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epowell
Samba Member
Joined: September 23, 2015
Posts: 4733
Location: Czech (mostly) Vancouver (sometimes)
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 Posted: Wed Jan 20, 2016 4:31 am Post subject: Is Tarping a bad idea? |
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Hi Friends...
...just got back to freezing Czech after 6 weeks in South India. (great trip!)
I had put a huge tarp on my van before going - and when I got back my girlfriend told me that some of the guys around town were saying that the tarp is a bad idea because it will trap moisture and promote rusting...
...is this true?
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BillM
Samba Member
Joined: June 18, 2004
Posts: 1381
Location: Stonington,CT
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| Posted: Wed Jan 20, 2016 4:41 am Post subject: Re: Is Tarpping a bad idea? |
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Trap moisture,scratch paint,rust,mold..
Breathable cover or nothing if you can't get it under a carport/in garage.
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Bill M
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epowell
Samba Member
Joined: September 23, 2015
Posts: 4733
Location: Czech (mostly) Vancouver (sometimes)
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| Posted: Wed Jan 20, 2016 5:38 am Post subject: Re: Is Tarpping a bad idea? |
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| BillM wrote: |
Breathable cover |
?? But a cover that would not keep moisture out would also absorb moisture and keep it near the van, no?
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fleet_maintenance
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Joined: November 01, 2013
Posts: 323
Location: Upstate NY
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| Posted: Wed Jan 20, 2016 5:46 am Post subject: Re: Is Tarpping a bad idea? |
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| The tarp would be most useful if the van were parked atop it. It would help prevent moisture from rising out of the grass to attack the underside, like a vapor barrier. I'm with Bill M on this one. |
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epowell
Samba Member
Joined: September 23, 2015
Posts: 4733
Location: Czech (mostly) Vancouver (sometimes)
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| Posted: Wed Jan 20, 2016 6:02 am Post subject: Re: Is Tarpping a bad idea? |
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| fleet_maintenance wrote: |
| The tarp would be most useful if the van were parked atop it. It would help prevent moisture from rising out of the grass to attack the underside, like a vapor barrier. I'm with Bill M on this one. |
well, we learn by making mistakes  luckily it was 6 weeks not 6 YEARS! 
...anyhow right now I am outside taking the tarp OFF.
Yes, tarp on the ground is a good idea.
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[email protected]
Samba Member
Joined: June 02, 2011
Posts: 1593
Location: Louisville, ky
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| Posted: Wed Jan 20, 2016 6:39 am Post subject: Re: Is Tarpping a bad idea? |
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| epowell wrote: |
Hi Friends...
...just got back to freezing Czech after 6 weeks in South India. (great trip!)
I had put a huge tarp on my van before going - and when I got back my girlfriend told me that some of the guys around town were saying that the tarp is a bad idea because it will trap moisture and promote rusting...
...is this true?
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I think we should admire a job done well.
When you put a tarp under it, be sure to raise the center of the tarp so water does not puddle on top of the tarp, or poke a small hole in the low spot so water runs out. |
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danfromsyr
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Joined: March 01, 2004
Posts: 15144
Location: Syracuse, NY
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| Posted: Wed Jan 20, 2016 6:49 am Post subject: Re: Is Tarpping a bad idea? |
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someone shoulda put a Bow on that package 
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| Abscate wrote: |
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epowell
Samba Member
Joined: September 23, 2015
Posts: 4733
Location: Czech (mostly) Vancouver (sometimes)
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| Posted: Wed Jan 20, 2016 7:09 am Post subject: Re: Is Tarpping a bad idea? |
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Well, in the love for my van, and gung-ho enthusiasm, I went over-board - first I bought a tarp (a bit expensive) twice the necessary size (10m X 15m), and now realize that it did more harm than good
...anyhow, the underside of the van is still bone dry (it has been really dry here for ages), and I guess any moisture will be frozen and won't cause rusting... BUT I did notice a couple of areas where there is bubbling that I didn't notice before (maybe I just didn't notice it)... but I think that perhaps the moisture got trapped and froze, and expanded and cracked open a few tiny areas where the bondo work was questionable anyway --- good side of this is that it shows me more clearly where the bad body work is.
