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EmpiGT Samba Member
Joined: January 27, 2005 Posts: 2597
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Posted: Sun Jan 31, 2016 2:15 pm Post subject: Re: Whose 1956 23-Window at Barrett-Jackson bus is this? |
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campingbox wrote: |
EmpiGT wrote: |
campingbox wrote: |
vwbusman66 wrote: |
campingbox wrote: |
Four 21 Windows, only one had a middle seat kick panel. That bus sold for $35k more than the other three. The people building these busses for resale should take note and stop being cheap and thinking the buyers at these auctions don't care about the details. |
Its amazing what that little piece does to make the interior of a bus look more complete! |
Obviously I'm biased towards that piece, but it extends to other details as well.
Like Doug says, the last 10% is enthusiast driven. I'm just pointing out that the passion can pay off.
That blue 21 looks nice, what was it like in person? The other three 21s did not look all that hot but I think all four of them sold for pretty high prices.
The 23 seemed underpriced - I'm sure we'll see it back up for sale for more soon. |
It had a middle seat kick panel but it was attached to a bay middle seat |
I know, imagine how much the bus would have gone for if it had the correct seat too! |
Probably would have brought less in that crowd, Those pesky grab handles on the back get in the way. That's why the 23 sold for less. |
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icemanhd Samba Member
Joined: May 07, 2007 Posts: 275 Location: Camano Island, WA
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Posted: Sun Jan 31, 2016 4:36 pm Post subject: Re: Whose 1956 23-Window at Barrett-Jackson bus is this? |
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Lots of factors driving the lower prices at Barrett Jackson, I'm convinced one of the biggest ones is the US dollar has strengthened against the Euro, UK Pound, Australian Dollar, etc... Pull up a chart of the dollar to euro exchange rate over the last 5 yrs, a decent average over the last 5 or so yrs is $1.35 or $1.40 (if you ignore the last 12 months). The current exchange rate is $1.08 so the euro has fallen more than 20% making everything in the US at least 20% more expensive. Look at the 10 yr chart on the link below, back when 21/23 window prices were going through roof in 2008 and late 2009 is when it was $1.45 to almost $1.60 for a euro..
http://www.xe.com/currencycharts/?from=EUR&to=USD&view=10Y _________________ 71 Drag Ghia
67 Bug, Hot VWs feature car
68 912
76 912E
87 911 Carrera |
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hgandmc Samba Member
Joined: September 10, 2007 Posts: 45
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Posted: Sun Jan 31, 2016 4:53 pm Post subject: Re: Whose 1956 23-Window at Barrett-Jackson bus is this? |
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I think that splits became hip and popular in advertising about 10 years ago. Starting a surge of big pocket collectors to have to put vw's in their collections. When in the past they would have never put a vw next to their euro sports cars, now that they all jumped into the market, their purchases have been made. For the past 45 years of my life, the vw was a working mans and teenagers hobby. Now the big boys are satisfied, who of us has 95k? |
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cdennisg Samba Member
Joined: November 02, 2004 Posts: 20278 Location: Sandpoint, ID
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Posted: Sun Jan 31, 2016 5:05 pm Post subject: Re: Whose 1956 23-Window at Barrett-Jackson bus is this? |
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'64cal lookdub wrote: |
GTV wrote: |
Goes to show you that the average Barry Jackson buyer doesn't know shit about cars, and B-J value has zero bearing on the actual market. |
x2 |
I disagree. More than once after the infamous $200K mouse grey bus sale, I have been told by an owner of a POS bus that is is worth way more now since they saw that shiny grey bus on TV sell for a big pile of money. Doesn't matter that their rusty panel with a few camper windows cut in and a dead dog on the back seat is really only worth a grand in parts. _________________ nothing |
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hgandmc Samba Member
Joined: September 10, 2007 Posts: 45
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Posted: Sun Jan 31, 2016 5:21 pm Post subject: Re: Whose 1956 23-Window at Barrett-Jackson bus is this? |
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Sure, all media attention to anything drives that market. I know I listen to more Eagles songs the last two weeks than in the previous year. I just wonder how many more people are going 95k any more, but it did lift the bottom floor of the vws up some, buses more. I just think that the high numbers might pull back some, maybe half as the trend cools. Leaving it back to vw folk. |
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Malokin Martin Samba Member
Joined: August 19, 2007 Posts: 3099 Location: E-burg
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Posted: Mon Feb 01, 2016 5:31 am Post subject: Re: Whose 1956 23-Window at Barrett-Jackson bus is this? |
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cdennisg wrote: |
'64cal lookdub wrote: |
GTV wrote: |
Goes to show you that the average Barry Jackson buyer doesn't know shit about cars, and B-J value has zero bearing on the actual market. |
x2 |
I disagree. More than once after the infamous $200K mouse grey bus sale, I have been told by an owner of a POS bus that is is worth way more now since they saw that shiny grey bus on TV sell for a big pile of money. Doesn't matter that their rusty panel with a few camper windows cut in and a dead dog on the back seat is really only worth a grand in parts. |
Well said. Market correction is coming for sure.
