle to the 1-2 or reverse position? Can you get it to hang up or does it always pop back? |
I hate to sidetrack this thread but that is exactly the issue I am having with my newly rebuilt AAP. Could be my cable shift system but that's not a relative issue with brand new cables.
I have clarity now on your issue as it so similar to mine - except mine's between 1st and 2nd _________________ 82 Vanagon Westy - AAZ 1.9 TD, HE200 Holset, WAIC, 27.75 dia tires, Electric power steering, 5-speed AAP w/.078 5th
Oversize spare carrier - stock location (no longer for sale). |
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AZ Landshaper Samba Member
Joined: February 08, 2009 Posts: 1698 Location: The Old Pueblo
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Posted: Sun Jul 23, 2017 7:59 am Post subject: Re: Shift linkage or transaxle and how does this get resolved. |
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I spent a couple hours on this yesterday. Determined the guide pin was bent and my home made bushing wasnt helping.
I replaced the pin after bending back as best I could (those pins are going for mad money). Used a bushing I located at ACE and greased the balls and rod. Shifted smooth last night. Fingers crossed its all OK today. _________________ Support Small Business.
-------------------------------------------------------
85 Weekender w/ EJ22
Previously
64, 71, 72, 73, 76, 81, 84, 85 & 87 Campmobiles and Westfalias
and a 67 bug. |
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shagginwagon83 Samba Member
Joined: February 07, 2016 Posts: 3804 Location: VA/TN
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Posted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 6:38 am Post subject: Re: Shift linkage or transaxle and how does this get resolved. |
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When my van is cold it is hard for it to shift from 1st to 2nd. I try to shift easy when its cold. When shifting from 1st to 2nd, I apply sight pressure till it catches 2nd. If I try to rush it, it will grind. This sometimes happens in 3rd.
I looked at my transmission and there is a boot that is split. I'm guessing I should start there with Van Cafe's Shift Linkage repair kit. _________________ Brandon
"Jo Ann" - '83.5 Westfalia EJ22e w/Peloquin
Instagram @joannthevan |
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wcdennis Samba Member
Joined: July 20, 2004 Posts: 955 Location: Winston-Salem NC
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Posted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 7:39 am Post subject: Re: Shift linkage or transaxle and how does this get resolved. |
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shagginwagon83 wrote: |
When my van is cold it is hard for it to shift from 1st to 2nd. I try to shift easy when its cold. When shifting from 1st to 2nd, I apply sight pressure till it catches 2nd. If I try to rush it, it will grind. This sometimes happens in 3rd.
I looked at my transmission and there is a boot that is split. I'm guessing I should start there with Van Cafe's Shift Linkage repair kit. |
I would think grinding when cold is a clutch issue, not a linkage problem. You may have a pilot bearing that is dragging when it is cold. |
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shagginwagon83 Samba Member
Joined: February 07, 2016 Posts: 3804 Location: VA/TN
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Posted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 7:46 am Post subject: Re: Shift linkage or transaxle and how does this get resolved. |
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wcdennis wrote: |
shagginwagon83 wrote: |
When my van is cold it is hard for it to shift from 1st to 2nd. I try to shift easy when its cold. When shifting from 1st to 2nd, I apply sight pressure till it catches 2nd. If I try to rush it, it will grind. This sometimes happens in 3rd.
I looked at my transmission and there is a boot that is split. I'm guessing I should start there with Van Cafe's Shift Linkage repair kit. |
I would think grinding when cold is a clutch issue, not a linkage problem. You may have a pilot bearing that is dragging when it is cold. |
Dang. That doesn't sound like a fun job at all. Should I first try replacing transmission oil and the shift kit? My 83 van has 120k miles on it and I don't think the transmission oil has ever been replaced.
Also, I see you're nearby. If I do need this pilot bearing replaced do you know of a shop that is worth driving to for the repair? There is a place called Westy Motorwerks in Asheville, but I haven't heard anything about them. _________________ Brandon
"Jo Ann" - '83.5 Westfalia EJ22e w/Peloquin
Instagram @joannthevan |
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MarkWard Samba Member
Joined: February 09, 2005 Posts: 17155 Location: Retired South Florida
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Posted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 8:18 am Post subject: Re: Shift linkage or transaxle and how does this get resolved. |
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Hard shift cold to me indicates a worn 2nd gear synchronizer ring. As a test, you could change the fluid to Redline MTL. It has a thin pour viscosity like
30 wt oil. If shifting improves cold, that would support what I believe is wrong.