One GOOD thing in this is that before the trip/tarpping, I had this weird little water leak - somehow the floor under the carpet on the passenger side in front of the seat has always been a bit wet, with a bit of water always there. NOW after 6 weeks of tarpping that floor area is bone dry --- so to me this says that that leak is not something to do with the coolant system, but rather some leak in the body itself.... gotta find this leak!
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Jeffrey Lee
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Joined: February 04, 2014
Posts: 1488
Location: Wisconsin
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| Posted: Wed Jan 20, 2016 8:18 am Post subject: Re: Is Tarpping a bad idea? |
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| epowell wrote: |
| One GOOD thing in this is that before the trip/tarpping, I had this weird little water leak - somehow the floor under the carpet on the passenger side in front of the seat has always been a bit wet, with a bit of water always there. NOW after 6 weeks of tarpping that floor area is bone dry --- so to me this says that that leak is not something to do with the coolant system, but rather some leak in the body itself.... gotta find this leak! |
Lower passenger-side windshield seal. A common place for a leak, especially if the seal is original/old.
At the very least, pull the rubber lip back and peer in there with a bright light and look for water and rust. Dry it and apply a good windshield sealant like 3M 8509.
Eventually you may have to remove the whole seal and replace, and you will likely find you'll need to do rust repair. Search the archives. |
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insyncro
Banned
Joined: March 07, 2002
Posts: 15086
Location: New York
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| Posted: Wed Jan 20, 2016 8:23 am Post subject: Re: Is Tarpping a bad idea? |
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My storm cover is GoreTex, just like highend winter jackets...it wicks moisture away.
The price of the cover will scare most away 
Mice love tarpped vehicles  |
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epowell
Samba Member
Joined: September 23, 2015
Posts: 4733
Location: Czech (mostly) Vancouver (sometimes)
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| Posted: Wed Jan 20, 2016 9:08 am Post subject: Re: Is Tarpping a bad idea? |
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| Jeffrey Lee wrote: |
| epowell wrote: |
| One GOOD thing in this is that before the trip/tarpping, I had this weird little water leak - somehow the floor under the carpet on the passenger side in front of the seat has always been a bit wet, with a bit of water always there. NOW after 6 weeks of tarpping that floor area is bone dry --- so to me this says that that leak is not something to do with the coolant system, but rather some leak in the body itself.... gotta find this leak! |
Lower passenger-side windshield seal. A common place for a leak, especially if the seal is original/old.
At the very least, pull the rubber lip back and peer in there with a bright light and look for water and rust. Dry it and apply a good windshield sealant like 3M 8509.
Eventually you may have to remove the whole seal and replace, and you will likely find you'll need to do rust repair. Search the archives. |
AH! Jeff! Thank you! I was really hoping someone might just chime in and tell me what is most likely going on with that leak - especially since soon I am going to begin some serious interior reno work - and wet floors need solving first! THANKS!
I well know that down the road at some point I will need to do some comprehensive body work... I am more and more noticing obvious areas of major bondo...
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epowell
Samba Member
Joined: September 23, 2015
Posts: 4733
Location: Czech (mostly) Vancouver (sometimes)
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| Posted: Wed Jan 20, 2016 9:15 am Post subject: Re: Is Tarpping a bad idea? |
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| insyncro wrote: |
My storm cover is GoreTex, just like highend winter jackets...it wicks moisture away.
The price of the cover will scare most away
Mice love tarpped vehicles |
yeah... likely would be cheaper to build a car-port.
Mice won't go near my van... here's why
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Tom Powell
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Joined: December 01, 2005
Posts: 4855
Location: Kaneohe
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| Posted: Wed Jan 20, 2016 9:46 am Post subject: Re: Is Tarpping a bad idea? |
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That's more than tarpping. That is bondage. A bit scary.
Daizee has given us the methods for prevention of rodent intrusion.
Peppermint oil on cotton swabs in a jar with holes punched in the lid.