Forever price drop? Probably not. But it's going to dip. BJ is the high water mark on bonkers pricing of bus' that ACTUALLY sell and it just fizzled multiple times during the auction. It works both ways. |
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pyrOman Fire Master
Joined: July 21, 2003 Posts: 12408 Location: Over 2002 posts deleted!
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Posted: Mon Feb 01, 2016 7:35 am Post subject: Re: Whose 1956 23-Window at Barrett-Jackson bus is this? |
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I second that emotion. While our daily drivers and even "occasional" campers will not sell for $100k +, they will definitely NOT be the $1000 and under deals they once were. Though the "this is the market price" statement isn't quite right, it surely does affect the value of what we all got to some degree. _________________ Some people are so busy being clever they don't have time enough to be wise. |
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TinCanFab Samba Member
Joined: April 04, 2006 Posts: 2743 Location: Waterford, California
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Posted: Mon Feb 01, 2016 7:59 am Post subject: Re: Whose 1956 23-Window at Barrett-Jackson bus is this? |
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"Resale red" used to be a safe bet with an auction car. I'm just as surprised as anyone else that the later model busses did so well in comparison. We are talking about the holy grail of our hobby (early Samba) being slapped in the face by ignorant people with a big checkbook. We all keep hoping that a more accurate restoration will make our personal busses worth more..... I don't think that's the case when looking for a quick sale. It needs to look like something that will help a buyers mid life crisis, with bright or vibrant colors. _________________ Check out my truck brought back from the dead... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=420762&highlight=sprayed+blood
They're never really ever finished 58 rag build...
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=658092 |
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Braukuche Samba Member
Joined: September 03, 2004 Posts: 11004
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Posted: Mon Feb 01, 2016 8:00 am Post subject: Re: Whose 1956 23-Window at Barrett-Jackson bus is this? |
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It's more likely that it is a matter of supply finally catching up with demand. for years there were very few restored buses out there and the auction houses had no sense of real value. Now resto shops and individuals with no VW prior knowledge are seeing a quick buck thanks to high profile sales and TV shows and are doing quickly restorations to meet the demand. Auction houses are more wiling to take them on and the net result is too many half assed buses on the market to meet demand from uneducated buyers.
The same has happened in the early Porsche world.
Basically exceptional buses will still sell for big money while shiny turds will get less And the rusty beaters most of us drive will continue to hold value but not shoot up to the stars because likely the guys buying them to do these quick flips will discover that not all that is split bus is gold. _________________ Go Reds! Smash state!
Retirement is here!
1956 Ghia
1959 SO-23 Westfalia
1960 double cab
1960 Baja Bug
1963 stretched double cab
1962 Golde sunroof Ghia
1963 356 B coupe
1963 Notchback
1967 21 window less rusty now |
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rebapuck Samba Member
Joined: May 17, 2007 Posts: 1023 Location: Chapel Hill NC
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Posted: Mon Feb 01, 2016 8:51 am Post subject: Re: Whose 1956 23-Window at Barrett-Jackson bus is this? |
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I like shiny and colorful. If I had the money, I would have bought every one of 'em, correct or not. _________________ Judy
1966 Camper "Hannah"
1967 SingleCab "Khady" |
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mandraks Samba Member
Joined: November 28, 2004 Posts: 7050 Location: Lawrenceville, Ga
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Posted: Mon Feb 01, 2016 9:59 am Post subject: Re: Whose 1956 23-Window at Barrett-Jackson bus is this? |
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i think one aspect that plays into later buses getting higher prices is overall driveability.
