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minsk
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Terry Kay
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Joined: June 22, 2003
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 Posted: Tue Jan 19, 2016 9:23 pm Post subject: Re: flywheel pilot bearing sleeve |
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I'll bet that the sleeve your looking for Dan it part of the flywheel assembly, not intended to ever be yanked out.
This is more than likely why it isn't listed as a separate part.
Take the flywheel, the pilot shaft, & pilot bearing to a machine shop, have one made if your in need of a replacement.
This would be my advice.
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dhaavers
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Location: NE MN (tinyurl.com/dhaaverslocation)
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| Posted: Tue Jan 19, 2016 9:28 pm Post subject: Re: flywheel pilot bearing sleeve |
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Never heard of it...or else mine stayed in place:
Roll pins, yes..."pilot bearing sleeve", no.
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86 White Wolfsburg Westy Weekender
"The WonderVan"
<EDITED TO PROTECT INNOCENT PIXELS> |
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minsk
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dhaavers
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Joined: March 19, 2010
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Location: NE MN (tinyurl.com/dhaaverslocation)
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| Posted: Tue Jan 19, 2016 9:35 pm Post subject: Re: flywheel pilot bearing sleeve |
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That pic is the reinstall, fresh from resurfacing at the shop...so I guess my boys
kept track of it for me, or didn't let it bother them when they did the work...???
Sorry I'm no help...good luck!
- Dave
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minsk
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BillM
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Joined: June 18, 2004
Posts: 1381
Location: Stonington,CT
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| Posted: Wed Jan 20, 2016 4:21 am Post subject: Re: flywheel pilot bearing sleeve |
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I think you are looking for the metal ring that holds the felt "seal"..
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Bill M
87 Westy |
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borninabus
Samba R&D Dept.
Joined: May 18, 2006
Posts: 4536
Location: Arizona Highways
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| Posted: Wed Jan 20, 2016 7:12 am Post subject: Re: flywheel pilot bearing sleeve |
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consider converting to the diesel pilot bearing, it has an integrated seal and does not require the retainer.
all it takes is the bearing and a minute with a step drill.
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88 Van WBX, A/T - 13 JSW TDI 6M/T - 2012 Touareg TDI Sport |
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minsk
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Terry Kay
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Joined: June 22, 2003
Posts: 13331
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| Posted: Wed Jan 20, 2016 8:14 am Post subject: Re: flywheel pilot bearing sleeve |
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I do believe that the portion of the flywheel or insert as your calling it is used as an outer race for the bearing, and am not real sure if running a bearing on an un-hardened surface would be a real good idea.
It is there for a reason.
I'd be looking for another flywheel --a new one would be a good move, or go have one made at a machine shop.
Running that pilot bearing without it may be more problems down the road as all of a sudden you's have an oversized pilot bearing hole in the flywheel, and an undersized bearing running on unhardened race area--
Not a good move,
Mr. Roger's over at gerry is looking for something that doesn't exist.
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insyncro
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Posts: 15086
Location: New York
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| Posted: Wed Jan 20, 2016 8:18 am Post subject: Re: flywheel pilot bearing sleeve |
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I know of numerous van with well over 100,000 miles on them with the diesel PB upgrade...no issues at all.
This upgrade has been reported since 1989 on Gerry...nothing new here. |
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Guybrush
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Posts: 453
Location: Arizona
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| Posted: Wed Jan 20, 2016 8:31 am Post subject: Re: flywheel pilot bearing sleeve |
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When I took out the flywheel from my engine recently, that retainer was missing. The effect of that was immediately visible: the felt washer had escaped the hole and was found as a bunched up greasy thing lodged in a recess on the clutch disc. The previous owner had just replaced the clutch in mid 2014.
Based on previous posts, I made the mod for a diesel style bearing:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=7949031&highlight=#7949031 |
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Terry Kay
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| Posted: Wed Jan 20, 2016 8:34 am Post subject: Re: flywheel pilot bearing sleeve |
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So, what you are saying that this diesel bearing has an oversized OD, and and an undersized ID to accommodate the pilot shaft pinion, and will run right on the flywheel with no outer race.
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minsk
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Guybrush
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Location: Arizona
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| Posted: Wed Jan 20, 2016 8:39 am Post subject: Re: flywheel pilot bearing sleeve |
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| Terry Kay wrote: |
| So, what you are saying that this diesel bearing has an oversized OD, and and an undersized ID to accommodate the pilot shaft pinion, and will run right on the flywheel with no outer race. |
Same exact outer and inner diameter as far as I could measure, just longer because of the o-ring. |
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Terry Kay
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| Posted: Wed Jan 20, 2016 8:48 am Post subject: Re: flywheel pilot bearing sleeve |
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From what I saw on the other post in that other thread, you had another outer race machined for the pilot bearing & you popped it back into the pilot bearing hole in the flywheel--right?
This makes sense--to me anyway.
If the original one is gone, your going to have to replace it with something--
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Guybrush
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| Posted: Wed Jan 20, 2016 9:03 am Post subject: Re: flywheel pilot bearing sleeve |
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| Terry Kay wrote: |
From what I saw on the other post in that other thread, you had another outer race machined for the pilot bearing & you popped it back into the pilot bearing hole in the flywheel--right?
This makes sense--to me anyway.
If the original one is gone, your going to have to replace it with something-- |
The longer bearing went into the crank the same way as the old bearing did. Just tapped it in. Tight. Only difference is it sticks out of the crank by about 3.5 mm when seated in.
So I had machined a clearance in the back of the flywheel (I was going to buy a bit and do it myself, but it didn't cost more to have it done, and that's a better result in my opinion than a 2-step hole that goes deeper). That clearance hole is large enough to fit over the end of the bearing without hanging, and 3/16" deep.
But really, there wasn't much of an alternative. I looked into that missing retainer, and it can't be found, and most people don't even know about it. Buying another flywheel, that's expensive and overkill, and who says that retainer would be on there anyway. I bet it's not present on rebuilt flywheels. Putting the felt washer in without the retainer was wrong as well knowing that would come out very quickly (it's even said that the felt washer that comes with an engine reseal kit is the wrong size...).
So, there was no doubt for me that was the thing to do at that point.
Note I'm just a guy who did the mod based on what I've read, but I don't have the experience to attest to the longevity of it myself.
Last edited by Guybrush on Wed Jan 20, 2016 9:07 am; edited 1 time in total |
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minsk
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?Waldo?
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| Posted: Wed Jan 20, 2016 9:13 am Post subject: Re: flywheel pilot bearing sleeve |
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The metal ring in the flywheel is *not* the pilot bearing race. It is a ring that helps keep the felt ring pilot bearing seal in place. That whole felt ring/retainer is a bad joke. Both WBX and diesel pilot bearings have their outer race as the metal cage and inner 'race' is the input shaft itself. Both WBX and diesel pilot bearings install in the crankshaft, not the flywheel. The diesel pilot bearing does not use the felt ring, but instead has a little rubber seal integral to the pilot bearing. Because of that little seal the pilot bearing cage is a little taller. When installed in the WBX crank, the diesel pilot bearing protrudes from the face of the crank the thickness of the little rubber seal. In order to make proper clearance, the flywheel needs its center hole enlarged slightly to accommodate the added depth of the taller diesel pilot bearing. The step drill bit works perfectly for this and takes all of two seconds.
If the pilot bearing has failed, then be sure to check the oil slinger in the bell housing. It is almost always loose and if left so will cause a complete rework of the clutch in short order. |
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minsk
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