Aloha
tp |
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epowell
Samba Member
Joined: September 23, 2015
Posts: 4733
Location: Czech (mostly) Vancouver (sometimes)
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| Posted: Wed Jan 20, 2016 10:03 am Post subject: Re: Is Tarpping a bad idea? |
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| Tom Powell wrote: |
That's more than tarpping. That is bondage. A bit scary.
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I didn't intend to wrap it so much but the wind was making the thing go NUTS! I guess it was a particularly windy day that I tarpped it... it was frightening . . .
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?Waldo?
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Joined: February 22, 2006
Posts: 9752
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| Posted: Wed Jan 20, 2016 12:55 pm Post subject: Re: Is Tarpping a bad idea? |
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A couple explanations.
Gore-Tex does not 'wick moisture away'. My understanding (from a friend who is an engineer at Gore) is that it is a very special material that is formulated with pores small enough to prevent liquid water from passing through but large enough to pass air and water vapor. The result is a material that is both waterproof AND yet is breathable to allow air/moisture to pass through.
The issue with tarping a vehicle, especially if one does not tarp the ground, is that you create a mini weather system. During the day the sun will warm the tarp and air within the tarp. That warm air will suck in moisture especially from the ground. At night, the air will cool off, typically below the dew point and deposit the moisture on the metal/glass of the vehicle. If left that way for long, the issue can become extreme. I saw one tarped vehicle that had a layer of black/white/gray mold covering every interior surface...
A car covered with Gore-Tex would allow the warm moisture laden air to leave and yet would prevent rain from getting into the cover. Win-win. |
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Jeffrey Lee
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Joined: February 04, 2014
Posts: 1488
Location: Wisconsin
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| Posted: Wed Jan 20, 2016 2:35 pm Post subject: Re: Is Tarping a bad idea? |
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Speaking from personal experience, I can add that if you allow snow to accumulate on the roof, whatever moisture intrudes into the interior will soon condense on the cold underside of the roof, like the condensation on a bottle of beer fresh out of the fridge.
My current van was stored this way, covered in Tyvek, for several cold winters and hot summers, and the amount of black mildew/mold which formed on the underside of the roof was a sight to behold ...
Took repeated cleanings with bleach and Tilex to get it spanking clean again.
Andrew, I'd be curious to know what your friend from Gore thinks of this application of Gore-Tex and other waterproof-breathable technical fabrics. I understood that the breathability function was largely driven by the higher interior temps of, say, a ski jacket or other clothing, etc.. I wonder about the effectiveness of Gore-Tex on a vehicle whose interior temp is usually much closer to ambient? |
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insyncro
Banned
Joined: March 07, 2002
Posts: 15086
Location: New York
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| Posted: Wed Jan 20, 2016 2:38 pm Post subject: Re: Is Tarping a bad idea? |
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| I love our shop cats |
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Wildthings
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Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 50353
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| Posted: Wed Jan 20, 2016 3:06 pm Post subject: Re: Is Tarping a bad idea? |
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If you have an old Camaro with 1 1/2" of ground clearance then tarping the ground might a plus, but you would need to keep water off of the top of the tarp or you would just make matters worse. With a van that sits high off the ground I don't think you would want to put a tarp under it unless you were parked over a bog as even the slightest breeze is going to keep moisture from reaching the under sides.
Laying bubble wrap or other insulation over the roof and then tarping it would help keep condensation from forming on the underside of the roof, especially if one kept a sufficient amount of fresh desiccant inside the cab.
Some people report very good success with tarping rigs, multi layers should help here. |
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Merian
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Posts: 5212
Location: Orygun
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| Posted: Wed Jan 20, 2016 3:49 pm Post subject: Re: Is Tarping a bad idea? |
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yes, there has to be a gradient in vapor density for the vapor to move - but as a poster noted above, this will happen as the sun warms the van
no need for a membrane in this appl. - you want to bar moisture entry form the ground as per above AND then put up a framework over the van - he could anchor it to the house - then put up a tarp on that so it does not touch the van and gives an air space |
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?Waldo?
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Joined: February 22, 2006
Posts: 9752
Location: Where?
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| Posted: Wed Jan 20, 2016 3:59 pm Post subject: Re: Is Tarping a bad idea? |
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| Really, a heated garage would be best... |
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