Many people can NOT deal with a 36 horse motor, skinny bias plies, 6 volt electrical systems etc. Bench seats, you name it.
you put them into a 67, with 12 volt, walkthrough, or at least split front seats, wipers that can keep up with rain, a somewhat "normal" top speed, working radios, ability to charge a phone, bigger brakes, etc
don't forget that a 32 ford will run circles around our buses, and there is a TON of those available.
compare a 56 belair to a 56 samba, both price and performance, mod cons, etc.
if you had a 56 and 67 deluxe, which one would let a friend borrow? _________________ regards
Uli
----------------------------------------
'53 3-Fold Oval, L35 Metallic Blue, looking for a narrow hatch panel |
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crofty Judas of the North
Joined: August 09, 2000 Posts: 19672 Location: Land of Whine and Phonies
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Posted: Mon Feb 01, 2016 10:14 am Post subject: Re: Whose 1956 23-Window at Barrett-Jackson bus is this? |
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You don't drive a 100k Bus. _________________ Your Vanagon sucks, Stop waving at me.
HamburgerBrad wrote: |
I slept on crofty's tent once. I passed out drunk from two bottles of Everett's brother's wine. |
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Erik G Samba Member
Joined: October 16, 2002 Posts: 13278 Location: Tejas!
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Posted: Mon Feb 01, 2016 10:16 am Post subject: Re: Whose 1956 23-Window at Barrett-Jackson bus is this? |
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Agree on the drivability of a late bus vs an early bus, but I doubt these auction buses are getting driven much. I just assume they stay in the corner of someone's big collection _________________ Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery! |
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cdennisg Samba Member
Joined: November 02, 2004 Posts: 20278 Location: Sandpoint, ID
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Posted: Mon Feb 01, 2016 10:20 am Post subject: Re: Whose 1956 23-Window at Barrett-Jackson bus is this? |
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Braukuche wrote: |
It's more likely that it is a matter of supply finally catching up with demand. for years there were very few restored buses out there and the auction houses had no sense of real value. Now resto shops and individuals with no VW prior knowledge are seeing a quick buck thanks to high profile sales and TV shows and are doing quickly restorations to meet the demand. Auction houses are more wiling to take them on and the net result is too many half assed buses on the market to meet demand from uneducated buyers.
The same has happened in the early Porsche world.
Basically exceptional buses will still sell for big money while shiny turds will get less And the rusty beaters most of us drive will continue to hold value but not shoot up to the stars because likely the guys buying them to do these quick flips will discover that not all that is split bus is gold. |
Well said. I agree. _________________ nothing |
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Clara Samba Member
Joined: June 14, 2003 Posts: 12400
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Posted: Mon Feb 01, 2016 10:25 am Post subject: Re: Whose 1956 23-Window at Barrett-Jackson bus is this? |
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cdennisg wrote: |
'64cal lookdub wrote: |
GTV wrote: |
Goes to show you that the average Barry Jackson buyer doesn't know shit about cars, and B-J value has zero bearing on the actual market. |
x2 |
I disagree. More than once after the infamous $200K mouse grey bus sale, I have been told by an owner of a POS bus that is is worth way more now since they saw that shiny grey bus on TV sell for a big pile of money. Doesn't matter that their rusty panel with a few camper windows cut in and a dead dog on the back seat is really only worth a grand in parts. |
A bus has to be *really* bad to be worth only a grand.
If you look at the classifieds with 5K in your pocket, you are buying a ratty project.
The actual selling prices are higher now than they were in 2008, both for ratty projects and for nicer buses.
Even if the 217K price was a fluke, we just saw a number of less than perfect buses sell for 75K.
Quote: |
Lots of factors driving the lower prices at Barrett Jackson, I'm convinced one of the biggest ones is the US dollar has strengthened against the Euro, UK Pound, Australian Dollar, etc... |
I agree. Very important. _________________ The Obsolete Air-Cooled Documentation Project http://oacdp.org/ |
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thom Samba Member
Joined: October 12, 2000 Posts: 5943 Location: Sacramento
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Posted: Mon Feb 01, 2016 10:29 am Post subject: Re: Whose 1956 23-Window at Barrett-Jackson bus is this? |
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Braukuche wrote: |
And the rusty beaters most of us drive will continue to hold value but not shoot up to the stars because likely the guys buying them to do these quick flips will discover that not all that is split bus is gold. |
You just need a little bit of "welder alchemy" to slap in some extra windows and a sunroof and bam! Gold! _________________ -Thom
1956 Single Cab
1957 Porsche 356A Sunroof
1957 23-Window Deluxe
1957 Mercedes Westfalia single cab
1963 Unimog 404
1965 E-Type |
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cdennisg Samba Member
Joined: November 02, 2004 Posts: 20278 Location: Sandpoint, ID
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Posted: Mon Feb 01, 2016 11:29 am Post subject: Re: Whose 1956 23-Window at Barrett-Jackson bus is this? |
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Clara wrote: |
A bus has to be *really* bad to be worth only a grand.
