91 2.1L flywheel seal nightmare

[DrDarby]

Some background. I have a customers 91 Westy, engine rebuilt at 135,000 miles complete linebore was perfect at that time, currently has 183,000 miles. 5k miles ago while in Mexico the Flywheel seal began leaking and was replaced. He drove it up here (N-Illinois) and flywheel seal leaking. We pulled it replaced the seal and O ring and 500 miles later it had oil all over the hatch and left a huge puddle after 20 minute 65mph drive. Seal had a split at about 7 oclock. Replaced the seal and oring and it contunued to drip.
Replaced the seal and installed a rebuilt T4 flywheel as his looked like it may have com e loose at one time. 100 miles and oil all over the clutch (slipping). Replaced clutch, seal and drove around the block hard, dumped 2qts oil. Back out with the trans, seal had split at bottom that I couldnt be sure my Technician didnt cause so I checked end play, replaced seal and oring, cleaned the case, JB Welded cam plugs etc and now 50 miles later its dripping about one drip every 30 seconds. Seals have all been Victor-Reinz and this last one Fel-Pro but looks like a Brazilaian SABO.
Im about at wits end. End play good, engine quiet, no knocks, oil pressure perfect.
Any input appreciated before I take the van out for an unfortunate incedent
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Midwest Autosavers, Inc. Woodstock, IL

[AtlasShrugged]

There has been some disappointment with some of the rear main seals. GoWesty did a write up on the issues.

Don't know about that seal split at 7 o'clock..that sounds like an alignment/rough flywheel surface/crankshaft end play problem.

It would be worth checking the end play on the crankshaft.

And read the GoWesty article too. http://www.gowesty.com/tech-article-details.php?id=60

[ALIKA T3]

It happened to me on a Bay Window bus, after a few miles, leak.

I mounted those red silicone seals, same as the previous one that had been mounted.

I found out that the flywheel as a little round radius that pushes too hard on the seal, cuts the lip and then the piece of cut lip gets caught in the main lip: huge leak.

I mounted a black seal like the VW model after spending hours comparing different pictures. It needed to be driven a little further in to avoid that problem coming again.

Maybe that's your issue?

Anyway, on the Vanagon engine, I mount the Sabo brand, it's much better than the commonly found Victor Reinz orange silicone seals. Never been a problem
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[Alaric.H]

Make sure it is not the input shaft seal on the trans it can seem like a fly wheel seal.

[Zeitgeist 13]

When I pulled my flywheel a while back (due to leaking), I found that the outer part of the rear main seal had welded itself to the case. I had to very carefully and tediously scrape away every bit of the old seal. I can imagine that if some of an old seal were left in place, it could distort the new seal enough to cause leaks...or alternatively, if in the aforementioned scraping process, the scraper gouged the case enough to allow oil to escape past the seal.
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Casey--

'89 Bluestar ALH w/12mm Waldo pump, PP764 and GT2052
'01 Weekender --> full camper
y u rune klassik?

[MarkWard]

What a pain in the arse. The oil needs to return into the case. I recall a return hole. Perhaps some case sealer has it partially restricted. I would also verify that crankcase pressure is not building up under full load. Hope you figure it out.
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☮️

[hdenter]

What about the installation tool? Is it cockeyed or for some reason not seating the seal square and at the right depth? I like the blocked drain passage idea as well. Maybe a piece of an earlier seal you had to pry out tore off and is blocking the oil's drain path.

Hans

Hans
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'79 triple white convertible bug
'84 sunroof vanagon
'85 weekender

[Mark Lewalski]

Don't know about all these failures... but my seal blew out on I-75 coming back from Sarasota a couple years ago.

Looked at buying inexpensive seals but then read the GoWesty article and ended up buying their seal. Had the garage install it.

Even if it would have cost $30, I would have bought it as I think that's cheap compared to the actual work replacing it; I wanted it done right the first time if at all possible.

http://www.gowesty.com/tech-article-details.php?id=60

I figured they had a lot more experience in dealing with this than I did.

Good luck,
Mark
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'89 Vanagon GL Wolfsburg "Bluestar" (given to and owned by my son now)
'87 Vanagon Weekender
'74 Thing

[DrDarby]

The seal surface is perfect and clean, I've run a mehanics wire thru both upper and lower drain holes. The seal has to bottom out squarely on a W/B to hold the first (oversized OD) shim that in turn supports the rear piece. Fresh 2nd flywheel shows clutch marks around OD.and I can wiggle the crank up and down in the bearing but not side to side. I suspect the crank is out of whack as there was evidence of a loose flywheel in the past.
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Midwest Autosavers, Inc. Woodstock, IL

[Wildthings]

I would think if the flywheel were out of whack the engine would vibrate like crazy. Is your flywheel o-ring installed correctly? Sometimes people miss noticing and removing the old o-ring and just set the new one inside the flywheel bore with the old one still in the groove. The new o-ring will then be squished to heck while the crankshaft end play will be way way off.

I agree with others that the Sabo seal from Go Westy or others is the way to go.

It is odd that your seal is splitting, haven't seen that before.

[onslowb]

The only time I've seen a seal get torn up is when there was no grease applied to it upon installation.
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1987 Weekender 2.4GW manual
1970 Vw Bug SP 1600

[hans j]

We had one similar to this. Turns out the machine shop turned down the main seal surface and it leaked no matter what we did. We finally cut up an old bell housing and able to start the engine without the trans installed to see where it was really leaking.

Replaced the flywheel and stopped leaking.

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1986 Canadian Syncro Westy TDI - 1989 Syncro Single Cab - 2001 Audi S4 - 1981 VW Caddy ABA - 1980 VW Caddy EV - 1973 VW T-181

[Bambus]

Sure would like to hear how this nightmare was resolved... :ear

[DrDarby]

Since we'd changed flywheels and it still leaked and we suspected that the crank was walking slightly side to side (no noise, good oil pressure) we swapped in a good used shortblock and transferred his pistons, cylinders and heads. No more oil leak and the van left Chicago and has been through California, South to Mexico, then Alaska and back to Mexico and on South of there. Last we heard all was ok.
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Midwest Autosavers, Inc. Woodstock, IL