Redline products are not readily available locally usually. They are pricey for a test. For testing you could use ATF temporarily, but don't put a lot of miles on it unless it's below freezing. _________________ ☮️ |
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[email protected] Samba Member
Joined: April 29, 2015 Posts: 704 Location: Berkeley Ca
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Posted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 1:15 pm Post subject: Re: Shift linkage or transaxle and how does this get resolved. |
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How cold? IF really cold does it go away after driving for a few miles? If shifting gets back to normal after heating up the tranny just double clutch till it warms up. So from 1rst clutch down shifter into neutral, clutch up clutch down and shifter into second. |
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shagginwagon83 Samba Member
Joined: February 07, 2016 Posts: 3804 Location: VA/TN
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Posted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 3:18 pm Post subject: Re: Shift linkage or transaxle and how does this get resolved. |
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[email protected] wrote: |
How cold? IF really cold does it go away after driving for a few miles? If shifting gets back to normal after heating up the tranny just double clutch till it warms up. So from 1rst clutch down shifter into neutral, clutch up clutch down and shifter into second. |
Literally after a mile its good. I'll have to try double clutch. That's interesting thanks for the comment. _________________ Brandon
"Jo Ann" - '83.5 Westfalia EJ22e w/Peloquin
Instagram @joannthevan |
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[email protected] Samba Member
Joined: April 29, 2015 Posts: 704 Location: Berkeley Ca
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Posted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 3:30 pm Post subject: Re: Shift linkage or transaxle and how does this get resolved. |
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^^^^
So I think you are good. Transmission fluid is cold hard to shift. Fluid is thick. Split boot you can just get new one. Push down and see condition of ball and condition of metal part. They should fit tight. If good clean regrease put on new boot and your good. Boot hard to get on it's very tight. Also mine wanted to slip off. Cable tie did the job |
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Wildthings Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005 Posts: 50353
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Posted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 4:28 pm Post subject: Re: Shift linkage or transaxle and how does this get resolved. |
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MarkWard wrote: |
Hard shift cold to me indicates a worn 2nd gear synchronizer ring. As a test, you could change the fluid to Redline MTL. |
Read the warning on this oil. Redline doesn't even recommend using their 90wt in these boxes. I tried this particular oil several years back, before Redline posted the warnings or at least before I noticed them. My ears told me immediately to get this crap out of my gear box as it wasn't doing its job. I don't remember now, but I think I didn't even run it for 500 miles before dumping it. |
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[email protected] Samba Member
Joined: April 29, 2015 Posts: 704 Location: Berkeley Ca
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Posted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 4:36 pm Post subject: Re: Shift linkage or transaxle and how does this get resolved. |
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Wildthings wrote: |
MarkWard wrote: |
Hard shift cold to me indicates a worn 2nd gear synchronizer ring. As a test, you could change the fluid to Redline MTL. |
Read the warning on this oil. Redline doesn't even recommend using their 90wt in these boxes. I tried this particular oil several years back, before Redline posted the warnings or at least before I noticed them. My ears told me immediately to get this crap out of my gear box as it wasn't doing its job. I don't remember now, but I think I didn't even run it for 500 miles before dumping it. |
Doesn't GoWesty recommend? 75W90 Confused
http://www.gowesty.com/product-details.php?v=&id=24358 |
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Wildthings Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005 Posts: 50353
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Posted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 6:32 pm Post subject: Re: Shift linkage or transaxle and how does this get resolved. |
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[email protected] wrote: |
Wildthings wrote: |
MarkWard wrote: |
Hard shift cold to me indicates a worn 2nd gear synchronizer ring. As a test, you could change the fluid to Redline MTL. |
Read the warning on this oil. Redline doesn't even recommend using their 90wt in these boxes. I tried this particular oil several years back, before Redline posted the warnings or at least before I noticed them. My ears told me immediately to get this crap out of my gear box as it wasn't doing its job. I don't remember now, but I think I didn't even run it for 500 miles before dumping it. |
Doesn't GoWesty recommend? 75W90 Confused
http://www.gowesty.com/product-details.php?v=&id=24358 |
Redline doesn't recommend their MT (manual transmission) lubes for use in differentials with hypoid gears:
"MTL, MT-85 & MT-90 are not for use in differentials with hypoid gears"
and they don't recommend their 75w90 Gl-5 for use in transmissions:
"This product is not designed for use in most manual transmissions or transaxles in passenger vehicles, since the extreme slipperiness may cause synchronizer mesh issues that lead to shifting problems"
Whether their GL-5 oil actually causes problems in VW transmissions is up to debate. |
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gears Samba Member
Joined: October 28, 2002 Posts: 4391 Location: Tamarack, Bend, Kailua
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Posted: Sat Dec 09, 2017 8:05 am Post subject: Re: Shift linkage or transaxle and how does this get resolved. |
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Red Line MTL and MT-90 were recommended by numerous VW shops in the past, because they provide incredibly slick shifting. In our Porsche gear business, we always steered shops away from using these GL4 oils, favoring proven high quality GL5 oils as recommended by Porsche.
Unfortunately, smooth shifts don't mean the oil is "protecting" (from metal-to-metal contact) better than other oils. In fact, usually the opposite is true. _________________ aka Pablo, Geary
9.36 @ 146 in '86 Hot & Sticky
'90 Syncro Westy SVX
'87 Syncro GL 2.5
https://guardtransaxle.com |
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