If you look at the classifieds with 5K in your pocket, you are buying a ratty project.
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Condition is one thing, but availability is another. A rusty, camperized panel full of garbage, no engine or tranny, sitting on a mountainside with a dozen trees in the way and full of yellow jackets would be worth less than that same bus rolling, cleaned up, and sitting in my driveway.
Virtually every bus I have bought has been incomparable to those in the classified section. Not for condition or rarity, but for the fact that they are not ready to ship to Europe.
BTW, I sold a pretty decent 64 standard project this fall, on here, for $4K. Sold quickly, and the buyer was well pleased. He came and got it personally, then hauled it back to Oregon. _________________ nothing |
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npbusguy Samba Member
Joined: February 08, 2006 Posts: 1658 Location: Budapest, Hungary
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Posted: Mon Feb 01, 2016 12:14 pm Post subject: Re: Whose 1956 23-Window at Barrett-Jackson bus is this? |
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crofty wrote: |
You don't drive a 100k Bus. |
Why not?
Driving a $100k bus is pure pleasure, but you drive them differently than driving a $15k bus. You tend not to care if the $100k bus only goes 52mph or if some guy in a rusty pick up passes you and flips you off for holding up traffic. Bias ply tires are pretty cushy and there is nothing like the sweet sweet sound of a split case transmission whining up to cruising speed.
I only wish I bid on that '56 because that would be a super fun bus to roll down the road, incorrect glass, tail lights or missing the middle seat kick panel or not and for a $90k plus buyers premium, it was a deal.
Man, I would rock that bus hard, by going slow and enjoying the ride. That is what buses are all about anyway, the ride and the friendships they lead you to. |
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j.pickens Samba Member
Joined: December 03, 2002 Posts: 9791 Location: Exit 7, New Jersey
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Posted: Mon Feb 01, 2016 12:52 pm Post subject: Re: Whose 1956 23-Window at Barrett-Jackson bus is this? |
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npbusguy wrote: |
crofty wrote: |
You don't drive a 100k Bus. |
Why not?
Driving a $100k bus is pure pleasure, but you drive them differently than driving a $15k bus. You tend not to care if the $100k bus only goes 52mph or if some guy in a rusty pick up passes you and flips you off for holding up traffic. Bias ply tires are pretty cushy and there is nothing like the sweet sweet sound of a split case transmission whining up to cruising speed.
I only wish I bid on that '56 because that would be a super fun bus to roll down the road, incorrect glass, tail lights or missing the middle seat kick panel or not and for a $90k plus buyers premium, it was a deal.
Man, I would rock that bus hard, by going slow and enjoying the ride. That is what buses are all about anyway, the ride and the friendships they lead you to. |
Thank you, Neil. _________________ Founder and Chairman Emeritus, ECMSAS
BBX BBXII and BBXXI Long Distance Award Winner
BeaterBarndoor wrote: |
i wish more people would actually drive their vws rather than just talking about what they have in the garage. |
Red Fau Veh wrote: |
If you've seen one sunroof swivel seat kombi, you've seen them all! |
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Busstom Samba Member
Joined: November 23, 2014 Posts: 3848 Location: San Jose, CA
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Posted: Mon Feb 01, 2016 1:25 pm Post subject: Re: Whose 1956 23-Window at Barrett-Jackson bus is this? |
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Adam wrote: |
Just listening to the broadcasters they sound pretty knowledgeable on the cars, but once a Volkswagens comes up and I hear what they have to say I start to wonder if the American car guys think they're full of crap as much as I do? |
Like when the '56 Vert went on the block earlier in the week, and the guy referred to the Wolfsburg crest as the "Karmann emblem," along with the dual exhaust and that, "if this '56 were a hard top, it would have a split back window." |
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